# Are accusations of raicsm/sexism/bigotry abused? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 14, 2018, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332 "2018-09-14T12:26:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332/61 "2018-09-18T23:28:53Z")
> [@etasyde](#): > > In short, the racism (or lack there of) behind a claim cannot be ascertained by the objective truth of the claim, rather it can only be surmised through an understanding of how the individual came to believe the claim was true. What if the knowledge comes by a deference to authority and thru no true critical understanding on the part of the individual who comes to the same knowledge as that authority figure who did his/her due diligence? Sort of similar to laypeople’s knowledge that there is an inverse relationship between space and time? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332/62 "2018-09-19T01:51:26Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > You think a major part of the problem is that people such as your coworkers–for whom you have tremendous respect–never engage in real discussion with the kinds of people that frequent this board. In you opinion, mostly what we end up with is situations like this where mostly middle class white people, many if not most of whom have never had any legitimate interaction with minorities as a true equal, have conversations with other white people about how bad another class of white people are. I think the word major is an overreach, I would replace it with significant. I wouldn’t say real discussion so much as immersion in african american culture. (I’m fine using African American in this context, but I prefer to use the term black when describing people). I think many people interact, get along with, and have minority friends and neighbors - but that is different than having a high level of daily interaction with a minority group on an equal footing. I think many people have good intentions, yet these intentions lead them to demonize others too quickly over unsettled, vague, and rapidly changing social mores than are not agreed upon by even the offended demographic and often rely more on an individual’s perspective than any agreed upon societal norms. A Tower of Babel if you will. And there is all kinds of racism, that is something I believe. There is racism that is hateful, there is racism that is unconscious, there is racism born out of simple ignorance due to things such a geographic isolation. There is also racial bias which is different than racism. To get more specific, I think that not all these should be treated the same. I have some other points, I’ll get to them tomorrow and also include the cites, graphs, circumstantial political data etc. that you requested - if I have time. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332/63 "2018-09-19T03:06:49Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > You think a major part of the problem is that people such as your coworkers–for whom you have tremendous respect–never engage in real discussion with the kinds of people that frequent this board. In you opinion, mostly what we end up with is situations like this where mostly middle class white people, many if not most of whom have never had any legitimate interaction with minorities as a true equal, have conversations with other white people about how bad another class of white people are. > [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > I think the word major is an overreach, I would replace it with significant. > > I wouldn’t say real discussion so much as immersion in african american culture. (I’m fine using African American in this context, but I prefer to use the term black when describing people). I think many people interact, get along with, and have minority friends and neighbors - but that is different than having a high level of daily interaction with a minority group on an equal footing. Are you serious? > [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > I think a major part of the problem is that people such as my coworkers, whom I have tremendous respect for, never engage in real discussion with the kinds of people that frequent this board. Mostly what you end up with is situations like this where mostly middle class white people, many if not most of whom have never had any legitimate interaction with minorities as a true equal, have conversations with other white people about how bad another class of white people are. (emphasis added). I mean, I’m glad you’re softening your statement; doing so makes it less absurd. But your eyerolling and moaning about how I misunderstood your point is pretty much at your feet in this case. > [@](#): > > I have some other points, I’ll get to them tomorrow and also include the cites, graphs, circumstantial political data etc. that you requested - if I have time. By all means do so. But if your point is that a significant problem is that some white people don’t immerse themselves in African American culture, suddenly we’re not so far apart in our views, and I no longer need cites for your claim. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332/64 "2018-09-19T05:02:25Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You know that’s an apple to cabbage comparison. Tsk! No, it’s apples to apples. I get that you don’t \*like \*them apples, though. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332/65 "2018-09-19T12:37:44Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Okay. Does it ever _work_? Has there _ever_ been a thread where accusations of bigotry actually shut up the person being called a bigot? Or are people so thoroughly inured to it that even in cases where the accusation is entirely justified, the thread just keeps on chugging? Often for hundreds of posts, [even when the racism is super fucking clear](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=862130)? I’ve never seen it actually _work_. > > This is another thing. There’s a huge fucking difference between “someone called me a bigot without reason (and I ignored it and [kept talking about how the real problem is anti-white racism _for 20+ pages_](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=859892) or [kept talking about how black people are dumber than white people for 35+ pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=824576))” and “someone called me a bigot without reason, and this led to me being assaulted/deplatformed/etc.”. > > The former just does not matter. Like, at all. It has literally no effect. I’ve had a former partner accuse me of racism when I criticized Islam; this was annoying but I pointed out how silly it was and it didn’t stop the discussion. It’s akin to any stupid rhetorical fallacy - you’re going to run into it from time to time, best to just ignore it and move on, and not do what fuckwits like Sargon do and turn a tweet with two notes into something that represents the entire left. > > The latter matters, but remains _vanishingly_ rare. I can think of a small handful of examples, which the right brings up without fail every time the issue is mentioned (if this were a common thing, you’d think we’d hear about different, more recent events, rather than the same few cases every single time), but, again, this is not a common thing. > > I feel like the OP is conflating the two things. “Shutting down debate” does sound pretty awful, and yeah, what happened to Milo, Murray, and that one Oberlin professor was shitty. But it’s exceedingly rare. Meanwhile, someone in a debate calling the other person “racist” and being ignored by everyone else? That’s pretty common. It just really doesn’t matter. > > And that’s the typical right-wing gambit - act like the common, inconsequential occurrence of someone calling someone else “racist” and it having no actual fucking impact is the same as someone being assaulted by protesters for being a bigot, and waxing poetic about how scary it is that our free speech is under attack by those evil leftists. And _it works_. This is a horrifyingly huge part of modern right-wing discourse. I don’t think that “shutting down debate” is limited to situations where you are physically excluded from debating. These are only the most extreme examples. Shutting down debate through accusations of racism is usually an exercise in thought policing. It doesn’t really work, except against liberals. But liberals are starting to develop an immunity to this tactic and moderates have been rolling their eyes at it for years now. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332/66 "2018-09-19T12:42:43Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > You are either being purposefully obtuse or are stupid and I don’t think it’s the later. > Saying that a race is better or worse at something inherently is clearly racist. On the other hand, in the video I linked, a sports scientist stated that the Kalenjin ethnicity in Kenya is the best in the world at endurance running, because of evolutionary advantages. Thats not inherently racist, but certainly can be seen as that. Some people would call that scientific racism. > [@](#): > > I use sports since ethnic and racial stereotypes have a long history in organised sports and still persist in many cases despite many having been disproved. There is also a long history of ethnic and racial stereotypes in education and intelligence that persist, in many cases, despite being disproved. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332/67 "2018-09-19T12:57:19Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > You think a major part of the problem is that people such as your coworkers–for whom you have tremendous respect–never engage in real discussion with the kinds of people that frequent this board. In you opinion, mostly what we end up with is situations like this where mostly middle class white people, many if not most of whom have never had any legitimate interaction with minorities as a true equal, have conversations with other white people about how bad another class of white people are. I don’t think this is that far off. Most white folks seem to understand racism in the abstract or from what they see in the news. Very few of them have had frank discussions about racism with minorities. It makes wypipo extremely uncomfortable. I had a discussion over the summer with a black friend about affirmative action where all the other guests were white, you could almost hear their buttholes constricting. The discussion was about politics and it meandered into a discussion about race for a few minutes and in those few minutes it became uncomfortable enough that we stopped almost mid-thought. Suburban minorities rarely speak frankly with their suburban white friends about race. I’m pretty sure that you can shut those fairly liberal white people up with accusations of racism. And they resent it. Then some of them take that resentment into the voting booths with them. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332/68 "2018-09-19T13:08:02Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Some people “see” more of it than others, because of course individuals differ on what are valid and invalid claims of racism. If one approaches it from a perspective of “[Other person] said is racist but I don’t find to be racist, therefore [Other person] is either hysterically oversensitive or a member of the uber-PC thought police trying to shut me down”, then one will perceive a higher percentage of claims of racism to be invalid. That doesn’t mean that isn’t racist (nor that it is); it merely demonstrates a rather narrow and self-centered approach to assessing these claims. In the aggregate, one false claim of racism is not balanced by one correct accusation of racism. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332/69 "2018-09-19T14:03:07Z")
```php ``` > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t think that “shutting down debate” is limited to situations where you are physically excluded from debating. These are only the most extreme examples. > > Shutting down debate through accusations of racism is usually an exercise in thought policing. It doesn’t really work, except against liberals. But liberals are starting to develop an immunity to this tactic and moderates have been rolling their eyes at it for years now. … That’s my point. It _never works_. To the degree that it’s common, it doesn’t matter at all. To the degree it matters, it’s vanishingly rare. So why should we care about the former, or treat the latter as anything but a very rare breakdown of acceptable norms? It’s a deepity. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332/70 "2018-09-19T16:08:22Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > ```php > > ``` > > … That’s my point. It _never works_. To the degree that it’s common, it doesn’t matter at all. To the degree it matters, it’s vanishingly rare. So why should we care about the former, or treat the latter as anything but a very rare breakdown of acceptable norms? It’s a deepity. To the degree that its common it can create resentment. Identity politics that demonize otherwise liberal people is a problem. Not all liberal male critics of Hillary are Bernie Bros, but this didn’t stop people from hurling the label at any young men that criticized Hillary. This stifled criticism but probably hurt her at the polls. People are cautious about criticizing Israel IRL because of accusations of anti-Semitism. This doesn’t actually lead to more support for Israel. Liberals have to be very careful about criticizing ANY form of Affirmative Action. Liberalism used to be a principles based ideology. It is now turning into a narrative based ideology. This is driving away moderates and independents. This may not be enough to make YOU vote for Trump or stay home on election night but at the margins it makes difference and the critical race theorists do not have a large enough voting block to ignore those margins. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332/71 "2018-09-19T16:52:52Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > To the degree that its common it can create resentment. Identity politics that demonize otherwise liberal people is a problem. Not all liberal male critics of Hillary are Bernie Bros, but this didn’t stop people from hurling the label at any young men that criticized Hillary. \*\*Who \*\*hurled this label at any young men that criticized Hillary? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332/72 "2018-09-19T23:03:22Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Are you serious? > > (emphasis added). > > I mean, I’m glad you’re softening your statement; doing so makes it less absurd. But your eyerolling and moaning about how I misunderstood your point is pretty much at your feet in this case. > > By all means do so. But if your point is that a significant problem is that some white people don’t immerse themselves in African American culture, suddenly we’re not so far apart in our views, and I no longer need cites for your claim. No, we are probably not so far in our views, we just have different ways in expressing ourselves. Probably our real differences stem more from our opinions on what should be considered appropriate when interacting with people who have views further away from ours. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332/73 "2018-09-20T11:00:22Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > No, we are probably not so far in our views, we just have different ways in expressing ourselves. > > Probably our real differences stem more from our opinions on what should be considered appropriate when interacting with people who have views further away from ours. Not clear on what you mean by that last sentence. It may be that you’re suggesting I don’t value civil discourse as much as you do when engaging with folks we disagree with. As for that, and I wanna be civil here, I see a different difference. Your initial contribution to this thread echoed a contribution to another thread: you dismissed ideas with an ad hominem. That is, rather than talking about the views held by those you disagree with, you imagined things about their personal lives that would render their views contemptible and ignorant. You did the same to me awhile ago, as I stated before, and it’s about the only thing I remember about you as a poster, given how shockingly wrong your assumptions in that ad hominem were. I don’t consider that sort of personal attack to be appropriate, FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![etasyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9f8e36/32.png) [@etasyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etasyde)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332/74 "2018-09-20T15:09:26Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > \*\*Who \*\*hurled this label at any young men that criticized Hillary? This insult came up in almost every thread from the time period in the election forum, and almost every thread from Reddit on /r/politics and several other boards. It still comes up often enough if Hillary gets criticized in /r/politics. It was a common phenomenon across the Internet. I’ll spend maybe five minutes but google pops up the term (searching this site alone) frequently enough. I’m ignoring illusions to bernie bro and using only the exact phrase, or variants like “berniebro” or “bernie-bro.” > [@Hey Bernie, go to hell and take all of your Bros with you](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/333): > > The kind of Bernie Bro “purity” you are saying NO to, is exactly what we need to avoid. > [@Why do conservatives so strongly oppose the idea of climate change](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-so-strongly-oppose-the-idea-of-climate-change/819713/109): > > And _ **“far-left”** _? There are some Bernie Bros at SDMB, if that’s what you mean, but I don’t think they’re a majority. > [@So, where did the Democrats go wrong?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/133): > > Another part is the Bernie-Bros- they didnt know how to campaign\* for\* their candidate, so they bought Roves lies and kept using them against Hillary, even long after the Nomination was sealed up. I got a couple in my FB feed, they are still going on how the DNC stole the nomination from Bernie. > [@Democrats Strip Superdelegates Of Power In Historic Reform Vote](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/3): > > It doesn’t really mean anything, but anything that’ll shut up the Bernie Bros is a good thing. > [@Hey Bernie, go to hell and take all of your Bros with you](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-bernie-go-to-hell-and-take-all-of-your-bros-with-you/809322/40): > > And unlike way too many Bernie Bros, I’d do what I could to stop Trump. [Thread Title: “Hey Bernie, go to hell and take all of your Bros with you”](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=849772) I can easily dig out more. OH, apparently, someone already had at the time: > [@CBS reflects on its complicity in Clinton's loss](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cbs-reflects-on-its-complicity-in-clintons-loss/771503/184): > > [Someone asked how Bernie would accomplish anything](https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1367879146556007&id=100000018040262&set=a.609389552404974.1073741831.100000018040262&source=43). > > [“FUCK BERNIE VOTERS. FUCK THEM ALL. GO TO HELL.”](https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1367879189889336&id=100000018040262&set=a.609389552404974.1073741831.100000018040262&source=43) > > [Douche bags, twat, swamp donkey, retarded cunts](https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1367879323222656&id=100000018040262&set=a.609389552404974.1073741831.100000018040262&source=56). > > [“Lying fucking cunt.”](https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1367879269889328&id=100000018040262&set=a.609389552404974.1073741831.100000018040262&source=56) > > [“Didn’t know you were special needs.”](https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1367879256555996&id=100000018040262&set=a.609389552404974.1073741831.100000018040262&source=56) > > [“We don’t need your vote.”](https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1367879223222666&id=100000018040262&set=a.609389552404974.1073741831.100000018040262&source=43) > > [I asked followers to support Bernie delegates](https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1367879166556005&id=100000018040262&set=a.609389552404974.1073741831.100000018040262&source=43). > > [“Are you and your friend old enough to use the restroom?”](https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1367879299889325&id=100000018040262&set=a.609389552404974.1073741831.100000018040262&source=56) > > [“We don’t need you or Bernie.”](https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10209409958557895&id=1592583099&set=p.10209409958557895&source=47) > > [“Bernie Bros go home!!! We don’t need you!!! #ImWithHer”](https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10209409960077933&id=1592583099&set=p.10209409960077933&source=47) > > [“We don’t need you. We want REAL Democrats!”](https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10209409960717949&id=1592583099&set=p.10209409960717949&source=47) > > And just know that this is an _extremely_ small sampling of the constant barrage of filth Bernie supporters were subjected to on a daily basis for a _year_. > > And this is in addition to the campaign and its surrogates insulting us at every turn. Deeply. Relegated to Hell. > > If anyone wants to dismiss the damage this caused as “hurt feelings,” then I contend you should expect to lose a lot more elections. ---
**Author:** ![etasyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9f8e36/32.png) [@etasyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etasyde)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332/75 "2018-09-20T15:15:33Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > What if the knowledge comes by a deference to authority and thru no true critical understanding on the part of the individual who comes to the same knowledge as that authority figure who did his/her due diligence? Sort of similar to laypeople’s knowledge that there is an inverse relationship between space and time? I don’t believe you can have an “authority” on racial stereotypes. It also depends on the nature of the stereotype being upheld by this “authority” and how this “authority” became such. Deference to the Grand Wizard of the KKK doesn’t excuse racism, for instance. And how can an individual who did not do his due diligence identify an “authority” who did? When dealing with people, deference to authority without critically examining the claims of said authority is not generally acceptable. Would you excuse a mother who poisoned her baby with mushrooms because her non-mycologist neighbor, the local “authority” on mushroom picking, gave her a mystery shroom and said it’d raise the baby’s IQ? ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332/76 "2018-09-20T15:15:38Z")
Humans can pretty much abuse almost anything, but that doesn’t negate the legitimacy of the problem itself. That is, in fact, one of the favorite tactics of naysayers. For example, enemies of the “Black Lives Matter” movement will triumphantly point out a false claim of police abuse as if that negates the fact that Blacks have been the victims of police abuse throughout the history of this nation. Sure, there are women who will make false claims to garner media attention or extort money, but that doesn’t change the fact that sexual harassment has been prevalent in all facets of our society. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332/77 "2018-09-20T15:31:58Z")
> [@etasyde](#): > > This insult came up in almost every thread from the time period in the election forum, and almost every thread from Reddit on /r/politics and several other boards. It still comes up often enough if Hillary gets criticized in /r/politics. It was a common phenomenon across the Internet. > > I’ll spend maybe five minutes but google pops up the term (searching this site alone) frequently enough. I’m ignoring illusions to bernie bro and using only the exact phrase, or variants like “berniebro” or “bernie-bro.” Nobody’s disputing the fact that the phrase “Bernie Bros” (and variants) exists and was levelled at Sanders supporters. But that wasn’t the assertion being questioned, which was that “any young men that criticized Hillary” were called such regardless of their views on Senator Sanders. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332/78 "2018-09-20T15:35:03Z")
I’m not going to say “abused”, or even “used when factually wrong”, but I’ll say “used when tactically a bad idea”. Pretend this is 1860. You could accuse Abraham Lincoln of having deplorably racist attitudes. You would not be factually in error to do so — if I recall correctly, he did not believe “the Negro” to be an equal in every way to “White”. As _Avenue Q_’s song says, everyone is a little bit racist; and many activists say that every white person is a participant in racism, that every male is a participant in patriarchal oppression, and so on. They aren’t factually wrong but tactically it’s more useful (in my opinion) to reserve the terms “racist” and “sexist” for attitudes, intentions, and behaviors — things that a male or white (or etc) individual can modify or ameliorate — and not to use those terms to refer to the fact of institutional racism and patriarchy and the fact that as individuals we are woven into those systems as participants and structures as beneficiaries of it whether we like it or not. “Racist” and “sexist” and so on _should be a horrible thing to be called_, something reprehensible, shameful. The terms can’t really work that way socially if people are told that they are racists or sexists because they are white or male. ---
**Author:** ![etasyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9f8e36/32.png) [@etasyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etasyde)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332/79 "2018-09-20T15:40:21Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Nobody’s disputing the fact that the phrase “Bernie Bros” (and variants) exists and was levelled at Sanders supporters. But that wasn’t the assertion being questioned, which was that “any young men that criticized Hillary” were called such regardless of their views on Senator Sanders. If you read the context of the quotes (from this board), that’s what’s happening. > [@](#): > > Another part is the Bernie-Bros- they didnt know how to campaign for their candidate, so they bought Roves lies and kept using them against Hillary, even long after the Nomination was sealed up. I got a couple in my FB feed, they are still going on how the DNC stole the nomination from Bernie. How did you read this as anything else? > [@AHunter3](#): > > that every male is a participant in patriarchal oppression, and so on. They aren’t factually wrong No, that’s **absolutely** factually wrong. You literally just included embryos and newborns in the blame for patriarchy. I reject the notion that it even exists, but even if you accept it, casually blaming it on babies is pretty sick. > [@AHunter3](#): > > “Racist” and “sexist” and so on _should be a horrible thing to be called_, something reprehensible, shameful. The terms can’t really work that way socially if people are told that they are racists or sexists because they are white or male. Yes! This is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332/80 "2018-09-20T15:53:13Z")
> [@etasyde](#): > > If you read the context of the quotes (from this board), that’s what’s happening So, when \*\*dalej42 \*\*said: > [@](#): > > It doesn’t really mean anything, but anything that’ll shut up the Bernie Bros is a good thing he really meant all young men who criticized Hillary? He didn’t mean actual supporters of Bernie? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-accusations-of-raicsm-sexism-bigotry-abused/821332.md?page=5)