# ARE ALL GUYS SELFISH BUGGERS DURING SEX? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 2, 1999, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688 "1999-12-02T19:04:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Flypsyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@Flypsyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flypsyde)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688/41 "1999-12-03T14:32:00Z")
I came in here this morning telling myself to let whatever was in this thread slide, because I don’t want to be a hypocrite about posts not being in the right forum. But I’m not going to. Okay, Mark, there will be no defensiveness or hostility. I’ll point out to you why I had problems with your post again; I don’t expect you to change your position, but I want to fully explain mine. You ask, in the title of the topic, if all guys are selfish buggers during sex. You then proceed to point out all the things guys notice about women during sex. Here, Mark, is the crux of my problem with your letter-_I don’t see anything non-selfish in the entire post_. Great, so you noticed your girlfriend did her hair. She’s done something for you. Now, what did you do for her besides notice? You noticed her painted toenails. What did you do for her? You noticed that she douched to alleviated that “natural odor” you don’t like. What did you do for her? The fact that you noticed all these things about women doesn’t make you any less selfish. If anything, I believe it makes you more so. Not noticing just makes you dense. Noticing and not returning any favors makes you very selfish indeed. I don’t know any in-depth studies of you sex life, and to dreadfully honest, I really don’t want to. Ever. Perhaps you are the best lover the world’s ever known, the most giving person ever in bed. However, there is absolutely nothing in your post to show us this. Now, about this > [@](#): > > To you, especially, I would like to point out that, professionally, I’ve had a woman ask me if the vagina of an Asian Woman is actually ‘slanted,’ and she was 31. I found it necessary to explain to a 29 year old woman that the ‘pull out’ method is NOT a good birth control method because of the male tendency to ‘dribble’ prior to climax and the ability of only ONE sperm to make her pregnant. Of course there were other things women asked me, professionally, like about an aspirin tablet being a birth control pill, and if the real birth control pills should be ‘inserted’ down there and if it was true that if the guy whacked off once prior to intercourse that he could not get her PG when he went off in her later. Sorry, but this doesn’t make you any kind of sex therapist in my eyes. Had any of them asked me, I could have told them the exact same things. This is not the hallmark of a sex professional; it’s simply a sign that you stayed awake during sex-ed in high school. I also don’t think it’s an especially reassuring sign that you use words like “joybuzzer” and “down there” to refer to sexual anatomy, but perhaps you’ve got a reason for that. * * * “Bodie, I noticed you stopped stuttering.” “I’ve been giving myself shock treatments.” “Up the voltage.” -_Real Genius_ ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688/42 "1999-12-03T14:46:00Z")
Flyp - AMEN to your post. I would also lay bets that his other word for “down there” is a “Woo hoo”. Tech - If Mark had actually written what he claimed to be writing, then more power to him. I am all for unselfish men in bed. However, if you read his words carefully you will see exactly the opposite (see Flypsyde’s post). His fingers say one thing while his ass says another. * * * \>^,^\< KITTEN Please tell your pants it’s not polite to point. ---
**Author:** ![Alphagene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Alphagene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alphagene)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688/43 "1999-12-03T14:53:00Z")
> [@](#): > > ALPHAGENE ignored everything And I would recommend that those of you just begining the foray into mature sexual relationships do the same. Look, Mark, my beef really resides in the fact that you pulled this condesending attitude towards your fellow board members. The posters here are as a whole highly intelligent and many of us have been around the block enough that we found your attempt to educate us amusing. You have to understand that your implication that women don’t know their own bodies, whether intended or not, can be interpreted as a smidge insulting to the female posters on this board. Ultimately, I saw your post as you just flexing your perceived prowess on the SDMB. Granted, you are certainly not the first poster to do that, but understand that you are not the first poster I’ve flamed for doing that either. * * * Back off, man. I’m a scientist. ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688/44 "1999-12-03T15:00:00Z")
> [@](#): > > ZETTE: I guess you also like your men to hump and run and not notice anything about you but your groinal area. Wow, he’s more astute then I thought. You’ve sure got me pegged, Mark. Once again, I think this begs the question: “Who moved the rock”? Zette * * * Work a little bit harder on improving your low self esteem, you stupid freak! [Click here for some GOOD news for a change](http://www.binghamtonpress.com/binghamtonnews/local/Sanews5.html)[Zettecity](http://www.angelfire.com/ny3/zettecity/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![SaxFace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@SaxFace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaxFace)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688/45 "1999-12-03T15:06:00Z")
I have about 20 million friends and am totally qualified to make broad sweeping generalizations ABOUT what women experience during SEX. Most women don’t just spread their legs and moan. We notice several THINGS about the physique of a MAN. There is something SUPER wonderful about a man who takes the time to trim himself. I’m talking about trimming his beard, moustache or mutton chops, his nose hair and his dingleberries. Before he mounts me, I notice the way he flexes his muscles. When he stands erect at the foot of the bed and wiggles his pectorals at me, I get all gooey. I bet you didn’t know penis’ come in all shapes and sizes! My friend Sally who is 54 years old thought that her husband Larry’s 4 inch pee-pee was HUGE. Not true, folks. I’m begging all the men not to drink any acidic beverages or eat any meat at least 12 hours before sex. It makes your semen taste TERRIBLE and a blowjob unbearable. I like the clean, watery taste - stick to drinking water. Now, I’ve got to go PRACTICE. Confidential to Mark: You ignored my earlier question!! * * * Formerly unknown as “Melanie” ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688/46 "1999-12-03T15:25:00Z")
ABE asked “Are there any health risks associated with douching once or twice a month (like after the period)?” (I’m sorry, I haven’t figured out how to quote correctly in this board yet). I just thought I would answer this-- yes, there are some health risks. Mostly minor, but I have been told by my doctor, as well as the nurse practitioner at Planned Parenthood, that as a general rule women should avoid douching. Rather than actually cleaning out the vagina, it pushes everything up, which can cause infections and seriously worsen existing ones. I just had my annual exam (sorry if this is too much information), and this was specifically addressed in one of the pamphlets they gave me. It said that while douching has never been proven to be beneficial, it HAS been proven to cause harm. As for the OP, I won’t touch it again, other than to say it does not belong here. * * * “It says, I choo-choo-choose you. And it’s got a picture of a train.” – Ralph Wiggum ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688/47 "1999-12-03T16:35:00Z")
> [@](#): > > As for the OP, I won’t touch it again He obviously can’t get anyone else to touch it either. ## No wonder he must resort to writing self-titillating crap on a message board. \>^,^\< KITTEN Please tell your pants it’s not polite to point. ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_Next\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@Girl\_Next\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_Next_Door)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688/48 "1999-12-03T17:10:00Z")
> [@](#): > > GIRL NEXT DOOR: Hmmmm. I suppose you prefer your male encounters to hump away, concentrating only on your vagina and nothing else. Not seeing YOU, not smelling YOU, not taking care to do anything for YOU, not being aware of how YOU feel, how YOU move or even noticing that expensive perfume you daubed behind your ears or under your nipples for him? You also missed the main context. Tell me, WHAT do you see, feel, smell, taste during the act? Nothing? Again, the main context is simply that a man actually does encompass the entirety of his partner during the sex act. Did you know that a guy will note the difference in your voice during IT? He will also subconsciously take in the VIBRATION of your voice through your torso if you talk while pressed together? I based my “Mark Serlin is creepy” comment on what I’ve observed from your posts (Who could forget the brilliant thread where you tied childhood obesity to their not being spanked enough?). Your observation (above) is based only on the fact that I said you were creepy. My observation is more scientifically sound. I win. _Creep._ * * * Leslie Irish Evans [http://leslie.scrappy.net](http://leslie.scrappy.net) ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688/49 "1999-12-03T17:21:00Z")
Posting Tip of the Day: 1) When posting a new topic, make it pithy. It should also \* have something to do with your post \*. 2) Try to be clear and concise. Other people are taking their time to read your thoughts and you should give them the courtesy of being as brief as possible. Now, back to the regulary scheduled topic: ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688/50 "1999-12-03T17:36:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Tell me, WHAT do you see, feel, smell, taste during the act? Ideally, I don’t consciously think at all. Everything becomes sensory. I like eye contact, because through his eyes I can see everything he’s feeling. A long, deep, unbroken gaze during sex is highly erotic, because of the feeling of mutual connection. I feel just about everything. I like to run my hands through his hair, over his skin. In an ideal world, I could pick my lover out of a lineup by touch alone. I can also intuitively feel exactly what he needs. I can listen to his moans or the speed of his breath, and adjust my movement accordingly. A little twist of the hips, perhaps, or raising of the legs a bit further for deeper penetration. In fact, I noticed that of all the senses you mentioned up there, you left out hearing, which is one of the most important ones. I doubt you listen very much, Mark. But I digress. I smell us. We could have just gotten out of the shower, or just spent the entire day moving furniture, but I don’t really care. The smell of two people blended together like that is just wonderful. In fact, and this may sound sick, but I love to tuck my head close to an armpit so I can smell his sweat mingled with whatever deodorant he happens to be wearing. I believe in the power of pheremones, and nothing turns me on more than that mixture of cleanliness and rawness. I taste several different things. I taste his mouth, which could be anything. Frankly, I really don’t like the numbing taste of a man who just brushed his teeth. I like the taste of a man who just smoked a cigarette better, and I’m not even a smoker. If he’s just gone down on me, I taste myself in his mouth, and that’s also a major turn-on. I taste his skin. Again, this can be the bland cleanliness of the just-recently-showered, or it can be the tingly salt of sweat, or anywhere in between. And, for lack of a real need to put it euphemistically, I taste his cock, which of course will never taste like Godiva chocolate, but I rather like the reaction I get from my lover when I do it, so I can’t get enough. It’s all about reaction, Mark, not action, and not thinking. It’s about making sure that you can look into your lover’s eyes and realize that there’s nowhere else on earth they’d rather be, and nothing else they’d rather be doing, then there with you. It’s about a connection between two people who love, respect, and cherish one another. It’s not about the little things. It’s about the one big thing–the purest expression of emotion, the things that make us human, imperfect, and loveable. That’s the ideal. When it’s not ideal, I think of being the meat in a Matt Damon and Ben Affleck sandwich. ---
**Author:** ![Flypsyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@Flypsyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flypsyde)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688/51 "1999-12-03T19:05:00Z")
> [@](#): > > When it’s not ideal, I think of being the meat in a Matt Damon and Ben Affleck sandwich. I’m assuming this is _after_ they’ve lost their wings, DB? Cause otherwise, where’s the fun? * * * “Bodie, I noticed you stopped stuttering.” “I’ve been giving myself shock treatments.” “Up the voltage.” -_Real Genius_ ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688/52 "1999-12-03T19:19:00Z")
After that post by Drain, I can’t wait until I get to Columbus!! Drain, you are wonderful… * * * Yer pal, Satan ---
**Author:** ![Valerieblaise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@Valerieblaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valerieblaise)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688/53 "1999-12-03T20:14:00Z")
First off, I think Alphagene and Flypside’s posts were right on. Mark, perhaps you don’t realize that you came off like a half-witted Hef in your original post. As has been said before, your title and your post have nothing to do with each other. As for all men being selfish during sex, my personal experience alone tells me no. Your post tells me nothing useful. You seem to believe that “selfish” =“only interested in tits and ass.” I’d be willing to bet that most people that have any sexual experience would define selfish to mean something closer to “uninterested in the other person’s needs,” and you’ve said little to show us that you’re even AWARE that your partner HAS needs. I think most of us read the title of the thread and caps not withstanding, thought it might be an interesting topic. Instead, we got your attempt at an advice column that was not only self-congratulating, but WRONG! If you consider “the Happy Hooker” a source of information, then you may just be hopeless. How is it that a grown man doesn’t realize that a prostitute is paid for the sex act alone? While one may be skilled in that area, it is NOT the same as a girlfriend. There is no understanding, no closeness, no affection. What a prostitute has to say about sex means very little to anyone’s sex life within the context of a relationship. And just so you know, the reason many of them use cologne near their genitals is because they have more than one customer in a night! They need to disguise the smell of customer #1 before moving onto customer #2! In addition, it’s not as likely that the customer is going to be performing oral sex on the prostitute, so it’s not as unpleasant if they DO use perfume or cologne “down there.” You seem to miss the point that if a man douses his pubic hair with cologne, the woman’s NOSE is still very close and the smell can be overwhelming. Your lack of insight about a woman’s needs and about the emotional aspects of sex were enough, I think, to set most of these people off. If you come in here preaching the Gospel according to Serlin, you’d better be prepared for some dissent. No one asked for your theories, but if you’re going to present them as the ultimate truth be prepared for the rest of us to poke holes in them. To sum up: No one seems to have a problem by men or even you being turned on by the visual and physical aspects of sex. Still, your observations DON’T make you Masters & Johnson, ok? If it’s your experience, paint it as such rather than preaching it to those of us also have some experience in the area. Your original post was insulting. If you found our responses insulting, next time send it to Penthouse Forum and leave us all alone. ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688/54 "1999-12-03T21:34:00Z")
OK, I know I posted several rude comments in this thread and in the pit…I meant them all 🙂 But, had I taken some time and effort, I would have posted exactly what is above (authored by Valerie). AMEN! Zette * * * Work a little bit harder on improving your low self esteem, you stupid freak! [Click here for some GOOD news for a change](http://www.binghamtonpress.com/binghamtonnews/local/Sanews5.html)[Zettecity](http://www.angelfire.com/ny3/zettecity/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![kellibelli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e480ec/32.png) [@kellibelli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellibelli)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688/55 "1999-12-03T22:13:00Z")
Just a couple of quick point… 1. Am I ever glad that freak isnt a doctor! 2. Guys, coffee makes your cum taste bitter, but hot chocolate will make it more palateable (this is of course only applicable to you guys who can GET a blowjob, so go ahead with your coffee Mark!) 3. What does he mean facial splooging? I dont speak baby talk, does he mean shooting a load in her face? Getting a faceful of her cum? What? 4.I dont fluff my hair before sex…if he does it right, it fluffs _DURING_. And finally, if the 'natural smell/taste of your partner (either sex) offends you…just get in the habit of a bath/ shower before bed…(preferably together). And I want tothank you mark…you provided MUCH enjoyment last night! We laughed our asses off in the chat room. ---
**Author:** ![Byzantine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@Byzantine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Byzantine)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 1999, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688/56 "1999-12-04T00:05:00Z")
God! I couldn’t fluff my hair on a dare. It’s three feet long and very straight. But, amazingly, my MEN seem to like it that way. I’m very happy to hear that little boys want it all big and fluffy like their favorite stuffed animal. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 1999, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688/57 "1999-12-04T01:07:00Z")
::deep breath:: Hooo-KAY! Observations coming (dodges rotten tomatoes for awful pun) but no positioning (DANG it!) pro or con… Mark’s post struck me as both honest and open. Having come to terms years ago that men and women are different, and loathing political correctness in all its noxious forms, I was interested rather than offended. This read to me as a very honest description by an honest sensualist. What turns on/off one person isn’t (I don’t think) the point. The point was _appreciating_ the differences, with individuals tastes left open. ::delicate segue::speaking of tastes and associated olfactory issues, there is a distinct and appreciable difference, ladies, between showering and bathing. Forget the douche thing; that’s barbaric, damaging and unneccessary. (Is this _really_ the time or place to waft in a cloud of Strawberry/Kiwi Personal Scent? No human, much less male (chortle!) will be fooled that a tropical drink is on offer.) {Sorry for all these parantheses. Looks like an explosion in a false eyelash factory.} Bluntly, clean skin and hair are human and inoffensive. Sluicing water over the parts that gravity hits first doesn’t really do it. Sure, shower. Do the shampoo/conditioner and shaving thing, a good scrub w/ body wash and puff. But take a tip from Japanese baths: wash off the dirt, and then **soak**. Even if it’s just for a few minutes, you’ll be amazed at the difference it makes. So, shower but then run a little clean water and _sit down_ already. Hey, do it for yourself first. You live in that body everyday. Besides, even a quickie soak in hot water can do wonders to set the tone for a day. And if something more sexual crops up, well… I dunno. Call me politically incorrect. (Please!) But I prefer men to be clean, honest, and _in the moment_. However differences are defined by individuals, credit is due to the spirit of the OP which was (I think) noticing and reveling in those differences. Lapsing _far_ into political incorrectness, wouldn’t female preferences for male partners be just as variable? (IMO, if it isn’t, it should be. I detest facile nouveau feminism that characterizes sex as an offense and women as victims.) Read any survey in “Cosmo”, or check out the typical series romance novel. Isn’t the stereotype just as limiting and superficial? Bulging pecs, washboard abs, great income, etc. –\>fleeing the soapbox, pelted by refuse Veb ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 1999, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688/58 "1999-12-04T01:16:00Z")
Damn. And here I sit, with washboard pecs and bulging abs. * * * Livin’ on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 1999, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688/59 "1999-12-04T01:51:00Z")
::delicate cough:: Uh, we noticed, Mannie. But along with your bulging pecs and washboard abs, you also have whiplash from that train wreck. You are still indubitably, enticingly _you_, but about your mobility… At least this isn’t hygiene related. Veb ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 1999, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688/60 "1999-12-04T02:02:00Z")
Read my post again, oh **honorer of slightly crazy economists**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-guys-selfish-buggers-during-sex/11688.md?page=4)