# Are all transgendered people mentally ill? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 1, 2017, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378 "2017-11-01T12:20:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/302 "2017-11-17T19:34:09Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > If you don’t want to waste your time with a transwomen, because she has a penis, I think you should say something in your dating profile about what you are looking for in a date, something specific enough to warn of a transwomen who can pass but who still has a penis. You are right. And I’ve already agreed that is the correct course of action for me to take. The subtle undertones of being “anti-trans” for doing that though are what are bothering me now. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/303 "2017-11-17T20:22:22Z")
> [@Cyberpvnk](#): > > Pretty basic logic if you ask me. A dude thinks he’s a female when in reality and biologically he is a male. What would you classify this if not a mental disorder? Wow, that didn’t take long. I mean, third post on this message board? What _is_ it about the transgender topics that draw so many “newbies” in to start commenting? I do wonder. As said already, it’s good thing we don’t make policy decisions and medical directives based upon your “logic.” ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/304 "2017-11-17T20:29:21Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > My friend says he’s done a lot of research, and there is a large population which is not helped by gender-confirmation surgery. Is he a researcher on this subject? Because as we’ve seen here on this message board, as well as in real life, “doing a lot of research” often means “I Googled a bunch of times.” The experience with our transgender patients, as well as those of the other clinicians I work with, as well as what the literature says, tend to disagree with your friend. If he’s talking about genderqueer or non-binary people then yeah, they usually shouldn’t be having surgery. And counselors will steer them away from it. > [@](#): > > I suspect the underlying issue is that it doesn’t fix the problem of family and co-workers thinking they are freaks, which is the source of a lot of the emotional problems. Spot on. > [@](#): > > I applaud anyone who is helped by gender confirmation surgery, but I don’t believe it is a panacea. No one has said it is. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/305 "2017-11-17T20:31:09Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > You are right. And I’ve already agreed that is the correct course of action for me to take. The subtle undertones of being “anti-trans” for doing that though are what are bothering me now. You sounded a lot more trans-accepting after you clarified that your problem was with a penis now, and not with being trans. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/306 "2017-11-17T20:44:01Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Is he a researcher on this subject? Because as we’ve seen here on this message board, as well as in real life, “doing a lot of research” often means “I Googled a bunch of times.” The experience with our transgender patients, as well as those of the other clinicians I work with, as well as what the literature says, tend to disagree with your friend. > > If he’s talking about genderqueer or non-binary people then yeah, they usually shouldn’t be having surgery. And counselors will steer them away from it. > . I agree with Una here. People considering the surgery are required to get counseling first, and that seems to make sense. But caling them “mentally ill” is a very large step from that, which I think is absolutely wrong. In some Churches, people getting married or divorced are asked to get counseling, but few will call _them_ “mentally ill”. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/307 "2017-11-17T20:44:29Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > You sounded a lot more trans-accepting after you clarified that your problem was with a penis now, and not with being trans. It seems self-evident to me that a straight guy would have problems with his date having a penis. Not sure why that would need clarification, but whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/308 "2017-11-17T20:59:27Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > There is no intent to deceive or misinform anyone about their aversion to transgender romantic partners. This is where the inherent bias of your position comes in. You are assuming that a transgender woman merely presenting as a woman without immediately announcing that she’s transgender is doing so out of “intent to deceive or misinform”. As though she’s somehow cosplaying a woman instead of actually **being** a woman, and she needs to tell other people about her “disguise” or else she’s deliberately fooling them. Your insistence that transgender women who successfully present as women without advertising their transgender status are by that very fact “deceiving or misinforming” other people, whereas, say, Jewish or Parsi or infertile or furry-fetishist women who don’t advertise their status **aren’t** innately “deceiving or misinforming”, is treating transgender status as a kind of automatic disqualification from being a “real woman”. And you are also automatically assuming that transgender-dating-averse men who conceal that fact **aren’t** doing so deliberately because they think it might turn off the potential partners they **do** want to attract. You have no more basis for judging the intentions of all such men than you have for judging the intentions of all transgender women. > [@Damuri Ajashi](#): > > I don’t think there is ANY stigma attached to an aversion to dating transgender or even HIV. NONE. Take it up with **molten** , he’s the one who made that claim. And you’ve already heard from some female posters here that they would find transgender-dating-aversion somewhat unattractive in a potential date. > [@Damuri Ajashi](#): > > The population of people who don’t want to date transgender is very high, the population of transgender is very low. That is why utilitarian principles inform ethics here. Nobody else here is buying your specious “utilitarian” framework for the ethics involved in transgender dating. But suppose we did: What exactly are the relative numerical thresholds that apply, according to you? If X percent of the population doesn’t want to date a person with a particular trait and Y percent of the population has that trait, exactly what is the lower limit on X and upper limit on Y for your “utilitarian” argument to kick in? How many people have to be willing to date someone with that trait before it stops being the responsibility of the other people to pre-emptively announce their trait? Why exactly are you choosing those values and not others for the bounds on X and Y? If you’re trying to state an ethical position based on a quantitative argument, and you don’t have a meaningful quantitative model for that type of argument, then you’re just making shit up as you go along. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/309 "2017-11-17T21:05:15Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > It seems self-evident to me that a straight guy would have problems with his date having a penis. Not sure why that would need clarification, but whatever. Actually, there are quite a few straight guys who date transgender women who haven’t had bottom surgery, and are basically fine with the penis thing. So no, your assumption isn’t self-evident, and your position did need clarification. As I keep pointing out, nobody’s arguing that **all** straight guys **ought** to want to date people with penises. But some straight guys do happily date transgender women with penises, and you don’t get to tell them that their preferences are invalid or that their self-identified sexual orientation is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/310 "2017-11-17T21:08:12Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Your insistence that transgender women who successfully present as women without advertising their transgender status are by that very fact “deceiving or misinforming” other people, whereas, say, Jewish or Parsi or infertile or furry-fetishist women who don’t advertise their status **aren’t** innately “deceiving or misinforming”, is treating transgender status as a kind of automatic disqualification from being a “real woman” This argument is only valid if you think there is no fundamental difference between a pre-op transgender woman and a cisgender woman. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/311 "2017-11-17T21:11:34Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Actually, there are quite a few straight guys who date transgender women who haven’t had bottom surgery, and are basically fine with the penis thing. So no, your assumption isn’t self-evident, and your position did need clarification I’m sure there are. But the “quite a few” still means that 95% of straight cisgender guys aren’t fine with it. Self-evident. > [@](#): > > As I keep pointing out, nobody’s arguing that **all** straight guys **ought** to want to date people with penises. But some straight guys do happily date transgender women with penises, and you don’t get to tell them that their preferences are invalid or that their self-identified sexual orientation is incorrect. I’ve told nobody that anything about themselves is invalid or incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/312 "2017-11-17T21:19:04Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > This argument is only valid if you think there is no fundamental difference between a pre-op transgender woman and a cisgender woman. Not quite. I would argue that there is indeed a fundamental difference between a pre-op transgender woman and a cisgender woman. And also a fundamental difference between a post-op transgender woman and a cisgender woman, and between a mother and a childless woman, and between a young woman and an old woman, and between a straight woman and a lesbian, and between a Christian woman and a Muslim woman, and between a fat woman and a thin woman, and between a married woman and a single woman, and on and on and on and on. I am not trying to deny the importance of differences, or to argue that anybody is in any way obligated to be equally interested in dating all types of women (or any type of women). People are allowed to have their own preferences for the certain characteristics that they happen to want or not want. What I **am** arguing as a basic ethical principle is that cisgender women, pre-op transgender women, post-op transgender women, fat women, Muslim women, lesbian women, childless women, single women, old women, straight women, etc. etc. etc., **are all equally women**. You have a perfect right, ethically speaking, to put transgender women (pre-op or otherwise) in the category of “women I’m not interested in dating”, the same as you could put any other type of woman in that category based on your own personal preferences. What I **don’t** think you have an ethical right to do is to put transgender women (pre-op or otherwise) in a special unique category of “not really women”. Especially not to the extent of insisting that they need to advertise their status or else they’re being “deceitful”. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/313 "2017-11-17T21:22:11Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Without picking on any one post or person in particular, I have still not seen any convincing argument as to why someone who does not want to date a transgender person should not be open and forthright about that on a dating site, right in their profile where it can’t be missed. Because noone bothers to even think of it. It is such a remote possibility that it borders on irrelevant. The question here is, where should the burden be placed. You make the argument that the cost of inquiry is not as great to the non-transgender person as the cost of disclosure would be to the transgender person. Not because its too much trouble for the transgender person but because it is dangerous and can have severe repercussions. That this disparity in burden justifies placing the burden on 80% of the population rather than on less than 0.5% of the population. I would suggest that those repercussions exist whether you disclose at the end of the first date or at the beginning. I don’t think you have to put it on your facebook profile or wear a yellow armband but when you are about to go on a date with a total stranger (and why anyone would do that on anything approaching a regular basis is beyond me), you should inform that stranger that you are transgender. 80%+ of people will hopefully say “thank you, but no thanks” and ~20% will say “OK, well, lets give it a shot anyway” I suspect a good portion of the 80% would say “well can we just have dinner and hang out instead of going on a date” I think that failure to make that disclosure knowing that the overwhelming majority of people will not have wanted to go on a date with you is dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/314 "2017-11-17T21:23:23Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m sure there are. But the “quite a few” still means that 95% of straight cisgender guys aren’t fine with it. Self-evident. :dubious: What you said is _“It seems self-evident to me that a straight guy would have problems with his date having a penis”_. Not _“that 95% of straight guys would have problems with their date having a penis”_. If you’re going to make categorical unqualified remarks about “straight guys” in general when what you mean is instead “an overwhelming majority of straight guys” or something like that, then people are going to misunderstand you. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/315 "2017-11-17T21:27:07Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Maybe - is that really so bad? If after several dates you have reason to fear physical violence then that’s an excellent reason to end the relationship. No, thats a reasonable basis. but then I wonder why you are going out with so many total strangers. I mean we all met someone and got married before the internet. Why meet so many total strangers? What’s the point? BTW, is it common for people to have sex on the first date these days? ISTM that there used to be a three date rule before things got physical. > [@](#): > > There’s a point where the wait is too long, but I think individual circumstances vary so much that I wouldn’t give a hard and fast rule. > > Another possibility. I don’t think that is likely to work, but it might. If someone gets to know you as a person first rather than as a “condition” that could alter how accepting they are. > > Maybe it’s a combination of the above. > > I have no real idea - I’ve been off the market for the last 30 years myself, and don’t feel ready at the moment to start pursuing another romance. I’m not even sure I care about another romance at this point, I’m still grieving the loss of my spouse. > > I suspect “dating sites” are a bit like bars and clubs were back when I was last dating - it’s a common way to meet up with people, but not the only one, and not even always the best one. IIRC sex on the first date almost always involved alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/316 "2017-11-17T21:30:08Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > But the risk of significant negative consequences to a transgender person revealing their status to a potentially hostile audience are much, much higher than the risk of significant negative consequences to a person not wishing to date a transgender person to a potentially hostile audience. Thus both the utilitarian principles and ethics here point to the wisdom of the latter group disclosing their views rather than the former disclosing their status. > [@AI\_Proofreader](#): > > Quoted for emphasis. > > If you find out someone is transgendered any time before you were going to have sex, the worst that can happen is you are disappointed and have to start dating someone else. After what were presumably some nice or fun dates, since you want to have sex with that person. > > If a transgendered person walks around announcing to everyone they just met 5 minutes ago that they are trans, they stand a pretty good chance of bodily harm from the people they’re announcing that to, people who overhear, or people that person shares that information with. To say nothing of the even higher likelihood of lesser degrees of consequences including legal consequences (you used the wrong bathroom! Predator!), loss of employment, loss of housing, and social ostracization from those 80% of people who are not O.K. with transgendered people. Noone’s saying you got to wear a yellow armband or put it on your facebook profile, ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/317 "2017-11-17T21:30:50Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Because noone bothers to even think of it. It is such a remote possibility that it borders on irrelevant. ISTM that if it’s super-important to you to avoid a particular remote possibility, then you **ought** to bother to think of it. > [@Damuri Ajashi](#): > > […] 80% of the population rather than on less than 0.5% of the population. Again, exactly what are the numerical cutoffs where you think this “utilitarian” argument would stop applying? If 60% of the population wants to avoid some characteristic occurring in 3% of the population, do you still consider the 3% ethically obligated to pre-emptively announce their status? If not, what exactly are those numbers? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/318 "2017-11-17T21:36:30Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > :dubious: What you said is _“It seems self-evident to me that a straight guy would have problems with his date having a penis”_. Not _“that 95% of straight guys would have problems with their date having a penis”_. > > If you’re going to make categorical unqualified remarks about “straight guys” in general when what you mean is instead “an overwhelming majority of straight guys” or something like that, then people are going to misunderstand you. Fair enough, point taken. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/319 "2017-11-17T21:39:42Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I don’t recall signing up for any one person’s concept of “utilitarian principles” which apparently inform their ethics. YOu don’t have to sign onto utilitarian principles for them to apply. I might be misapplying them and I have to think a bit more about the cost of disclosure to the transgender person but utilitarian principles are one of the sources of ethics. > [@](#): > > You’re defending a right of one party to not be forthright entering a relationship, while demanding the other party must be forthright - based on something you call “utilitarian principles.” Step back a minute and think about how what you are writing looks. So tell me why you would place the burden on 80%+ of the population to spare the \<0.5% of the population from having to disclose? > [@](#): > > Where’s the threshold for when the majority no longer shares an equal moral obligation with a subgroup? What is that critical percentage point? Be very careful whatever number you choose, as I’m certain there are quite a few oxen to be gored with nearly any value that is selected. Or, if the magnitude of the number is weighted by any sort of fuzzy “utilitarian” logic, then the number becomes opinion-based, and at that point it’s not utilitarianism, it’s merely one’s bias on one side of the issue or another. I don’t know where the exact number is but 0.5% versus 80% seems pretty clear. The thing is I’m not using “fuzzy” utilitarian logic. I’m just using fuzzy utilitarian logic and youa re adding the word fuzzy for the same reason Republicans add the word “fuzzy” in front of the word “math” when people criticize their tax plans. > [@](#): > > Another factor when considering percentages is that while transgender and gender non-confirming persons may make up no more than 0.3-0.6% of the population, we tend to be much less likely to be in a committed long-term relationship, or married. Our apparent impact on a dating site thus may easily be magnified by 2-4 times whatever our actual population ought to be on the site (simply my guess based upon what I know of my community) (and as I said earlier, if it’s on a site called “Southern Baptist Mingle” then there may be not a single transgender person present…then again, I know at least two Southern Baptist ministers who are transgender and in hiding…). > > So if we break the 1% barrier, are we significant enough? Or is the number 2%? 5%? 49.99%? At what point should a person who simply doesn’t want to date, or who is disgusted by transgender persons, obligated to be honest and forthright about that fact when trying to filter their responses on a dating site? Sure if only 1% of people don’t want to date transgender and 80% of people are transgender then THAT person is the exception and should tell people that they don’t want to date transgender. Are you asking me the exact point this flips? Really? Isn’t it enough that 0.5% versus 80% is clearly on this side of the line? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/320 "2017-11-17T21:44:18Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Just to clarify - by “dating” do you mean “spending time like going out to dinner or a movie” or by “dating” to you mean “have sex with this person”. Because apparently “dating” means the former to some and the latter to others. > > That’s probably another thing to clarify before heading out for dinner and movie - whether or not you expect sex to be the third act. Dating means more than just hanging out. I go out to dinner and watch movies with gay friends, I do not date gay men. Dating sounds a lot more confusing today than when I was dating. It used to be pretty clear that dating was done with a view towards possibly establishing a romantic relationship. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/321 "2017-11-17T21:45:11Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Is he a researcher on this subject? Because as we’ve seen here on this message board, as well as in real life, “doing a lot of research” often means “I Googled a bunch of times.” The experience with our transgender patients, as well as those of the other clinicians I work with, as well as what the literature says, tend to disagree with your friend. > > If he’s talking about genderqueer or non-binary people then yeah, they usually shouldn’t be having surgery. And counselors will steer them away from it. > Spot on. > No one has said it is. My friend is not a professional researcher on the subject. But he has done a great deal of research since coming out. He has also been very active and supportive in his local trans community. He was very slow to come out, despite being miserable, because he believed that his only options were to continue in the closet or to have major reconstructive surgery. The support of his therapist and his friends for his not having surgery have been extremely valuable to him. But that was something he literally didn’t conceive of until others suggested it. He says that there’s a tendency for people who suffer from gender disphoria and other problems related to not fitting into their assigned gender to latch onto surgical transitioning as the cure, and to fight to get it, only to discover there are other problems with their lives. He says that good therapists will help people sort this out, but that many people don’t have good therapists. He’s quoted some scary statistics, too, about suicide rates both for trans people who don’t transition and for those who do. I think surgery is one tool that helps some people. I suspect that social acceptance matters more even among those who benefit from surgery. And I think there are people, even people who are fully trans from the gender they were assigned at birth, who get limited benefit from surgery. But it seems like a matter that a person should explore with their doctors, without a lot of busybodies telling them what to do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378.md?page=17)