# Are all transgendered people mentally ill? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 1, 2017, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378 "2017-11-01T12:20:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/482 "2017-11-29T01:48:06Z")
Find a different dating site? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/483 "2017-11-29T01:49:23Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Why does it have to be either/or transgender or cisgender? What if I’m both? Or neither? What if it depends on how I feel at a particular time? What if I’m both yin and yang? > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Because it’s been amply demonstrated to me that a person is either transgender or cisgender. There is no other way to be. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/484 "2017-11-29T01:51:13Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Find a different dating site? But people were complaining that some dating sites didn’t offer all the options. Are you saying that there should be dating sites that only have “woman” and “man” as options? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/485 "2017-11-29T02:06:40Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Yes. The side where the overall burden is lightest. Since the burden is by far lightest for the cisgender people who don’t want to date transpeople, I’m glad you validate my point. > [@](#): > > I’m not sure what your argument is here. Is the argument that homosexuals should have to identify themselves as homosexuals? Or that heterosexuals shouldn’t have to identify themselves (under my logic) because so many people are heterosexuals? My point is your arbitrary breakpoints you pulled out of your ass have no factual validity. Back up your numbers. > [@](#): > > But you are saying that the rest of the world should bear the burden of putting “no trans” on their dating profile without being prompted, because its not fair that transwomen have to disclose their transgender status to the people they date… is silly. Strawman; I never said nor implied “the rest of the world.” Just people in the context of a dating site. You want to amend that statement then I’m guessing… > [@](#): > > The entire discipline of philosophy and economics disagrees with your formulation of how arguments are weighed. Your argument is self centered, self indulgent and somewhat spoiled while mine is based on long established economic principles. Back. Up. Your. Numbers. I’ve asked you about a dozen times now, and you keep bobbing and weaving like Cassius Clay in his prime, trying to avoid the question. And yet, the question still stands. > [@](#): > > And your opinion is backed by your arguments that transwomen get beaten so we should just agree with you. Show me a few cases where someone tracked a transwoman from her dating profile and beat her. Goalpost shifting. Back. Up. Your. Numbers. And you know, for someone who keeps claiming not to be a bigot, and for someone who keeps claiming not to even be interested in using dating sites, you certainly are spending a lot of time white-knighting the poor, oppressed cisgender persons. For someone with neither literal nor figurative skin in the game, you certainly seem very, very interested in transgender topics. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/486 "2017-11-29T02:13:20Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > But people were complaining that some dating sites didn’t offer all the options. Are you saying that there should be dating sites that only have “woman” and “man” as options? No, I’m saying that whether or not a trans person feels comfortable disclosing that they’re trans is solely at their discretion. It’s not my place to tell them when it’s appropriate to do so. It’s not yours, either. Nor is it **Damuri** ’s. I could have _sworn_ I explained that part already. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/487 "2017-11-29T02:27:55Z")
It almost seems like this argument is just a manifestation of “no homo! No homo!” How unfortunate. I’ve never in my life met nor heard of a transgender person who really wanted a relationship or sex with someone who hated them, found them disgusting, found them to be a joke, denied their reality, wanted to deprive them of life and liberty, wanted to take their jobs and careers away, wanted them to be thrown out of or denied entrance to school, thrown out of stores and restaurants, or even wanted us expelled and expunged from our places of worship. I guess there might be someone out there. I guess? I read once about a man who ate a bicycle, so who knows what some people will do. But we don’t want you, OK? We really, really don’t want people who are disgusted by or disappointed in us. Not for coffee, not for conversation, and certainly not for a one-night stand - let alone, marriage. And cease the false equivalence that typing “no trans” is just as burdensome and just as risky as forcing us to reveal private medical information to the entire community on a dating site (or the world, if the site has public profiles). Simply be honest and forthright - things that were once conservative principles, long, long ago - and we will know never to even look your way. For instance, take **manson1972**. He and I certainly don’t see the same way on these subjects, but I’ve always felt like he’s tried to be forthright in his arguments. He admits when his opinion is just an opinion and doesn’t try to dress it up as anything but that. Edited: deleted extraneous “s” ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/488 "2017-11-29T02:31:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No, I’m saying that whether or not a trans person feels comfortable disclosing that they’re trans is solely at their discretion. It’s not my place to tell them when it’s appropriate to do so. It’s not yours, either. Nor is it **Damuri** ’s. > > I could have _sworn_ I explained that part already. Yes, you did explain that. But you seem to refuse to explain what you think about the results of that. The only thing you have said is if a dating site offers a member the choice of “transgender” or “cisgender” then that person should pick a different dating site. Is that what you think? If a dating site only offers those two choices, then a person who doesn’t want to select “transgender” should find another dating site? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/489 "2017-11-29T02:43:22Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Simply be honest and forthright - things that were once conservative principles, long, long ago - and we will know never to even look your way. For instance, take **manson1972**. He and I certainly don’t see the same way on these subjects, but I’ve always felt like he’s tried to be forthright in his arguments. He admits when his opinion is just an opinion and doesn’t try to dress it up as anything but that. Thanks for that, really. Honesty is a trait that I value highly, and I try to uphold it always, even online in an anonymous message board. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/490 "2017-11-29T03:15:55Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Because it’s been amply demonstrated to me that a person is either transgender or cisgender. There is no other way to be. I suppose “intersex” could be considered a third category… ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/491 "2017-11-29T03:55:12Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Because it’s been amply demonstrated to me that a person is either transgender or cisgender. There is no other way to be. Careful. We used to say that about male or female, before those other words even existed. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/492 "2017-11-29T04:11:22Z")
There seems to be a lot of straw on this floor, somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Lickety\_Split\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/67e7ee/32.png) [@Lickety\_Split\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lickety_Split_1)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/493 "2017-11-29T04:11:26Z")
I would have to say that, in my opinion, anybody who is trans gendered almost certainly is suffering from a type of mental and/or emotional disease. Before you liberals jump down my throat here and accuse me of being a bigot…let is first take a good hard look at the word “dis-ease.” That’s right…it is actually a combination of the prefix “dis”–meaning “negatively” or “without” and the word “ease.” Meaning, in this context, to be “at ease” or “comfortable.” Thus: When I claim a TG person is suffering from a mental or emotional disease, I am simply claiming that they are not comfortable, or ill at-ease with their original, genetic sex. So much so, that they are compelled to dress and act and live their lives as much they can in the guise of the sex which they are biologically not. I don’t have to say that Evolution did not intend this. Nor did biology. Nor did Nature. Our species of homo sapiens would not have made it to the top of the food chain, and outlived and vanquished the other 20-some-odd sub-species of the genus homo if our ancestors were all–or even significantly–TG’d. So…can we now equate being “ill at ease” or “uncomfortable” or even “loathsome” of our genetic sex as being mentally ill? That is…mentally “unwell?” I think we can. And I, for one, DO. TG’d people are simply not psychologically healthy. They are at odds with the primary driving forces of biology and anthropology as we know it. One simply cannot thumb their collective noses at such a crucial and indispensable force or nature and still expect to be termed mentally healthy. And…not healthy = ill. TG = Mentally Ill. Tough equation to refute, wouldn’t you say? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/494 "2017-11-29T04:11:35Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Who fucking cares? For most of my life, the “vast majority” of people thought I shouldn’t be allowed to be married. If I’d been born a little earlier, I’d have had the delightful experience of having the “vast majority” of people think I was inherently dangerous to children. There have been times when the “vast majority” of people thought that black people were inferior to white people, that women couldn’t be trusted to vote, or that Jews were directly and personally responsible for killing Jesus. You just made a bald unsupported statement that a “transwoman is a woman, full stop.” You’re wrong. At no point do I advocate discrimination against transwomen. You seem to think I am advocating all sorts of mistreatment of transwomen. What is it that you think I am advocating here? I am just saying that not being upfront about being transgender is dishonest. > [@](#): > > All of those assholes were wrong. Being in the majority didn’t make them right. You’re right, being in the majority doesn’t make me right. Being right makes me right. Being in the majority only says that social mores are on my side and social mores could be wrong. Criticizing dishonesty on the part of transwomen may be a social custom that we grow out of as we realize that dishonesty from transwomen is OK if she’s trying to date total strangers. But I doubt it. Transwomen are clearly not “women, full stop.” I can do a genetic test and distinguish between a woman and a transwoman. A transwoman cannot bear children. A transwoman does not have menstrual cycles. A transwoman was not born a woman. So while common courtesy might require you to refer to and treat a transwoman as a woman (in most circumstances), and while a transwoman might feel like they are women, and while they might fill the role of women in some senses, it would be incorrect to say “transwomen are women, full stop.” And that is what you did. > [@](#): > > Who the fuck is arguing for a “re-order of society?” The folks who are saying that everyone who doesn’t want to date a transwoman should be required to unequivocally state that in their dating profile. Transgenderism is YOUR problem. You’re trying to make YOUR problem everyone else’s problem. We can make reasonable accommodations for you to have access to the bathrooms that you want to use and to make sure you don’t get fired or assaulted because of your transgender status but if you are being dishonest, don’t hide behind the fact that you suffer from discrimination to excuse your dishonesty. Don’t demand that it is the rest of the world that is being dishonest when YOU are the one being dishonest. > [@](#): > > I’m arguing that they be treated exactly the same as any other woman, But they’re not exactly the same as any other woman. They are different and not disclosing their transgender status when they date is dishonesty. > [@](#): > > and that includes not being shamed because they don’t want to reveal intimate medical details of their lives to strangers. Being dishonest is shameful. And we should not relieve you of that shame just because you are a transwoman. > [@](#): > > Transwomen are not being dishonest by presenting themselves as women. Because they \*are \*women. No they are not. Not exactly. > [@](#): > > No. There is nothing - absolutely nothing at all - dishonest about that. I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on that. In fact I suspect we are going to have to agree to disagree on a lot of things because you don’t seem to grok the difference between a transwoman and a natural born woman. > [@](#): > > There’s nothing that those women could have told you that would have made you not date them - except if they were transgender, which would have been an instant deal-breaker, regardless of any other circumstance. I don’t recall anything other than lack of chemistry; inconvenient geography; my immaturity; their immaturity; someone better coming along for one of us while we were dating; etc. And yes transgenderism would have been an instant deal-breaker for me regardless of whether they are pre-op or post-op. > [@](#): > > But your position is not in any way animated by prejudice against trans people. Sure. I don’t have many prejudices against trans-people. I pity them and feel sorry for their unfortunate circumstance. I can’t imagine how uncomfortable you must have felt in your own skin to want to make such a drastic change. I have some pity for them because they will have to live with the stigma and whispers for the foreseeable future. I feel bad for them that they now see the gay community being able to (in many cases) come out to their family and friends with few negative repercussions, while they still risk everything when they come out. But I don’t have any animus against them. > [@](#): > > I don’t have a lot of respect for people who insist on differing social standards for a minority, and then insist that their position is somehow respectful towards the people they’re shitting on. A natural born heterosexual male is in no way dishonest for not proactively stating in his profile “no trans” A transwoman who doesn’t disclose that they are a transwoman to a person who they know is going to assume they are a natural born woman is in fact being dishonest. That’s not applying differing social standards. That’s using logic and reason. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/495 "2017-11-29T04:33:11Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Setting aside the inherent idiocy of using economic theories to dictate romantic behavior, your position is still shitty for the simple fact that _the burden is not hire for the cisgender people in this situation._ Cisgender people don’t get murder because someone doesn’t like cisgender people. They don’t get fired from their jobs if their boss finds out they’re cisgender. They don’t get kicked out of their homes for being cisgender. The absolute worst outcome here is that a cisgender person might have a date that doesn’t lead any where. _That is not the heavier burden._ So show me one transgender woman that got beaten for being honest about their transgender status before a date. I will show you 3 that got beaten for not mentioning it until after they started dating someone. The fact that transwomen get murdered for being transgender isn’t an “I win all arguments even if my argument doesn’t make any sense” card. Of course transgender folks can also stop dating total strangers. > [@](#): > > Not telling people you’re trans is not dishonest. Yes it is. > [@](#): > > We. Are. Not. Talking. About. Economics. We are talking about human behaviour and social costs. What did you think economics was? How do YOU respond to Ambivalid’s argument that the burden of disclosure is on the transwoman? > [@](#): > > And the “entire” discipline of philosophy? Because there’s just one of those, right? Yes, you can even major in it in college. Just like you can major in religion even though there is more than one of those. > [@](#): > > Man, this paragraph is such a mess. > > First, violence isn’t the only issue, here. It seems to be your Trump card. I’m sorry if you are having trouble understanding what I wrote. > [@](#): > > There’s a lot of other forms of discrimination trans people face. What if they’re interviewing for a job, their employer does a Google search on their name, and up comes a dating profile that lists them as transgender? What if a co-worker is cruising OKCupid, and happens on their profile? What if it’s a family member they’re not out to yet? Once again, I don’t know how these websites work but don’t you have to be looking for a transwoman for a transwoman to pop up on your filter? Or are you talking about a co-worker that is looking for a transwoman? I suppose if this worries you then you really oughtn’t be dating total strangers because someone’s gonna find out you are a transwoman sooner or later if you keep dating total strangers. > [@](#): > > Second, a lot of violence against trans people is committed by their intimate partner - not because the trans person “tricked” them into sex without disclosing their status, but because someone in the attacker’s social circle found out they were dating a trans person, and the attacker felt compelled to violence in order to save face. cite. For every example that you can come up with where a transwoman got beaten by a lover that KNEW they were transexual because they were embarrassed that their friends found out, I will provide 2 examples of a transwoman being beaten up by a romantic partner who didn’t know they were transexual. > [@](#): > > Third, your confusing your arguments. Whether or not it’s safer to be upfront about being trans has nothing to do with the ethics of being upfront about it. It’s your habit of conflating the two arguments that makes people rightly call you out for victim blaming. Nope. An argument was presented I rebutted it. You apparently don’t understand what victim blaming means. > [@](#): > > Lastly, Jesus! What is it with you and the laser-like focus on online dating? There’s a lot of other venues where people can hook up romantically. That was the example that was presented by others. Ask them. If you aren’t being forthright at other venues, then you are being dishonest there too unless the venue is known for a lot of transwoman traffic. > [@](#): > > You know who’s not helping bring that change around? > > You. > > So, spare us your crocodile tears about how unfortunate it is that trans people have to deal with folks like you in navigating dating spaces. You want things to be better for trans people? Stop making the arguments you’ve been making in this thread. Its not my job to help expand the dating pool for transexuals. My only obligation is to make sure that they are treated with respect and human dignity and not discriminated against. Just like its not your job to make society view Asian men or black women as sexually desirable. Your only obligation is to make sure that we are treated with respect and human dignity and not discriminated against. The argument that I have been making is that if you are a transwoman and you don’t disclose, then you are being dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/496 "2017-11-29T04:43:42Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Since the burden is by far lightest for the cisgender people who don’t want to date transpeople, I’m glad you validate my point. Of course that’s ridiculous. Ambivalid’s argument is on point. I’m sorry that life dealt you this particular card but that doesn’t excuse dishonesty when you have the moral burden of disclosure. > [@](#): > > My point is your arbitrary breakpoints you pulled out of your ass have no factual validity. Back up your numbers. Maybe you missed it the last time but you are making a very bad argument here. In fact its called the continuum fallacy: > **[Sorites paradox](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuum_fallacy)** > > The sorites paradox (/soʊˈraɪtiːz/; sometimes known as the paradox of the heap) is a paradox that results from vague predicates. A typical formulation involves a heap of sand, from which grains are removed individually. With the assumption that removing a single grain does not cause a heap to become a non-heap, the paradox is to consider what happens when the process is repeated enough times that only one grain remains: is it still a heap? If not, when did it change from a heap to a non-hea The w... > [@](#): > > Strawman; I never said nor implied “the rest of the world.” Just people in the context of a dating site. You want to amend that statement then I’m guessing… For the purposes of this conversation, its the rest of the world. Your quibbling about this reveals the weakness of your arguments. > [@](#): > > Back. Up. Your. Numbers. I’ve asked you about a dozen times now, and you keep bobbing and weaving like Cassius Clay in his prime, trying to avoid the question. And yet, the question still stands. Once again: > **[Sorites paradox](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuum_fallacy)** > > The sorites paradox (/soʊˈraɪtiːz/; sometimes known as the paradox of the heap) is a paradox that results from vague predicates. A typical formulation involves a heap of sand, from which grains are removed individually. With the assumption that removing a single grain does not cause a heap to become a non-heap, the paradox is to consider what happens when the process is repeated enough times that only one grain remains: is it still a heap? If not, when did it change from a heap to a non-hea The w... I don’t have to draw a bright line for my argument to hold. > [@](#): > > Goalpost shifting. The crux of your argument is “if I disclose my transgender status, people will beat me up” OK so show me when this happens? > [@](#): > > Back. Up. Your. Numbers. And a third time: > **[Sorites paradox](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuum_fallacy)** > > The sorites paradox (/soʊˈraɪtiːz/; sometimes known as the paradox of the heap) is a paradox that results from vague predicates. A typical formulation involves a heap of sand, from which grains are removed individually. With the assumption that removing a single grain does not cause a heap to become a non-heap, the paradox is to consider what happens when the process is repeated enough times that only one grain remains: is it still a heap? If not, when did it change from a heap to a non-hea The w... > [@](#): > > And you know, for someone who keeps claiming not to be a bigot, and for someone who keeps claiming not to even be interested in using dating sites, you certainly are spending a lot of time white-knighting the poor, oppressed cisgender persons. For someone with neither literal nor figurative skin in the game, you certainly seem very, very interested in transgender topics. There are only a few areas where you will see this sort of intentional disregard of logic and reason and blatant appeals to emotional arguments. Look, I’m sorry for your troubles, you got dealt a shitty hand. But that doesn’t entitle you to insist that society should be ordered and adopt customs to make your life easier. It doesn’t entitle you to insist that we overlook dishonesty just because you are having trouble dating. I know you’re a very good person, I know that you do good things and help a lot of people. But hiding your transgender status from a date is still dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/497 "2017-11-29T04:51:51Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > It almost seems like this argument is just a manifestation of “no homo! No homo!” How unfortunate. > > I’ve never in my life met nor heard of a transgender person who really wanted a relationship or sex with someone who hated them, found them disgusting, found them to be a joke, denied their reality, wanted to deprive them of life and liberty, wanted to take their jobs and careers away, wanted them to be thrown out of or denied entrance to school, thrown out of stores and restaurants, or even wanted us expelled and expunged from our places of worship. I guess there might be someone out there. I guess? I read once about a man who ate a bicycle, so who knows what some people will do. > > But we don’t want you, OK? We really, really don’t want people who are disgusted by or disappointed in us. Not for coffee, not for conversation, and certainly not for a one-night stand - let alone, marriage. And cease the false equivalence that typing “no trans” is just as burdensome and just as risky as forcing us to reveal private medical information to the entire community on a dating site (or the world, if the site has public profiles). > > Simply be honest and forthright - things that were once conservative principles, long, long ago - and we will know never to even look your way. For instance, take **manson1972**. He and I certainly don’t see the same way on these subjects, but I’ve always felt like he’s tried to be forthright in his arguments. He admits when his opinion is just an opinion and doesn’t try to dress it up as anything but that. > > Edited: deleted extraneous “s” So you are saying that one of the reasons transwomen don’t disclose is NOT because they hope that the guy they are on a date with will maybe overlook the trans status after they get to know them? I personally have no illusions that anyone is lusting after me, gay straight or trans. And trans status is medical information? Is having a penis also medical information? because these things seem like things you would mention on a dating profile. They seem pretty relevant. I’m not a conservative. Unless you think 80%+ of people are conservatives. And its still dishonest to hide your transgender status. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/498 "2017-11-29T06:57:04Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yes, you did explain that. But you seem to refuse to explain what you think about the results of that. > > The only thing you have said is if a dating site offers a member the choice of “transgender” or “cisgender” then that person should pick a different dating site. > > Is that what you think? If a dating site only offers those two choices, then a person who doesn’t want to select “transgender” should find another dating site? Okay, let’s step through this. 1. I think it’s improper to require transgender people to reveal that they’re transgender. 2. You propose a hypothetical dating website that requires people to reveal whether or not they’re transgender. 1 + 2 = that’s a shitty dating site, and people should go to a better one that doesn’t require everyone to disclose private medical details as part of your dating profile. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/499 "2017-11-29T06:59:16Z")
> [@Lickety\_Split](#): > > I would have to say that, in my opinion, anybody who is trans gendered almost certainly is suffering from a type of mental and/or emotional disease. > > Before you liberals jump down my throat here and accuse me of being a bigot…let is first take a good hard look at the word “dis-ease.” > > That’s right…it is actually a combination of the prefix “dis”–meaning “negatively” or “without” and the word “ease.” Meaning, in this context, to be “at ease” or “comfortable.” > > … > > Tough equation to refute, wouldn’t you say? > > Thanks. Actually, it’s extraordinarily easy. “Disease” does not mean “not comfortable.” Done. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/500 "2017-11-29T07:10:05Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Dude. > > When I was 21 I did a lot of itinerant labor work in some boom towns in Colorado and New Mexico. I looked more or less like any other male person my age and so the folks who employed me thought of me as a man or a regular guy or however you want to put it. Which should not matter in the slightest, gender not having jack shit to do with the jobs for which I was being hired, and yet it did matter. After a day or two they’d get uncomfortable around me and decide not to keep me on. (Yeah, some of these occurrences could’ve been because they thought I was a poor worker or dumb as a box of rocks or smelled bad or a clumsy worker or a batshit insane wasted stoner or whatever, but there were enough cases where they were explicit about me being ‘not a regular kind of guy’ and asking probing questions about my guy credentials for me to see the pattern). > > I could have started telling potential employers up front that I wasn’t a typical guy. Would it have resulted in far fewer of them hiring me and then letting me go a few days later? Yeah. It would have resulted in far fewer people hiring me, for sure. I suspect very few folks would have hired me, period. > > Did I owe them this advance notice? Nope: it was _their_ bullshit attitude and expectation causing the problem, not something wrong with _me_. If they hadn’t had a bullshit attitude about their guy employees all being ‘one of the guys’, there wouldn’t have been a problem. I show up on time, I work hard, I obey instructions, I learn fast and don’t get into arguments with coworkers and I keep my crazy thoughts to myself on a menial labor job. > > Oh, you’re completely right, dating is utterly _different_. :dubious: Yeah. Dating is utterly different than hiring someone to do random labor. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378/501 "2017-11-29T07:11:32Z")
I’m getting sick of the endless cut and paste arguments, so I think I’ll just cut to the chase. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > My only obligation is to make sure that they are treated with respect and human dignity and not discriminated against. You can’t do that, and say this: > [@](#): > > The argument that I have been making is that if you are a transwoman and you don’t disclose, then you are being dishonest. They are mutually incompatible positions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-all-transgendered-people-mentally-ill/800378.md?page=26)