# Are adult women having sex with teenagers equivalent to adult men having sex with teenagers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 10, 2019, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267 "2019-02-10T03:50:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/21 "2019-02-10T05:00:07Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Usually, when contemplating the punishment for a crime, or even if it is a crime, we consider the harm done. > > Is the harm (psychological) done to a 15 year old boy the same as the harm done to a 15 year old girl? > > Our experience is no…the harm is not the same. If the damage done is not the same why should the punishment not follow? > > I agree a power dynamic can be an issue. A (say) teacher or boss using their position to force sex adds a different dimension to the crime and absolutely should be considered. It is damaging in a whole different way. Precisely, whatever psychological damage there may be … Is likely different so why should punishment be the same. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/22 "2019-02-10T05:00:49Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > A 30 year old woman sleeps with my 15 year old son? Thats disgusting. Why? (really asking) For the sake of argument assume no power dynamic such as a teacher promising better grades…pretend it is a neighbor. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/23 "2019-02-10T05:10:05Z")
I think in some sense it’s a loaded question. Because if we are asking whether, _in general_, girl-man and boy-woman relationships are the same, I would lean somewhat on “no”: there are indeed differences in male and female sexuality on average. It’s nothing like as crude as the popular tropes of “men want sex, women want relationships” or “men value beauty, women value status”, but yeah I think there is a difference nonetheless. However, that doesn’t mean there’s no overlap, and every girl-man relationship is worse than every boy-woman: the individual details matter a lot. I can imagine cases of the latter that are terrible and the former that are benign. And likewise for boy-man and girl-woman: it’s all wrong, but the harm caused depends on how they hooked up, what the relationship was like, whether they felt free to walk away. So from a legal point of view, what do you do? Personally I am OK with equal sentencing even if I suspect one flavor of the crime to usually result is less harmful outcomes than others. Because how we treat offences is (or should be) based on intent. From the point of view of an adult woman choosing to engage in this kind of relationship, she is potentially betraying the same trust and causing the same harm as an adult man: if it happens to be in many cases that she doesn’t cause the same level of harm then that’s great, but that should not be a significant factor in sentencing. I will say though that I am not 100% committed to this position, happy to have the debate 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/24 "2019-02-10T05:14:31Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > So from a legal point of view, what do you do? > Personally I am OK with equal sentencing even if I suspect one flavor of the crime to usually result is less harmful outcomes than others. Because how we treat offences is (or should be) based on intent. From the point of view of an adult woman choosing to engage in this kind of relationship, she is potentially betraying the same trust and causing the same harm as an adult man: if it happens to be in many cases that she doesn’t cause the same level of harm then that’s great, but that should not be a significant factor in sentencing. Should a crime be judged on the intent or the actual harm inflicted? If I intend to destroy the world but only manage to trample my neighbor’s herb garden which crime have I committed? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/25 "2019-02-10T05:15:18Z")
Its a double standard that infantilizes women/girls while vesting boys/males with agency. Why is the boy regarded as having entered into the relationship freely and absent any coercion (or at least less than his female counterpart) yet the girl is somehow characterized as being as bad as raped and as mild as 'not wanting it", when going thru a mirror-image of the boy’s ordeal…I think it’s the exact same _behavior_ being exhibited by the male and female teachers, the differences in how each form is seen and thus treated is a result of differing social gender roles, expectations, conditioning and perceptions for men and women. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/26 "2019-02-10T05:27:27Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Its a double standard that infantilizes women/girls while vesting boys/males with agency. Why is the boy regarded as having entered into the relationship freely and absent any coercion (or at least less than his female counterpart) yet the girl is somehow characterized as being as bad as raped and as mild as 'not wanting it", when going thru a mirror-image of the boy’s ordeal…I think it’s the exact same _behavior_ being exhibited by the male and female teachers, the differences in how each form is seen and thus treated is a result of differing social gender roles, expectations, conditioning and perceptions for men and women. I think teenage males look forward to and seek out sexual encounters. I do not see why they would regard a 30 year old woman differently than a girl their same age when it comes to sex (ignoring the relationship…think one-night-stand). I think most males would chest thump and strut if they got lucky with a 30 year-old woman. Same as if they did with a girl their own age. I do not see a 15 year old girl doing the same. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/27 "2019-02-10T05:35:49Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I think teenage males look forward to and seek out sexual encounters. I do not see why they would regard a 30 year old woman differently than a girl their same age when it comes to sex (ignoring the relationship…think one-night-stand). > > I think most males would chest thump and strut if they got lucky with a 30 year-old woman. Same as if they did with a girl their own age. > > I do not see a 15 year old girl doing the same. Depends, there are some I know who were with with 30 yr old men at 15. 60 yr old men by 17. Still Brag about it , in a different way. Relates more to, I had a driver who took me around town and an apt in Miami on a main drag , I bought fancy dresses…etc , etc ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/28 "2019-02-10T05:39:39Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I think teenage males look forward to and seek out sexual encounters. I do not see why they would regard a 30 year old woman differently than a girl their same age when it comes to sex (ignoring the relationship…think one-night-stand). > > I think most males would chest thump and strut if they got lucky with a 30 year-old woman. Same as if they did with a girl their own age. > > I do not see a 15 year old girl doing the same. All that is evidence of the stark societal and cultural double standards and different realities of men and women that is brought to the table when addressing the issue of gender inequality in the perception and prosection of sex crimes against minors. Its an issue that we owe it to the victims of what such inequality produces, the kids (usually the boys) to fully bring into the light of day. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/29 "2019-02-10T05:44:08Z")
Parties at versace mansion at 16 …that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/30 "2019-02-10T05:52:16Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > All that is evidence of the stark societal and cultural double standards and different realities of men and women that is brought to the table when addressing the issue of gender inequality in the perception and prosection of sex crimes against minors. Its an issue that we owe it to the victims of what such inequality produces, the kids (usually the boys) to fully bring into the light of day. So is the prescription to pretend men and women are the same or to understand their differences when it comes to this? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/31 "2019-02-10T06:01:33Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > So is the prescription to pretend men and women are the same or to understand their differences when it comes to this? Huh? Thats silly. Of course not. Men and women are very different, biologically, and unfortunately, still pretty damn different culturally too. But we dont formulate harm assessments and calculate punitive and/or civil liabilities based on a subjective interpretation of an individual’s personal experience of being a victim. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/32 "2019-02-10T06:10:54Z")
All right, I’ll take up the same-sex question. If a sixteen-year-old boy is sexually mature, fully aware that he’s gay, eager to have sex, and does so with a thirty-year-old neighbor Bob, how is it different from a straight boy with neighbor Doris? I seriously don’t see how it is. And an underage lesbian with an adult, if anything, seems _less_ offensive than a girl with a man. (That’s something I’ve just now realized, so I’m not ready to defend it. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/33 "2019-02-10T06:12:14Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Usually, when contemplating the punishment for a crime, or even if it is a crime, we consider the harm done. So it’s a bigger crime to kill a 40 year old than a 90 year old diagnosed with 6 months to live. And it’s a bigger crime to steal $10 from a poor person than $100 from a much richer person? Notice I said “crime” not does it make you feel worse about it. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/34 "2019-02-10T06:17:50Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Huh? Thats silly. Of course not. Men and women are very different, biologically, and unfortunately, still pretty damn different culturally too. But we dont formulate harm assessments and calculate punitive and/or civil liabilities based on a subjective interpretation of an individual’s personal experience of being a victim. Sure we do. Especially civil liabilities. Even the determination of rape or corruption of a minor can be based on how the victim views the experience. Charges are often determined by someone else’s assessment of how prepared the victim was to actually give consent. Civil liabilities are often determined based largely on a psychologists assessment of mental anguish to the victim. A judges sentencing is often based on how they feel the victim was effected or the perpetrators remorse. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/35 "2019-02-10T06:20:17Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Men are encouraged to have sexual conquests. The more women they have sex with they higher they are regarded socially. They are a “stud” I don’t find this a compelling argument because that social attitude is not healthy. That status, especially when driven higher by having an adult partner, gives a boy a false sense of manhood and affects his relationships with women for life. And if a boy does have negative feelings about the encounter, it makes it that much harder to admit it. That’s one reason I’m skeptical about self-reports by former victims. Since a criminal complaint was lodged in the case cited, it’s not at all clear that the boy or his parents considered the harm negligible. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/36 "2019-02-10T06:24:30Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > So it’s a bigger crime to kill a 40 year old than a 90 year old diagnosed with 6 months to live. And it’s a bigger crime to steal $10 from a poor person than $100 from a much richer person? > > Notice I said “crime” not does it make you feel worse about it. 10 or 100 most places would be the same crime. Yet 500 or 5000 can be different crimes entirely. It’s not all just theft. Plus yes I’m certain if you kill a ten year old you will be getting a harder sentence then if you kill a 40 yr old, though both will be murder. Probably primarily because bc of the perception of defenseless victims. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/37 "2019-02-10T06:33:28Z")
That’s probably another determining factor here. The girl is viewed as being more defenseless. No matter how she feels others think she may have felt like she had less choice. A 16yr old boy is pretty physically able compared to most adults and probably stronger than a lot of 30 yr old women…much less likely to feel coerced. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/38 "2019-02-10T06:44:10Z")
> [@HelenGawn](#): > > I don’t find this a compelling argument because that social attitude is not healthy. That status, especially when driven higher by having an adult partner, gives a boy a false sense of manhood and affects his relationships with women for life. And if a boy does have negative feelings about the encounter, it makes it that much harder to admit it. That’s one reason I’m skeptical about self-reports by former victims. > > Since a criminal complaint was lodged in the case cited, it’s not at all clear that the boy or his parents considered the harm negligible. I’m betting the reason complaint came to the table has more to do with his parents feeling inadequate because the boy was living at the other house to get away from them. Probably didn’t want to come home when they finally wanted him back and they filed this as a vindictive move. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/39 "2019-02-10T07:06:02Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Men and women are not the same when it come to sexual relations. > > To pretend otherwise denies the obvious differences that exist. A breath of rational thought amid a torrent of politically correct group-think. Thank you, **Whack-a-Mole**. And yet still **Mr. Whack** is questioned. :smack: One wants to ask the doubters which alien world they come from; weren’t human physiology and human psychology taught before they made their space ride? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/40 "2019-02-10T07:10:55Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > Sure we do. > Even the determination of rape can be based on how the victim views the experience. > > A judges sentencing is often based on how they feel the victim was effected or the perpetrators remorse. Cite for the claim about rape laws? And the latter bit about sentencing is just that, sentencing. That takes into account individual factors that may have mitigating influence on the specific scope of the sentencing. Conviction, on the other hand, isn’t allowed such discretion by those tasked with finding it. Letter vs spirit, etc. The laws that define when a crime has occurred are not shaped by individual perception of the experience of that crime. You talk about rape. Well lets say a woman who is an alleged victim of rape appears before a judge and _by all outward appearances_ seems ok and well-adjusted. Are you actually saying that there is some legal basis for allowing a judge the discretion to give a convicted rapist in such a case a more lenient sentence compared to an identical case of rape only the victim was in shambles, simply because one woman is having a harder time keeping her composure than the other? No harm, no foul? That is childish and fucking loony. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267.md?page=3)