# Are all British names with "-bury" pronounced "bree"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 14, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366 "2011-02-14T21:59:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366/61 "2011-02-16T15:12:54Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > I just realised that I (and I checked with my wife, she does too, but I’ve never noticed this) don’t say the “shire” at all on the sauce. It’s quite simply “Wuhster Sauce”. I’m going to have to listen out to other people, but I’m pretty sure I’ve never heard anyone actually vocalise the “shire” on the end of it. The sauce only, not the county, of course. I’ve almost always heard it and refer to it as “woostisher sauce”. Grew up in Arkansas, parents from Oklahoma and Texas. > [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > (must learn IPA at some point). Here, let me help: > **[The sounds of English and the International Phonetic Alphabet | Antimoon](https://www.antimoon.com/how/pronunc-soundsipa.htm)** > > All the sounds used in the English language with sound recordings and symbols in the International Phonetic Alphabet 😉 This has been coming up enough here at SDMB that I bookmarked that just for me. ---
**Author:** ![A.Gwilliam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@A.Gwilliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Gwilliam)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366/62 "2011-02-16T15:50:37Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > North Yorkshire boy here - never heard Yorksheer in my part of the county; it’s Yorkshuh in all contexts. So given this and the other comments, either we have a Yorkshire/non-Yorkshire difference, a North/South Difference, or an A. Gwilliam/everyone else difference. Hm! 🙂 I’m leaning to the Yorkshire/non-Yorkshire thing at the moment. Why would one county name have a different suffix, unless you were using that name much more than the others? If you say “Yorkshuh”, how do you say “Hampshire”? (I ask about that one since the “root” also only has one syllable.) ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366/63 "2011-02-16T16:02:57Z")
It’s already been pointed out on this thread that there very many accents and dialects in this country. They change in the space of just a few miles. I come from Coventry where we have a different accent to the residents of Birmingham (twenty miles to the west) or Leicester (twenty miles to the north-east) So I can well believe that the residents of one part of Yorkshire pronounce the name of their county differently from residents of another part of the county. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366/64 "2011-02-16T16:17:13Z")
> [@A.Gwilliam](#): > > So given this and the other comments, either we have a Yorkshire/non-Yorkshire difference, a North/South Difference, or an A. Gwilliam/everyone else difference. Hm! 🙂 > > I’m leaning to the Yorkshire/non-Yorkshire thing at the moment. Why would one county name have a different suffix, unless you were using that name much more than the others? > > If you say “Yorkshuh”, how do you say “Hampshire”? (I ask about that one since the “root” also only has one syllable.) /hæmpʃə/. Rhotic British accents would add an r to the shire part, but it’d still be a /ə/. Occasionally you might hear /hæmpʃi:/ but only occasionally if the word were in complete isolation, like answering ‘where are you from?’ Same with all the shires. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366/65 "2011-02-16T16:22:23Z")
Oops, I meant /hæmpʃɪə/. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366/66 "2011-02-16T16:52:01Z")
> [@A.Gwilliam](#): > > If you say “Yorkshuh”, how do you say “Hampshire”? (I ask about that one since the “root” also only has one syllable.) The same. I say all the counties ending in shire as -shuh ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366/67 "2011-02-16T17:28:45Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > I’ve almost always heard it and refer to it as “woostisher sauce”. Grew up in Arkansas, parents from Oklahoma and Texas. Yeah, sounds like Americans vocalise the “shire”. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366/68 "2011-02-16T17:46:40Z")
> [@A.Gwilliam](#): > > If you say “Yorkshuh”, how do you say “Hampshire”? (I ask about that one since the “root” also only has one syllable.) I’ve lived in Hampshire almost all my life, and the answer is “It depends.” In casual speech, ['hæmpʃə] (but with an intrusive “r” before a vowel, so ['hæmpʃər ənd 'sʌri] for “Hampshire and Surrey”. If I’m emphasising the name, I’ll pronounce it more like ['hæmpʃɪər] but the final /r/ is hardly there except before a following vowel. My dictionary gives ['hæmpʃɪə] and ['hæmpʃə], in that order. ---
**Author:** ![Beniamino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@Beniamino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beniamino)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366/69 "2011-02-16T18:03:23Z")
Whoops. Having lived in Pittsburgh all my life, I naturally assumed it rhymed with Edinburgh. Turns out, not so: [http://www.rampantscotland.com/features/pronounce2.htm](http://www.rampantscotland.com/features/pronounce2.htm) > [@](#): > > **Edinburgh** This should be easy, but a lot of visitors can be heard saying “Edinburg” with a hard ‘g’ as in “Pittsburgh”. The locals pronounce it “Edinburrah” and all the other “burghs” (Fraserburgh, Musselburgh etc) have the same ending. The only time you might hear a hard ‘g’ is when a Glaswegian calls someone from the capital an “Edinburger”… Actually, it’s Pittsburgh that got it wrong - I understand that Pittsburgh was named by General John Forbes, a British soldier who was born in Dunfermline and would have known Edinburgh very well. It seems likely, therefore, that he intended Pittsburgh to rhyme with Edinburgh! ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366/70 "2011-02-16T18:05:35Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > I’ve lived in Hampshire almost all my life, and the answer is “It depends.” In casual speech, ['hæmpʃə] (but with an intrusive “r” before a vowel, so ['hæmpʃər ənd 'sʌri] for “Hampshire and Surrey”. > > If I’m emphasising the name, I’ll pronounce it more like ['hæmpʃɪər] but the final /r/ is hardly there except before a following vowel. > > My dictionary gives ['hæmpʃɪə] and ['hæmpʃə], in that order. Hampshire resident here, too. It’s definitely “Hampshuh” for me. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366/71 "2011-02-16T18:26:50Z")
> [@Beniamino](#): > > Whoops. Having lived in Pittsburgh all my life, I naturally assumed it rhymed with Edinburgh. Turns out, not so: > > [http://www.rampantscotland.com/features/pronounce2.htm](http://www.rampantscotland.com/features/pronounce2.htm) Think of it this way – “burgh” is just an alternative spelling for “borough.” ---
**Author:** ![A.Gwilliam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@A.Gwilliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Gwilliam)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366/72 "2011-02-16T20:46:21Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Think of it this way – “burgh” is just an alternative spelling for “borough.” Like a Windows error message, that’s entirely correct but in the context of pronunciation not of the remotest use! 😛 There’s also a one-off, which we keep around just to annoy them damned furriners: “Middlesbrough”. ---
**Author:** ![A.Gwilliam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@A.Gwilliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Gwilliam)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366/73 "2011-02-16T20:51:41Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Hampshire resident here, too. It’s definitely “Hampshuh” for me. So from you and Colophon, combined with the Tyke evidence, I’m getting that there is a subtle distinction within the UK for “-shire”; I very definitely say “sheer”. Interesting! I’m glad someone provided a cite for my pronunciation, though, so that I know I’m not going a bit mad here…! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366/74 "2011-02-16T20:52:48Z")
> [@A.Gwilliam](#): > > Like a Windows error message, that’s entirely correct but in the context of pronunciation not of the remotest use! 😛 > > There’s also a one-off, which we keep around just to annoy them damned furriners: “Middlesbrough”. which is pronounced “smog city” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366/75 "2011-02-16T20:55:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Anyway, America can be just as colourful with its names. Arkansas, anyone? Ar-can-saw with a hard R. I was born & raised in that fine state. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366/76 "2011-02-16T21:05:31Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Ar-can-saw with a hard R. I was born & raised in that fine state. So, what’s a soft “R”? I’ve head of a trilled “r” but not a soft of hard one. While I’m here, I’ll mention that there’s “no noise in Illinois.” Here in SC, it is mispronounced consistently. Also, most native Missourians pronounce their state as “Missoura,” but I’ve heard some Missourians pronounce it as spelled. ---
**Author:** ![A.Gwilliam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@A.Gwilliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Gwilliam)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366/77 "2011-02-16T21:07:12Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > Also, most native Missourians pronounce their state as “Missoura,” but I’ve heard some Missourians pronounce it as spelled. And is that still with a “z” sound in the middle…? ---
**Author:** ![Teacake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Teacake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teacake)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366/78 "2011-02-16T22:01:37Z")
> [@A.Gwilliam](#): > > So from you and Colophon, combined with the Tyke evidence, I’m getting that there is a subtle distinction within the UK for “-shire”; I very definitely say “sheer”. Interesting! I’m glad someone provided a cite for my pronunciation, though, so that I know I’m not going a bit mad here…! 🙂 Partly raised in Yorkshire but with an RP accent and a Lancastrian partner - I’ve never heard anyone (in real life) pronounce any county ending in shire as anything other than Whatevershuh. Number of syllables in the prefix irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366/79 "2011-02-16T22:11:32Z")
> [@A.Gwilliam](#): > > And is that still with a “z” sound in the middle…? Roger that. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366/80 "2011-02-16T23:43:58Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > Also, most native Missourians pronounce their state as “Missoura,” but I’ve heard some Missourians pronounce it as spelled. I don’t think that’s the case. It’s a regional split in Missouri, and I get the impression it’s perhaps 50-50, if not the “Mih-zuhr-ee” being more prevalent. ETA:[Whoa](http://missourifolkloresociety.truman.edu/Missouri%20Folklore%20Studies/THE%20PRONONCIATION%20OF%20MISSOURI.htm). Whole mess of Missouri/Missoura data to slog through here. > [@](#): > > For the generation of Missourians born after World War II, the only area of the state with a majority pronunciation of [ә] is the Northwest, the same area of strength shown in the AAA surveys. Table 3 shows that the use of \* has almost completely replaced [ә] among Missourians born during the 1960s, even in earlier strongholds of the nineteenth-century pronunciation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-british-names-with-bury-pronounced-bree/571366.md?page=5)