# Are all India Pale Ales (IPAs) this bitter? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 27, 2012, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-india-pale-ales-ipas-this-bitter/616933 "2012-03-27T06:14:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-india-pale-ales-ipas-this-bitter/616933/41 "2012-06-05T19:30:54Z")
Off topic, but what is it with the popularity of ales? Do any micros make German style lagers/beers? I know tastes change and all but it seems to have been a hops contest for many years. I have nothing against hops (Dogfish Head 90 and Troeg’s Nugget Nectar come to mind) but in the summer a nice, cold Warsteiner or similar does the trick. Any micro suggestions in that vein? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-india-pale-ales-ipas-this-bitter/616933/42 "2012-06-05T19:43:07Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Off topic, but what is it with the popularity of ales? Do any micros make German style lagers/beers? I know tastes change and all but it seems to have been a hops contest for many years. I have nothing against hops (Dogfish Head 90 and Troeg’s Nugget Nectar come to mind) but in the summer a nice, cold Warsteiner or similar does the trick. Any micro suggestions in that vein? Could you be more specific? Warsteiner makes a pilsner, a dunkel and a hefeweisen. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-india-pale-ales-ipas-this-bitter/616933/43 "2012-06-05T19:45:10Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Could you be more specific? Warsteiner makes a pilsner, a dunkel and a hefeweisen. Presumably, only one (or two at most) of those is a lager. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-india-pale-ales-ipas-this-bitter/616933/44 "2012-06-05T20:11:51Z")
Lager just means “to store.” The pils and dunkel are lagers. Most micros make ales because they are ready to serve as soon as fermentation is over. From the bright tank through a filter and into the taps. You don’t waste any money having your beer sit around aging. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-india-pale-ales-ipas-this-bitter/616933/45 "2012-06-05T21:06:55Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Off topic, but what is it with the popularity of ales? Do any micros make German style lagers/beers? I know tastes change and all but it seems to have been a hops contest for many years. I have nothing against hops (Dogfish Head 90 and Troeg’s Nugget Nectar come to mind) but in the summer a nice, cold Warsteiner or similar does the trick. Any micro suggestions in that vein? I’m not sure how widely they’re distributed in the rest of the country, but the Bayern Brewery in Missoula, MT is run by an actual bonafide German and has been making mostly German-style beers since the 80’s. They have a really good pilsner, a couple of good hefeweitzens and a very tasty dark lager that is unfortunately draft-only. I know you can find their beers in Seattle, and obviously Montana, but I’m not sure about anywhere else. New Belgium currently has a pilsner that’s pretty good and should be easy to find. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-india-pale-ales-ipas-this-bitter/616933/46 "2012-06-06T18:44:55Z")
OK, I guess pilsner style is what I meant. German Lowenbrau, DAB, Pilsner Urquell etc. There just don’t seem to be many micros making them. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-india-pale-ales-ipas-this-bitter/616933/47 "2012-06-06T18:57:49Z")
**silenus** had your answer. Lagering takes more time, tying up fermentation tanks that could be used for other beers. It also requires lower temperatures, and refrigeration is expensive. The final nail in the coffin is that Pilsners are tricky. The style calls for fairly neutral yeasts, low bitterness, and simple grain bills, so there is nowhere to hide any mistakes. The robust flavors of a stout or IPA, for example, can be used to disguise flaws in your process, a pilsner is not as forgiving. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-india-pale-ales-ipas-this-bitter/616933/48 "2012-06-06T19:03:40Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > OK, I guess pilsner style is what I meant. German Lowenbrau, DAB, Pilsner Urquell etc. There just don’t seem to be many micros making them. Maybe you’re just not sure what to look for. Sam Adams makes 3 different pilsners. Red Hook has a pilsner, Harpoon has a dunkel. Boulevard has one - most largish microbrews have a pilsner. Small local places will usually put out a summer seasonal pilsner and call it a “session beer”. (Actually, a “session beer” is something roughly defined as anything under 5% ABV, but you typically find them also being a pilsner.) ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-india-pale-ales-ipas-this-bitter/616933/49 "2012-06-06T19:20:04Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Off topic, but what is it with the popularity of ales? Do any micros make German style lagers/beers? I know tastes change and all but it seems to have been a hops contest for many years. I have nothing against hops (Dogfish Head 90 and Troeg’s Nugget Nectar come to mind) but in the summer a nice, cold Warsteiner or similar does the trick. Any micro suggestions in that vein? Saint Arnold’s current seasonal brew is [Summer Pils](http://www.saintarnold.com/beers/summer.html). > [@](#): > > A true bohemian-style pilsner. Crisp and refreshing, this beer is perfect for a hot summer day. Saint Arnold Summer Pils has a delicate, sweet malt taste complemented by an abundant hop aroma and flavor. This beer is brewed with fine German malt, and a copious quantity of “noble” hops imported from the Czech Republic. Among their [other selections](http://www.saintarnold.com/beers/index.html), Fancy Lawnmower is also designed for quaffing in our hot, steamy summers (and autumns & springs). Elissa IPA & Endeavour are the only extra-hoppy options… I second the suggestion to look for “session” beers. These are balanced brews with reasonable alcohol content for those occasions when you want to toss back a few. (Some of the hop monsters & other exotic options have enough alcohol to lay you low.) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-india-pale-ales-ipas-this-bitter/616933/50 "2012-06-06T19:20:40Z")
> [@August\_West](#): > > **silenus** had your answer. Lagering takes more time, tying up fermentation tanks that could be used for other beers. It also requires lower temperatures, and refrigeration is expensive. The final nail in the coffin is that Pilsners are tricky. The style calls for fairly neutral yeasts, low bitterness, and simple grain bills, so there is nowhere to hide any mistakes. The robust flavors of a stout or IPA, for example, can be used to disguise flaws in your process, a pilsner is not as forgiving. Hence my enormous admiration for the brewers at Budweiser. I absolutely hate the beer, but the brewers have to be perfect every time. There is nothing to hide behind. Whereas with an IPA you can be off a little bit and nobody will notice. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-india-pale-ales-ipas-this-bitter/616933/51 "2012-06-06T19:38:17Z")
Eh - to each his own, but I don’t think I’ve ever had an IPA I really liked. Bitterness doesn’t appeal to me, and nor do the floral notes. I much prefer the heavier flavors of a good stout of porter - DuckRabbit’s Milk Stout is pretty nearly my ideal session beer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-india-pale-ales-ipas-this-bitter/616933.md?page=2)