# Are all Domesticated Dogs Descendants of Wolves? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 8, 2004, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-domesticated-dogs-descendants-of-wolves/233059 "2004-03-08T02:01:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Biere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Biere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biere)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-domesticated-dogs-descendants-of-wolves/233059/1 "2004-03-08T02:01:41Z")
Are all current domesticated dogs descendants of wolves? Do DNA results confirm this? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-domesticated-dogs-descendants-of-wolves/233059/2 "2004-03-08T02:04:37Z")
Yes, all dogs are descended from wolves. And genetic studies seem to indicate that all dogs came from one particular dog-type that came from wolves, as opposed to having been derived from multiple different wolf groups scattered around the globe. [http://www.txtwriter.com/Onscience/Articles/familydog.html](http://www.txtwriter.com/Onscience/Articles/familydog.html) Where else would they have come from, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-domesticated-dogs-descendants-of-wolves/233059/3 "2004-03-08T02:07:38Z")
From the above site’s cite: > [@](#): > > Wayne’s team then focused their attention on one small portion of the mitochondrial DNA called the control region, because it was known to vary a lot among mammals. Among the sixty seven breeds of dogs, Wayne’s team found a total of 26 different sequences in the control region, each differing from the others at one or a few sites. No one breed had a characteristic sequence – rather, the breeds of dogs share a common pool of genetic diversity. > Wolves had 27 different sequences in the control region, none of them exactly the same as any dog sequence, but all very similar to the dog sequences, differing from them at most at 12 sites along the DNA, and usually fewer. > > Coyote and jackal were a lot more different from dogs than wolves were. Every coyote and jackal sequence differed from any dog sequence by at least 20 sites, and many by far more. > > That settled it. Dogs are domesticated wolves. OK, I guess I could have drawn the conclusion that dogs _might_ have come from coyotes or jackals. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-domesticated-dogs-descendants-of-wolves/233059/4 "2004-03-08T02:26:43Z")
I saw an interesting documentary about this (sorry that’s the best I can do for a cite). They claimed that dogs and wolves were one and the same. The most interesting part of the documentary had to do with foxes. People who raise foxes for their fur tried to breed domesticity into the foxes. The figured that if the foxes were tame, they’d be a lot easier to keep before they were killed for their pelts. Two very interesting things happened. First, it only took three or four generations for tameness to be bred into foxes. This leads one to believe that the wolf personality to dog personality transition happened much more quickly than had been previously assumed and that it could have happened many times all over the world. The second thing was that once tameness was bred into the foxes, they started to look different. Fur, size and shape of tail, ears and faces and body type immediately started to diverge. They were starting to form into breeds! This made their pelts useless so the “experiment” was halted. This leads one to believe that for some reason niceness genes in canines results in diversity in appearence. Haj ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-domesticated-dogs-descendants-of-wolves/233059/5 "2004-03-08T02:50:02Z")
You can read more about Wayne’s (from **Qadgop** ’s link) research [here](http://www.kc.net/%7Ewolf2dog/wayne2.htm). From that link: > [@](#): > > Dogs may be derived from several different ancestral gray wolf populations, and many dog breeds and wild wolf populations must be analysed in order to tease apart the genetic sources of the domestic dog gene pool. A limited mtDNA restriction fragment analysis of seven dog breeds and 26 gray wolf populations from different locations around the world has shown that the genotypes of dogs and wolves are either identical or differ by the loss or gain of only one or two restriction sites. The domestic dog is an extremely close relative of the gray wolf, differing from it by at most 0.2% of mtDNA sequence. > > In comparrison, the gray wolf differs from its closest wild relative, the coyote, by about 4% of mitochondrial DNA sequence (Fig. 4). Therefore, the molecular genetic evidence does not support theories that domestic dogs arose from jackal ancestors. Dogs are gray wolves, despite their diversity in size and proportion; **the wide variation in their adult morphology probably results from simple changes in developmental rate and timing** (bolding mine) With respect to that bolded part, domestic dogs are usually considered to be neotenous (that is, traits common in the juvenile stages of an ancestral form are retained uin the adult stages of later forms) wolves. This is probably a by-product of the “taming” process, which would also account for the morphological changes mentioned by **hajario** in the taming of foxes. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-domesticated-dogs-descendants-of-wolves/233059/6 "2004-03-08T03:51:52Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Where else would they have come from, anyway? Dogs and wolves might have had a common ancestor, rather than dogs being an off-shot of wolves. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-domesticated-dogs-descendants-of-wolves/233059/7 "2004-03-08T04:41:41Z")
Gray wolves date back to about a million years ago - well before dogs were first domesticated (~14,000 years ago), and gray wolves diverged from their ancestors probably around 2-3 million years ago. It’s highly unlikely that the two would have therefore come from a common ancestor. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-domesticated-dogs-descendants-of-wolves/233059/8 "2004-03-08T05:37:04Z")
> [@Darwin's Finch](#): > > Gray wolves date back to about a million years ago - well before dogs were first domesticated (~14,000 years ago), and gray wolves diverged from their ancestors probably around 2-3 million years ago. It’s highly unlikely that the two would have therefore come from a common ancestor. My comment was not on the ancestry of various canines, but on Qagdop question about the OP. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-domesticated-dogs-descendants-of-wolves/233059/9 "2004-03-08T05:50:20Z")
> [@Darwin's Finch](#): > > With respect to that bolded part, domestic dogs are usually considered to be neotenous (that is, traits common in the juvenile stages of an ancestral form are retained uin the adult stages of later forms) wolves. That documentary I mentioned said the same thing though I would never have remembered the word “neotenous.” It said that dogs were emotionally like adolescent wolves. This was based on the various noises that dogs make being similar to the sounds that young wolves and not adult wolves make. Haj ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-domesticated-dogs-descendants-of-wolves/233059/10 "2004-03-08T06:06:37Z")
I have heard that domestic dogs are much more vocal than wild dogs because they live with humans, who talk to them. But I don’t know how that applies to feral dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-domesticated-dogs-descendants-of-wolves/233059/11 "2004-03-08T15:49:55Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > From the above site’s cite: > OK, I guess I could have drawn the conclusion that dogs _might_ have come from coyotes or jackals. In the past, it has frequently been hypothesized that dogs, or perhaps just certain breeds of dogs, might have been derived from cross-breeding of wolves and jackals. The recent DNA evidence has pretty conclusively demonstrated that this was not the case. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-domesticated-dogs-descendants-of-wolves/233059/12 "2004-03-09T01:07:15Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > In the past, it has frequently been hypothesized that dogs, or perhaps just certain breeds of dogs, might have been derived from cross-breeding of wolves and jackals. The recent DNA evidence has pretty conclusively demonstrated that this was not the case. I clearly remember Konrad Lorenz differentiating between “wolf-dogs” (like his Alsatians [German Shepards if you only speak Merican]) and “jackal-dogs” (whatever breed his wife favoured[maybe chow-chows]) Meets Dog\*\*. Or maybe it was **King Solomon’s Ring**. My clear memories aren’t quite what they used to be. Makes life more interesting that way. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-domesticated-dogs-descendants-of-wolves/233059/13 "2004-03-09T01:14:29Z")
Typing skills deteriorate with increasing age… ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-domesticated-dogs-descendants-of-wolves/233059/14 "2004-03-09T02:41:39Z")
**hajario** : [QUOTE] Quote: Originally Posted by **Darwin’s Finch** [QUOTE] With respect to that bolded part, domestic dogs are usually considered to be neotenous (that is, traits common in the juvenile stages of an ancestral form are retained uin the adult stages of later forms) wolves. > [@](#): > > That documentary I mentioned said the same thing though I would never have remembered the word “neotenous.” [semi-hijack]: We ourselves are neotenous. [/semi-hijack] ---
**Author:** ![labmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f19dbf/32.png) [@labmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labmonkey)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-domesticated-dogs-descendants-of-wolves/233059/15 "2004-03-09T03:36:09Z")
[Yes, we certainly are.](http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/Neoteny_in_humans.htm) \> Notice the juvenile chimp on the left, the foramen magnum placement is very anterior. Gradually it moves posteriorly in chimp adults, but stays anterior in human adults. An example of retention of juvenile traits, or neotony. There are many other examples. Sorry for the hijack, I just always liked that photo. On topic: Yes, _Canis domesticus_ most certainly are neotonous descendenants of _Canis lupus_ , but I think thats pretty much been covered. The only thing I might add is that wolves and dogs are not really even separate species(despite the names), they produce viable offspring…IIRC wolf-dogs were popular for a brief period in the 90’s. My ex’s aunt owned one. Great topic. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-domesticated-dogs-descendants-of-wolves/233059/16 "2004-03-09T03:57:20Z")
> [@labmonkey](#): > > Yes, _Canis domesticus_ most certainly are neotonous descendenants of _Canis lupus_ , but I think thats pretty much been covered. The only thing I might add is that wolves and dogs are not really even separate species(despite the names)[…] _Canis domesticus_ is not even the current valid name of doggies; they’ve been renamed as [_Canis lupus familiaris_](http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Canis_lupus_familiaris.html), in light of the fact that they now are recognized as but a subspecies of gray wolf.