# are all emails copyrighted? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 15, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753 "2003-07-15T23:18:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bsanut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@bsanut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bsanut)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753/1 "2003-07-15T23:18:41Z")
I have a month-long Ebay email conversation that I’ve turned into a publishable (a semi-local cycle magazine wants to publish it) cautionary tale about the inadequecies of email vs. actually speaking face to face. The emails are largely verbatim, though names have been changed. My question is this: Even though these mails are only between this other person and myself, with no expressed copyright prohibition from Ebay or any forum, does this other person own these mails? Thanks, Joe ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753/2 "2003-07-16T00:08:30Z")
Yes. According to US copyright law, an expression of an idea is copyrighted as soon as it is “fixed in tangible form,” which includes electronic documents that can be read by means of a computer. IANAL, but whether the owner of copyright would have a case against you for violation of copyright varies. Obviously you can’t go wrong by getting permission, but I doubt that would be feasible in your case. ---
**Author:** ![starfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@starfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/starfish)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753/3 "2003-07-16T01:47:29Z")
I thought the author had to say it was copyrighted. If it goes out without a copyright statement, then it is public. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753/4 "2003-07-16T01:55:51Z")
Not true. [10 Big Myths About Copyright Explained](http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html) (contains useful links) [United States Code, Title 17 (copyright law)](http://www.loc.gov/copyright/title17/) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753/5 "2003-07-16T02:14:34Z")
Scarlett is correct. E-mail has copyright protection; the requirement for a copyright notice was dropped in 1977. However, unless the sender registered the copyright, the protection is limited. Infringement brings a court order to stop the publication; in theory, actual damages can be awarded, but that’s next to impossible to prove. You’re going to have to ask permission of the person who sent the e-mails. ---
**Author:** ![j.c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@j.c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j.c)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753/6 "2003-07-16T06:25:57Z")
This is also true for old love letters on paper. Just in case you were wondering. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753/7 "2003-07-16T08:16:35Z")
The requirement under U.S. law for a proper copyright notice was dropped in **1989** , not 1977. This requirement was eliminated when the United States adhered to the [Berne Convention](http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#noc), effective March 1, 1989. Any work originally published in the U.S.\* before March 1, 1989 without a proper copyright notice is in the public domain. - i.e., the United States was the country of first publication ---
**Author:** ![refusal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@refusal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/refusal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753/8 "2003-07-16T10:54:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Walloon \* > \*_The requirement under U.S. law for a proper copyright notice was dropped in **1989** , not 1977. This requirement was eliminated when the United States adhered to the [Berne Convention](http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#noc), effective March 1, 1989. Any work originally published in the U.S._ before March 1, 1989 without a proper copyright notice is in the public domain. > > - i.e., the United States was the country of first publication \*\* Not quite. Works published before Jan 1, 1978 without a copyright notice are in the public domain. From [http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html](http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html) > [@](#): > > U. S. works in the public domain on January 1, 1978, (for example, works published without satisfying all conditions for securing federal copyright under the Copyright Act of 1909) remain in the public domain under the 1976 Copyright Act. > [@](#): > > A work that is created (fixed in tangible form for the first time) on or after January 1, 1978, is automatically protected from the moment of its creation and is ordinarily given a term enduring for the author’s life plus an additional 70 years after the author’s death. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753/9 "2003-07-16T14:24:15Z")
**Walloon** is definitely correct that the registration requirement was a part of U.S. copyright law until the adoption of the Berne Convention, but I believe at least some public domain works which had been printed w/o a registration statement were retroactively given copyright protection. Anyway, to make clear, this side discussion isn’t germane to the OP; those emails are clearly the intellectual property of the person who wrote them, regardless of registration statement or any other action he may have made. Absent a waiver, essentially anything you write down is copyrighted by you. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![metroshane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@metroshane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/metroshane)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753/10 "2003-07-16T15:54:40Z")
Editorial vs Commercial intents also play a part. ---
**Author:** ![netscape\_6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8c91f0/32.png) [@netscape\_6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netscape_6)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753/11 "2003-07-16T16:15:13Z")
yes she/he owns them. however copyright has exceptions including the write to use it in a news story. since it is for a magazine you should be fine. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753/12 "2003-07-16T16:31:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by metroshane \* > \*\*Editorial vs Commercial intents also play a part. \*\* Not they don’t, except as one of many considerations when determining fair use. A newspaper has no more right to violate copyright than anyone else. And the courts have ruled that taking an excerpt of an unpublished letter is a copyright violation (Blame J.D. Salinger, who sued an author to published excerpts of his letters and got a ruling in his favor). > [@](#): > > however copyright has exceptions including the write to use it in a news story. since it is for a magazine you should be fine. Nope. The law grants no blanket exemption for newspapers or magazines. They’d need to prove fair use, and the Salinger ruling is dead against them. (Granted, news reporting is considered one of the legitimate reasons for claiming fair use, but it does not trump other factors.) ---
**Author:** ![dwc1970](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a183cd/32.png) [@dwc1970](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwc1970)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753/13 "2003-07-16T17:12:50Z")
I’ve often wondered if something as simple and mundane as a shopping list scrawled onto the back of an envelope or a “Back at 2:00” message on a Post-It™ note is eligible for copyright protection under the current laws. Certainly a line has to be drawn _somewhere_. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753/14 "2003-07-16T18:17:20Z")
Why? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753/15 "2003-07-16T18:48:13Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve often wondered if something as simple and mundane as a shopping list scrawled onto the back of an envelope or a “Back at 2:00” message on a Post-It™ note is eligible for copyright protection under the current laws. Certainly a line has to be drawn somewhere. If someone actually cares enough about your shopping list to want to re-use it in some context, then doesn’t that make it important enough to be copyrightable? And if nobody wants to use it, then what does it matter? But isn’t there a minimum copyrightable length? ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753/16 "2003-07-16T18:54:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RealityChuck \* > \*\* > > You’re going to have to ask permission of the person who sent the e-mails. \*\* If the OP has changed the names, does he still need to ask permission? And what if the emails are, as the OP says, “largely verbatim”? ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753/17 "2003-07-16T19:20:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*If the OP has changed the names, does he still need to ask permission? And what if the emails are, as the OP says, “largely verbatim”? \*\* Yes he still needs to ask permission. I don’t understand your question about “largely verbatim” nor why you would think that would influence the answer. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753/18 "2003-07-16T19:26:23Z")
Because it’s not verbatim. If it’s not the actual words, why would the other person need to grant permission? And if authors don’t need to ask people for permission if they change the names of characters, why should the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753/19 "2003-07-16T19:28:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cliffy \* > **Walloon is definitely correct that the registration requirement was a part of U.S. copyright law until the adoption of the Berne Convention, but I believe at least some public domain works which had been printed w/o a registration statement were retroactively given copyright protection.** Hold on there. I made no statement regarding _registration_, only regarding the inclusion of a proper copyright notice on a published work. Those are two different things. In fact, registration has _never_ been required under U.S. copyright law for a claimant to hold a valid copyright. **RealityChuck** , the appeal court’s ruling in _[Salinger v. Random House, Inc.](http://www2.tltc.ttu.edu/Cochran/Cases%20&%20Readings/Copyright-UNT/salinger.htm)_ did not introduce the concept of a common law copyright (i.e., of unpublished works). Common law copyrights have been recognized by courts for centuries. Instead, the court’s ruling in _Salinger_ said that biographer Ian Hamilton could not take the “expressive content” of Salinger’s letters without Salinger’s permission, and that even paraphrasing closely, as Hamilton did, constituted taking the “expressive content.” Essentially, the court’s ruling raised the “fair use” bar much higher. **refusal** , I refer you to that same U.S. Copyright Office circular to which you linked: > [@](#): > > The use of a copyright notice is no longer required under U. S. law, although it is often beneficial. Because prior law did contain such a requirement, however, the use of notice is still relevant to the copyright status of older works. > > Notice was required under the 1976 Copyright Act. This requirement was eliminated when the United States adhered to the Berne Convention, effective March 1, 1989. The 1976 Copyright Act became effective January 1, 1978. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753/20 "2003-07-16T19:38:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*Because it’s not verbatim. If it’s not the actual words, why would the other person need to grant permission? > > And if authors don’t need to ask people for permission if they change the names of characters, why should the OP? \*\* Surely you understand the difference between **paraphrasing** and leaving most of the text intact by changing only a few words (that is, identifying names and other details). In the second case, most of the original expression of the idea is still there. Similarly, there’s a difference between writing about real people by disguising their identity AND lifting their original copyrighted writings and publishing them under your own name. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-emails-copyrighted/188753.md?page=2)