# Are all High Yield Investment Programs (HYIP's) Ponzi Schemes? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 28, 2008, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-high-yield-investment-programs-hyips-ponzi-schemes/461520 "2008-08-28T05:42:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Libre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85e7bf/32.png) [@Libre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Libre)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-high-yield-investment-programs-hyips-ponzi-schemes/461520/1 "2008-08-28T05:42:16Z")
Hello all, I signed up for SDMB specifically to ask this question in an unbiased forum. Any input regarding personal experiences or insight you might have would be very much appreciated. > **[High-yield investment program](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-yield_investment_program)** > > A high-yield investment program (HYIP) is a type of Ponzi scheme, an investment scam that promises unsustainably high return on investment by paying previous investors with the money invested by new investors. > Operators generally set up a website offering an "investment program" which promises very high returns, such as 1% per day (3678% APY when returns are compounded every day), disclosing little or no detail about the underlying management, location, or other aspects of how money is to be inv... The wikipedia entry indicates that all HYIPs are “ponzi schemes” and that some individuals invest time after time, always to lose, due to a gambling compulsion. I am curious to know if this is absolutely true, or, to anyone’s knowledge, if there are any ethical programs that actually work. Thank you. ~Libre~ ---
**Author:** ![Libre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85e7bf/32.png) [@Libre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Libre)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-high-yield-investment-programs-hyips-ponzi-schemes/461520/2 "2008-08-28T05:45:46Z")
Yaaargh. I must apologize… I think I should have posted this in the “In My Humble Opinion” forum. Moderators, please switch forums if necessary. Sorry, ~Libre~ ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-high-yield-investment-programs-hyips-ponzi-schemes/461520/3 "2008-08-28T06:17:39Z")
\ You got it. GQ \> IMHO \ ---
**Author:** ![Libre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85e7bf/32.png) [@Libre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Libre)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-high-yield-investment-programs-hyips-ponzi-schemes/461520/4 "2008-08-28T06:20:21Z")
Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-high-yield-investment-programs-hyips-ponzi-schemes/461520/5 "2008-08-28T10:05:58Z")
It seems like a semantic issue of sorts. The ethical investment vehicles have adopted names that (arguably) better describe what they are actually investing in, while the unethical ones have to use a hand-waving name like “High-Yield Investment Program” that avoids any specifics that would either make their ponzi-ositｙ obvious, or be outright falsehoods. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-high-yield-investment-programs-hyips-ponzi-schemes/461520/6 "2008-08-28T22:56:39Z")
It’s fairly easy to devise an investment strategy that can have a high yield. But it will always have high risk as well. Just go buy some cheap options that are way out of the money. Or, hell, lottery tickets. There is no such thing as a low-risk investment that generates the kinds of returns that those things advertise (which are so laughably high that I wonder what people were thinking). Any “risk free” investment that claims to return much more than, say, T-bills, is a scam. They’re lying about the risk, the returns, or both. ---
**Author:** ![Mongo\_Ponton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Mongo\_Ponton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mongo_Ponton)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-high-yield-investment-programs-hyips-ponzi-schemes/461520/7 "2008-08-28T23:37:43Z")
The program operators are probably making a very high yield and don’t seem to be taking to much risk. You’re just on the wrong side of the fence! ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-high-yield-investment-programs-hyips-ponzi-schemes/461520/8 "2008-08-29T00:11:11Z")
[QUOTE=Mongo Ponton] The program operators are probably making a very high yield and don’t seem to be taking to much risk. You’re just on the wrong side of the fence! [/QUOTE] There is so much more truth to this statement than probably **Mongo** even intended. There are investment funds and vehicles that are returning more than the designers ever intended. Those investment vehicles don’t need to advertise. Outperforming funds are probably closed to new investors. Think about it, what is in it for anybody for investment institution to do mass advertising for a proven formula? If you have the keys to the cash register are you going to sell copies to any yokel that comes along? If you know that it has already been emptied, yes you will. If it’s a cash cow you are going to protect it by allotting keys to as few people as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Libre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85e7bf/32.png) [@Libre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Libre)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-high-yield-investment-programs-hyips-ponzi-schemes/461520/9 "2008-08-29T00:11:22Z")
That was hilarious, Mongo Ponto! The way the scam goes, I believe, is to have people post on various HYIP forums (either happy early investors or shills) thereby gaining apparent legitimacy, appealing to the naive or those who want to get in on the bottom floor and get out quickly. Many HYIPs offer 0.95-1% over 5 business days, etc, but they take advantage of human greed and gullibility by offering “3.5% over 250 business days”, etc. As for real transparency - unless you are getting a wholesale discount somewhere, why tell the public exactly what you are doing when you could just quietly make money doing what you’re doing by yourself - unless perhaps you are getting a wholesale discount. Either way, it would be hard to separate the bad (which probably far, far outnumber the good), so, thanks to the SDMB, I’m out. I appreciate everyone’s replies. ~Libre~ ---
**Author:** ![Libre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85e7bf/32.png) [@Libre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Libre)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-high-yield-investment-programs-hyips-ponzi-schemes/461520/10 "2008-08-29T00:13:10Z")
Exactly, Spartydog. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-high-yield-investment-programs-hyips-ponzi-schemes/461520/11 "2008-08-29T00:28:08Z")
[QUOTE=iamthewalrus(:3=] There is no such thing as a low-risk investment that generates the kinds of returns that those things advertise (which are so laughably high that I wonder what people were thinking). Any “risk free” investment that claims to return much more than, say, T-bills, is a scam. They’re lying about the risk, the returns, or both. [/QUOTE] I beg to differ. My Rumplestiltskin program requires practically no capital outlay, and you get GOLD, for Zeus’s sake. GOLD. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-high-yield-investment-programs-hyips-ponzi-schemes/461520/12 "2008-08-29T00:39:22Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] I beg to differ. My Rumplestiltskin program requires practically no capital outlay, and you get GOLD, for Zeus’s sake. GOLD. [/QUOTE] Cash (or in your case, gold) advances don’t count. Even for children as cute as yours. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-high-yield-investment-programs-hyips-ponzi-schemes/461520/15 "2014-05-21T11:42:50Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > … make their ponzi-ositｙ obvious, … I’m curious about the ‘ｙ’ here. Is that what happens to 'y’s when they’re six years old? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-high-yield-investment-programs-hyips-ponzi-schemes/461520/16 "2014-05-21T12:00:27Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’m curious about the ‘ｙ’ here. Is that what happens to 'y’s when they’re six years old? Zombie thread revived by possible spammer. The poster you are attempting to converse with hasn’t posted here in a year and a half. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-high-yield-investment-programs-hyips-ponzi-schemes/461520/17 "2014-05-21T12:18:26Z")
I think he knows that, given the fact he mentions “six years old” in the very post you quoted. It’s not so much a question for the poster of that particular post, as it is for anyone who might know what software weirdness might cause the letter “y” to be displayed in that way. I’m curious about it, too! ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-high-yield-investment-programs-hyips-ponzi-schemes/461520/18 "2014-05-21T19:54:14Z")
It’s obviously a different font. Looks like MS Gothic. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-high-yield-investment-programs-hyips-ponzi-schemes/461520/19 "2014-05-21T20:26:39Z")
When I pasted this -------\> itｙ into Libre Office, the last character was IDd as SimSun font. That’s the MS Windows version of the Mainland Chinese standardized Ming typeface. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-high-yield-investment-programs-hyips-ponzi-schemes/461520/21 "2014-09-23T07:01:29Z")
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