# Are adult women having sex with teenagers equivalent to adult men having sex with teenagers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 10, 2019, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267 "2019-02-10T03:50:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/41 "2019-02-10T07:17:44Z")
There are real, undeniable and consequential differences in the physical body structures of men and women. No one can argue that. It seems like, by the logic on display in this thread, that fact would directly influence how harshly or lightly we should prosecute and shame cross-gender assault, depending on the direction of that assault ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/42 "2019-02-10T07:33:04Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Should a crime be judged on the intent or the actual harm inflicted? > > If I intend to destroy the world but only manage to trample my neighbor’s herb garden which crime have I committed? Mostly the former; in fact I would argue that it should really _only_ be the former. However as a practical matter sentencing has to take into account the result because 1. The public would not accept running a person over being treated the same as (extreme) dangerous driving; there is still something of a desire for “revenge” 2. We can’t know what was going on in someone’s mind, so we use results to try to judge intent In terms of your example though, it simply sounds like someone with mental illness. That’s different – if someone breaks a street sign because they think it will save the world from the lizard men, the appropriate response is to give the person treatment for mental illness, same as with the herb garden. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/43 "2019-02-10T10:58:20Z")
I’d say the majority of the time they are equivalent. The only exception is that when a boy has a one-on-one exclusive relationship with an older woman, since society still treats men as higher-status than women, all else being equal, the boy is not entering into as an unequal a relationship as the other possible gender combinations. If the older person is cheating on an SO, or is just having a one night stand, I’d say they are equivalent, given the same level of enthusiasm in the teens. I’d be afraid for what the teen can catch from someone who likely enjoys a lot of casual sex. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/44 "2019-02-10T13:38:09Z")
The fact that men and women are “different” is a non sequitur. How are they different in ways that matter for the ethics of consent? Is one gender more emotionally and cognitively mature at that age than the other and thus more competent to give consent? If anything girls’ brains mature faster than boys’ brains do. (A functional difference reflected in changes in brain structure in which [girls are two years ahead](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053811907002340).) The ability to give consent is not a function of how physiologically horny someone is, or what wet dreams you had as a kid. It is based on having the individual having the cognitive and emotional maturity to be considered competent to give consent. Boys are slower to mature in those ways ergo if anything sex with an underage boy should be, if anything, a worse offense than sex with an underage girl. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/45 "2019-02-10T14:27:10Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > The fact that men and women are “different” is a non sequitur. How are they different in ways that matter for the ethics of consent? > > Is one gender more emotionally and cognitively mature at that age than the other and thus more competent to give consent? > > If anything girls’ brains mature faster than boys’ brains do. (A functional difference reflected in changes in brain structure in which [girls are two years ahead](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053811907002340).) > > The ability to give consent is not a function of how physiologically horny someone is, or what wet dreams you had as a kid. It is based on having the individual having the cognitive and emotional maturity to be considered competent to give consent. Boys are slower to mature in those ways ergo if anything sex with an underage boy should be, if anything, a worse offense than sex with an underage girl. If we base it strictly on the ability to give consent then two 16 year olds have sex and we must send them both to prison. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/46 "2019-02-10T14:32:53Z")
Indeed legally they can both be prosecuted in many states [https://www.ageofconsent.net/what-is-statutory-rape](https://www.ageofconsent.net/what-is-statutory-rape) ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/47 "2019-02-10T14:39:31Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Cite for the claim about rape laws? > > And the latter bit about sentencing is just that, sentencing. That takes into account individual factors that may have mitigating influence on the specific scope of the sentencing. Conviction, on the other hand, isn’t allowed such discretion by those tasked with finding it. Letter vs spirit, etc. The laws that define when a crime has occurred are not shaped by individual perception of the experience of that crime. You talk about rape. Well lets say a woman who is an alleged victim of rape appears before a judge and _by all outward appearances_ seems ok and well-adjusted. Are you actually saying that there is some legal basis for allowing a judge the discretion to give a convicted rapist in such a case a more lenient sentence compared to an identical case of rape only the victim was in shambles, simply because one woman is having a harder time keeping her composure than the other? No harm, no foul? That is childish and fucking loony. In the case of the person below the age of consent… Do they feel there was overt force or threat used? If so it’s rape. If not it’s statutory rape., Corruption of a minor or whatever term the state actually uses. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/48 "2019-02-10T14:45:40Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > The fact that men and women are “different” is a non sequitur. How are they different in ways that matter for the ethics of consent? > > Is one gender more emotionally and cognitively mature at that age than the other and thus more competent to give consent? > > If anything girls’ brains mature faster than boys’ brains do. (A functional difference reflected in changes in brain structure in which [girls are two years ahead](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053811907002340).) > > The ability to give consent is not a function of how physiologically horny someone is, or what wet dreams you had as a kid. It is based on having the individual having the cognitive and emotional maturity to be considered competent to give consent. Boys are slower to mature in those ways ergo if anything sex with an underage boy should be, if anything, a worse offense than sex with an underage girl. > [@Littleman](#): > > Indeed legally they can both be prosecuted in many states > [What is Statutory Rape, and how is it enforced and punished?](https://www.ageofconsent.net/what-is-statutory-rape) So do we apply the law equally here as well. While, because they are not adults they won’t go to prison but juvie. They may both still be labeled sex offenders. We don’t, and most would think it ridiculous to do so. Why, because there is an assumed element of coercion in statutory rape. Simply put people just aren’t as willing to believe a woman coerced a 16 yr old boy into sex. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/49 "2019-02-10T14:49:22Z")
Yes, it is as bad. Think about it this way: > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > For my part, if I think back to my teenage years, I am certain I would have been pretty happy if a hot teacher or friend’s mom decided to seduce me. Not kidding, I know it is a trope but it is a trope for a reason. But she didn’t. You’re imagining a _hypothetical_ sexual encounter that you _think_ would have made you happy. (As a woman, I, also, can imagine hypothetical sexual encounters with some of my male high school teachers that would have made my teenaged-self happy. But they were responsible adult professionals who rightly thought of me as a kid, so they didn’t.) In the real world, outside of the realms of dreams and fantasies, older adults who choose to have sex with teenagers instead of people their own age are usually pretty deeply messed-up, in ways that tend to mess up their partners as well. Also, sex is rarely a one-and-done thing where both people happily move on, especially when one of them is very immature. Usually, both parties have (often differing) levels of emotional attachment and expectations about future encounters, sometimes also mixed feelings about what happened, guilt, pregnancy scares, etc. The emotional fallout from sex, in short, is likely to be messy in ways that most teenagers are poorly equipped to deal with _even with people their own age_, let alone a deeply-messed-up older person. So the relevant question isn’t “Would you have happily had a one-time sexual encounter with that attractive teacher?” it’s more like “Would you want your teenage son to have sex _with the type of teacher who chooses to have sex with a student_, and then spend months dealing with the potential long-term consequences of such an encounter?” (I say “older adults” to exclude situations where, say, an eighteen-year-old has consensual sex with a sixteen-year-old; it’s completely different when it happens between people who are roughly at the same life stage and can, in the normal course of things, be attracted to each other without either of them being deeply messed-up. It might also be different in societies where relationships with large age gaps are expected and unremarkable, but we don’t live in such a society.) ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/50 "2019-02-10T14:56:46Z")
So yes the determining factor between rape and statutory rape can come down to any number of peoples judgement as to where the line is between coercion and threat. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/51 "2019-02-10T15:46:24Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > There are real, undeniable and consequential differences in the physical body structures of men and women. No one can argue that. And yet if UPS paid their male and female drivers differently, they’d get called out on it. Molesters should be treated the same regardless of their sex. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/52 "2019-02-10T15:53:21Z")
Okay, for those of you who say a thirty year old woman having sex with your fifteen year old son wouldn’t bother you that much… How would you feel about a thirty year old man having sex with your fifteen year old son? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/53 "2019-02-10T16:02:37Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > This is frequently used as an example for why when women claim that men are “privileged” they neglect to mention a few things. Like massive disparities in criminal sentencing, drafts for wars, how charities treat them, that sort of thing. > > As far as I know the main consistent way men get a “privilege” is they are more likely to be paid more and promoted at work. And also men tend to work more hours than women at work and don’t have to take months off during their childbearing years so the amount of bias may be less than it appears on the surface. Getting paid more and getting promoted more isn’t a “privilege”. It’s a privilege. And compare the number of people who have a job with the number of people who commit a serious crime or get drafted into a war. The ratio of men who face a situation where being a man is an advantage to the ones where being a man is a disadvantage is probably over a hundred to one. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/54 "2019-02-10T16:05:35Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Okay, for those of you who say a thirty year old woman having sex with your fifteen year old son wouldn’t bother you that much… > > How would you feel about a thirty year old man having sex with your fifteen year old son? In a thread where the topic is about how society views the older person, I’d say a better question is how would you feel if it was a thirty year old woman having sex with your fifteen year old daughter. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/55 "2019-02-10T16:09:56Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > And yet if UPS paid their male and female drivers differently, they’d get called out on it. > > Molesters should be treated the same regardless of their sex. And yet…We are making the same freakin’ point. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/56 "2019-02-10T16:12:19Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > And yet…We are making the same freakin’ point. And yet . . .yeah, _high five_. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/57 "2019-02-10T16:36:46Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > That’s probably another determining factor here. > The girl is viewed as being more defenseless. No matter how she feels others think she may have felt like she had less choice. And girls need to be taught very early not to be cock-teases to all their future male teachers by dressing like little painted whores. Just common sense, nay? > [@Littleman](#): > > I’m betting the reason complaint came to the table has more to do with his parents feeling inadequate because the boy was living at the other house to get away from them. Probably didn’t want to come home when they finally wanted him back and they filed this as a vindictive move. Your uninformed, and i gotta say kinda weird, opinion is duly noted for the record. > [@DSeid](#): > > The fact that men and women are “different” is a non sequitur. How are they different in ways that matter for the ethics of consent? > > Is one gender more emotionally and cognitively mature at that age than the other and thus more competent to give consent? > > If anything girls’ brains mature faster than boys’ brains do. (A functional difference reflected in changes in brain structure in which [girls are two years ahead](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053811907002340).) > > The ability to give consent is not a function of how physiologically horny someone is, or what wet dreams you had as a kid. It is based on having the individual having the cognitive and emotional maturity to be considered competent to give consent. Boys are slower to mature in those ways ergo if anything sex with an underage boy should be, if anything, a worse offense than sex with an underage girl. This is why i always end up coming back. For the occasional moment of lucid thought and pushback against the eschewing of reason,when group-think would otherwise be leading the discussion down a wormhole. > [@Littleman](#): > > In the case of the person below the age of consent… Do they feel there was overt force or threat used? If so it’s rape. > If not it’s statutory rape., Corruption of a minor or whatever term the state actually uses. I will type slower this time (I guess you’re just gonna have to take my word-i am typing slower-just for you). Cite for the claims re rape laws? Notice i didnt say “please blather on as if I didnt ask you the question I did”. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/58 "2019-02-10T16:45:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > In a thread where the topic is about how society views the older person, I’d say a better question is how would you feel if it was a thirty year old woman having sex with your fifteen year old daughter. Or where do we draw the difference between " I don’t like that" and a serious crime. If my 16 yr old stepdaughter decided to date , a woman, man, whatever … I wouldn’t like it. Shes more rational than many adults I know though. Would I feel like the 30 yr old woman needs to be a registered sex offender, lose all chances of a decent job, serve prison time … absolutely not. I’d feel she needs mandatory counseling, restraining order, maybe a suspended sentence. After reading that cite of mine seeing that the whole crime part actually hinges on coercion rather than damage. Whether we like it or not is really not what determines the criminality. I’m apt to base any criminality on the general dynamics of those relationships. Woman coerces boy ( yeah, doubtful) Woman coerces girl … probably some Man coerces girl …most likely Man coerces boy… probably some If your 20yr old daughter gets involved in porn you won’t like it, doesn’t make it a crime. The producers are going to record her with her ID , stating what she’s going to do is done willingly and is not coerced. Technically they’ll need to do this with a man too but they never do for straight porn. Why bc noone is going to believe a man was coerced into doing a porn with that young woman. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/59 "2019-02-10T16:47:09Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > Yep I would have been happy to sleep with a 30 year old woman at 15,16,17 or basically any age and I do not believe it would have had any different lasting effects than the fact that I was having sex with 15-20 year old girls at 15-16. Would you have been happy to have become a father? Would you be happy with 18 years of child support payments? I rather suspect that at that age you would not have given either a second thought and such youthful immaturity is what young boys need to be protected against. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267/60 "2019-02-10T16:47:53Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > And girls need to be taught very early not to be cock-teases to all their future male teachers by dressing like little painted whores. Just common sense, nay? > > Your uninformed, and i gotta say kinda weird, opinion is duly noted for the record. > > This is why i always end up coming back. For the occasional moment of lucid thought and pushback against the eschewing of reason,when group-think would otherwise be leading the discussion down a wormhole. > I will type slower this time (I guess you’re just gonna have to take my word-i am typing slower-just for you). Cite for the claims re rape laws? Notice i didnt say “please blather on as if I didnt ask you the question I did”. Cited, if you can’t find it in this short thread that’s on you, read slowly now. You’ll come across it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-adult-women-having-sex-with-teenagers-equivalent-to-adult-men-having-sex-with-teenagers/829267.md?page=4)