# Are all languages phonetic except for English? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 19, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853 "2011-09-19T19:03:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853/21 "2011-09-20T04:37:24Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > If you count Chinese characters/Kanji, then yes. Dear God, yes. Oh god, why? Why!? It burns… The flash cards, the goddamn vocabulary flash cards… _Goes into a state of gibbering PTSD madness_ ---
**Author:** ![ModernPrimate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@ModernPrimate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ModernPrimate)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853/22 "2011-09-20T04:47:02Z")
This has to be the most ridiculous topic I’ve ever seen on SD. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853/23 "2011-09-20T04:50:05Z")
> [@Greg\_Charles](#): > > So other languages, notably French, has homophones. But do they have homographs that aren’t also homophones? I can’t think of one for now, but they must exist. I’ll tell you when I find one. By the way: > [@Greg\_Charles](#): > > Close the door that’s close to the street. I’d pronounce both “close” the same way in that sentence; am I wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853/24 "2011-09-20T04:51:45Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > I’d pronounce both “close” the same way in that sentence; am I wrong? Cloze the door that’s clohss to the street. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853/25 "2011-09-20T04:52:18Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > This has to be the most ridiculous topic I’ve ever seen on SD. Join date: Sept 2011. :dubious: Counterpoint: [Is it possible to get your testicles waxed?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=252770) ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853/26 "2011-09-20T05:05:29Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Cloze the door that’s clohss to the street. Uh, I’d pronounce both like your first one. Does it vary from dialect to dialect? ---
**Author:** ![ModernPrimate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@ModernPrimate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ModernPrimate)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853/27 "2011-09-20T05:19:59Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Join date: Sept 2011. :dubious: > Counterpoint: [Is it possible to get your testicles waxed?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=252770) Hush lol. 😉 Nothing inaccurate with what I said. 🙂 But “all languages phoenetic except for English”? Like out of the many thousands of langauges that English would be the only one that isn’t phoenetic most of the time? He learned the Russian and Greek _alphabets_ and they also “seem to be phoenetic”… he makes that conclusion from learning their alphabets…??? 95%+ of English is completely phonetic anyway. French has many of the exact same words as English. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853/28 "2011-09-20T05:21:33Z")
Another way to pose the question might be: How unambiguous is a written language as to pronunciation? Thai is pretty good, but there are exceptions, for examples: [ul] [li] time = เวลา = E V L A = Vela[/li][li] empty = เปล่า = E P L A = Plao[/li][li] nature = ธรรมชาติ = Dh R R M Ch A T I = Thamachat[/li][/ul] Listed are English translation, Thai spelling, letter-by-letter transliteration of the Thai spelling, rough rendering of pronunciation. The words for time and empty are 2- and 1-syllable respectively, but this isn’t clear from the spelling, the two vowels forming a diphthong in the second example. The third example (nature = ธรรมชาติ) has three distinct spelling oddities: [ul][li] Thai doesn’t have the phonemes Bh or Dh, but still has consonants borrowed from Sanskrit that are often transliterated that way. The proper name of the present King (Bhumipol) is an example.[/li][li] When R is doubled it ceases to be an R, becoming a schwa instead![/li][li] The final vowel (I) is silent. (In some cases these silent vowels lead to combinations which are otherwise orthographically impossible.)[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853/29 "2011-09-20T05:38:43Z")
You pronounce the nearby close with a z sound? I didn’t think that varied by dialect … accent really … but maybe. What accent do you have? So, dear god, Koxinga … an example or two please? ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853/30 "2011-09-20T05:56:11Z")
I usually avoid feeding trolls, but what the heck. I didn’t reach a conclusion. I asked a question. If you want to prove it’s a stupid question, I’d prefer information to gibes. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853/31 "2011-09-20T06:10:46Z")
> [@Greg\_Charles](#): > > You pronounce the nearby close with a z sound? I didn’t think that varied by dialect … accent really … but maybe. What accent do you have? I’m in Canada, and my first language is French. So I figure that maybe I just didn’t learn English right. Thinking about it more, in the sentence fragment “close to the street”, [kloz] and [klos] sound equally right to me. These two consonants are really very similar to each other. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853/32 "2011-09-20T06:21:01Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > I’m in Canada, and my first language is French. So I figure that maybe I just didn’t learn English right. Thinking about it more, in the sentence fragment “close to the street”, [kloz] and [klos] sound equally right to me. These two consonants are really very similar to each other. Well, they’re similar because “z” is the voiced version of “s”. Personally, [kloz] sounds awkward to me in that context, I’d say they’re different phonetically in the sentence presented in my dialect. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853/33 "2011-09-20T06:43:18Z")
> [@Greg\_Charles](#): > > You pronounce the nearby close with a z sound? I didn’t think that varied by dialect … accent really … but maybe. What accent do you have? > > So, dear god, Koxinga … an example or two please? Off the top of my head, in Mandarin the character 了 is pronounced something like “luh” (very short) when it’s being used as a marker for a past action, but “liaw” (say it like you’re deep in thought) when it comes at the start of a word like 了解 (“to understand”). The character 還 can sound like either “hai?” or “hwahn?” depending on whether it means “as yet” or “to return [something]” And there’s an assload of only-in-this-case pronunciations for common characters that have some specific context spoken by some specific idiot thousand-years-dead mandarin or drunken poet, but those don’t crop up in everyday use all that often. As I understand it, though, it’s Japanese kanji that’s the real killer, as it’s SOP for each and every character to have two different common pronunciations depending on context. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853/34 "2011-09-20T07:21:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I can only come up with six: Tough, cough, plough, through, dough, hiccough. And Firefox gives two of those a red underline. > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Hiberno-English _lough_ supplies two more options, either -ok or -okh. > [@Greg\_Charles](#): > > . . . The ones you missed are like ought, bought, fought, and one from the name McCullogh . . . So that’s uff, off, ow, oo, oh, up, ah, and maybe okh or uh. That’s seven plus two that are reaching. ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853/35 "2011-09-20T08:33:08Z")
Evil grin…What about sign languages? They have nothing to do with sound! ---
**Author:** ![yelimS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/54ee81/32.png) [@yelimS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yelimS)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853/36 "2011-09-20T11:18:54Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > …Danish/Swedish/Norwegian… are less phonetic than German. (Or so they seem to me. I haven’t really been able to figure out how to connect Scandinavian orthography to phones.) I beg to differ when it comes to Norwegian, which is continuously updated and pretty much up to speed. I’m not sure what to make of Swedish with regard to it being phonemic, but [Danes](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk) wouldn’t know intelligible pronunciation if it ran over them with a train, although their writing is more similar to Norwegian than Swedish is. ---
**Author:** ![yelimS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/54ee81/32.png) [@yelimS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yelimS)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853/37 "2011-09-20T11:25:29Z")
Also: I’m still learning Hindi, but I’m told that if you know [Devanagari](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devanagari), you can pretty much pronounce everything. Seems a legit claim, there should be enough characters. I couldn’t find a number for either alphabets and the count is a bit tricky of course, but I think Devanagari’s got IPA beat when it comes to number of letters. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853/38 "2011-09-20T11:41:04Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > As I understand it, though, it’s Japanese kanji that’s the real killer, as it’s SOP for each and every character to have two different common pronunciations depending on context. I used to live in Japan, although I’m not remotely literate in Japanese. But IIRC, the character meaning “bridge” (橋) could be pronounced at least three ways – “hashi”, “bashi”, or occasionally the totally dissimilar “kyo”. “Kyo” didn’t seem to be very common though, and I probably wouldn’t have even realized this was an alternate pronunciation if the name of the bridge in my town hadn’t used that pronunciation. ETA: Googling just now, this seems to be one of those cases where one character has both a native Japanese pronunciation (or in this instance two similar-but-different Japanese pronunciations) and a totally different pronunciation based on the Chinese. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853/39 "2011-09-20T11:48:12Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Hebrew is not phonetic - if it is written in modern way, without “nikudot”. But with _nikud_, it’s extremely phonemic - it’s very hard to misread a Hebrew word if it’s spelled out in full. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853/40 "2011-09-20T12:01:08Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > But with _nikud_, it’s extremely phonemic - it’s very hard to misread a Hebrew word if it’s spelled out in full. True, but no modern Hebrew publication uses nikud, except ones that are directed at 5-year-olds, or the Torah/Talmud. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-languages-phonetic-except-for-english/596853.md?page=3)