# Are Americans losing it with Muslims? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2015, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553 "2015-12-28T10:25:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/221 "2015-12-30T01:56:15Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I tell you what; you put their names into Google, sort through the results, copy the relevant quotes, and post them here with the links. The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. NO you start checking a few fax for your self ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/222 "2015-12-30T02:17:15Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > NO you start checking a few fax for your self Why should I? I already know the facts, until shown otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![badtv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b38774/32.png) [@badtv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badtv)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/223 "2015-12-30T02:40:27Z")
is coming up? When Republicans campaign, I’m sorry to say it but FEAR is usually the theme. I bet ISIS will mellow right out and so will all Muslim activities that the media spends so much time fear mongering us with; after the elections. They always do. Bin Laden put out a new video every time Bush’s approval ratings took a dive or he was running for reelection. If you say, “What about San Bernardino?” What about it? I live 40 minutes from there and all I saw was a media report and I put no stock, belief, or faith in what I see on television. I have to see it with my own eyes or see something other than a FOX news report to confirm it. If you want to get riled up about people beheading people you don’t need to look to the other side of the globe if you live in the U.S. Just look South of the Boarder. Happens there probably more than it does and Saudi Arabia or Syria or anywhere in the middle East lately, and its over something dumber than religion, its over dope! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/224 "2015-12-30T02:47:12Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > This is happening in Canada. How long before their problems travel south of the border This is silly. We all know that Daesh has been able to lure a number of disaffected youth to join it. It has already happened in the U.S. That fact does nothing to establish some terrible threat from “Islam.” It just means that people in the West should do a better job of integrating disaffected kids into society so that they are not lured to join Daesh and that the West should do a better job of working with moderate Muslims to reduce tensions overall. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/225 "2015-12-30T03:02:30Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > No. Maybe you could dig the women up and explain it to them. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/226 "2015-12-30T03:14:36Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This is silly. We all know that Daesh has been able to lure a number of disaffected youth to join it. > It has already happened in the U.S. > > That fact does nothing to establish some terrible threat from “Islam.” It just means that people in the West should do a better job of integrating disaffected kids into society so that they are not lured to join Daesh and that the West should do a better job of working with moderate Muslims to reduce tensions overall. The rub is that for countless reasons such solutions neither exist nor are workable. Disaffected kids have always been with us and they always will be. It’s a function of their age. And if you can come up with some concrete, workable way to work with moderate Muslims (assuming you can even define which is which and then manage some sort of dialog that doesn’t immediately get derailed because of allegations of racism or unfairness) I’d like to see how you’d accomplish it. You might as well claim the solution to world peace and an end to hunger would be for the West to do a better job of finding ways to feed everyone and to get them to stop fighting. These problems are far more complex than your solutions suggest, and have largely proven impossible to achieve for as long as man has walked the planet. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/227 "2015-12-30T04:52:18Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > I am now 72 years of age and all my life I have had a problem with spelling and grammar I have been told it is a very mild form of dyslexia so I cannot see things changing any time soon. I will always have my say and just hope people understand what I am saying. > > \*\*You’re really going to have to do better than just toss out your outlandish assertions without providing some actual substantiation. > \*\* > > I started out 5/6 years ago trying to post a middle ground about Islam until I went on to a site called FFI founded by ex-Muslims and verbally given a good kicking I was given hard introduction about the difficulties of leaving Islam, the abuse suffered by Muslim woman and children. Some of what I was hearing was horrific. Me being me checked the stories reading news reports printed in English from around the world and managed to check out 75% of what I was being told. I have travelled a little and spoken to Coptic Christians in Egypt and Beirut, I have spoken with Christians from Mosel in Iraq while they were visiting London. I am not a very good keyboard warrior I am more of a street person so do not expect to much from me Why should I believe any of this BS when you haven’t managed to post other than unbelievable BS so far? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/228 "2015-12-30T05:01:56Z")
> [@badtv](#): > > is coming up? When Republicans campaign, I’m sorry to say it but FEAR is usually the theme. I bet ISIS will mellow right out and so will all Muslim activities that the media spends so much time fear mongering us with; after the elections. They always do. Bin Laden put out a new video every time Bush’s approval ratings took a dive or he was running for reelection. > > If you say, “What about San Bernardino?” What about it? I live 40 minutes from there and all I saw was a media report and I put no stock, belief, or faith in what I see on television. I have to see it with my own eyes or see something other than a FOX news report to confirm it. > > If you want to get riled up about people beheading people you don’t need to look to the other side of the globe if you live in the U.S. Just look South of the Boarder. Happens there probably more than it does and Saudi Arabia or Syria or anywhere in the middle East lately, and its over something dumber than religion, its over dope! Dope and money are real. Sky fairies aren’t no matter how loud a deranged prophet may proclaim. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/229 "2015-12-30T06:44:17Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And if you can come up with some concrete, workable way to work with moderate Muslims (assuming you can even define which is which and then manage some sort of dialog that doesn’t immediately get derailed because of allegations of racism or unfairness) I’d like to see how you’d accomplish it. Well, in your imaginary universe where there are no moderate Muslims, it probably cannot. Certainly, it is apparent that no person with your mindset coukld be part of any such effort. In the real world, it happens all the time: [http://thinkprogress.org/security/2010/10/28/127117/peter-king-muslim-cooperate/](http://thinkprogress.org/security/2010/10/28/127117/peter-king-muslim-cooperate/) > [@](#): > > While many Muslim leaders have complained of a heavy-handed FBI presence in their communities, American Muslims have been integral in combating domestic terrorism. As Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN) said at an event sponsored by the Center for American Progress, according to the Muslim Public Affairs Council, “About a third of all foiled al-Qaida-related plots in the U.S. relied on support or information provided by members of the Muslim community.” > [@](#): > > Moreover, a recent academic study found that American contemporary mosques are serving as a deterrent to the spread of extremism and terrorism. The New York Times noted that the study found that “many mosque leaders had put significant effort into countering extremism by building youth programs, sponsoring antiviolence forums and scrutinizing teachers and texts.” “Muslim-American communities have been active in preventing radicalization,” said study co- author David Kurzman. And: [Some Good News: Christian and Muslim Cooperation in Egypt and beyond - Middle East - International - News - Catholic Online](http://www.catholic.org/news/international/middle_east/story.php?id=40179) [http://english.alarabiya.net/en/views/news/middle-east/2014/12/05/Muslim-Christian-cooperation-vital-in-tackling-ISIS.html](http://english.alarabiya.net/en/views/news/middle-east/2014/12/05/Muslim-Christian-cooperation-vital-in-tackling-ISIS.html) [https://www.uri.org/cooperation\_circles/detail/muslimchristianpeacetala](https://www.uri.org/cooperation_circles/detail/muslimchristianpeacetala) [Muslims Defend Christians During al-Shabab Militant Attack in Kenya - Newsweek](http://www.newsweek.com/muslims-defend-christians-during-al-shabab-militant-attack-kenya-407859) [Some Surprising and Hopeful Signs: Muslims Defend Jews, Jews Defend Muslims - WhoWhatWhy](http://whowhatwhy.org/2015/03/15/some-surprising-and-hopeful-signs-muslims-defend-jews-jews-defend-muslims/) [Nigeria: 200 young Muslims protect Christians from attack](http://www.christiantoday.com/article/nigeria.200.young.muslims.protect.christians.from.attack/45069.htm) [Overlapping Jewish, Muslim Holidays Prompt Cooperation In Jerusalem | HuffPost Religion](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/overlapping-jewish-muslim-holidays-prompt-cooperation-in-jerusalem_5602f045e4b00310edf9b537) [Exclusion-Moderation: The emergence of Islamist cooperation with secular groups in Kuwait](http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/markaz/posts/2015/05/22-kuwait-secular-groups-political-parties) [http://www.paulist.org/ecumenism/“ecumenical-movement”-within-islam](http://www.paulist.org/ecumenism/%E2%80%9Cecumenical-movement%E2%80%9D-within-islam) ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/230 "2015-12-30T07:29:28Z")
There is an Iranian man in my church who is an ex-Muslim and he fears for not just his life, but for his relatives back home. It took him a long time before he broke down and told his family back in Iran. They were not happy about it but he still wants to protect them. To do so he is careful about revealing his full name or background to people until he gets to know them and is especially careful around Muslims and Iranians here. He says he tends to walk away whenever he hears someone speaking Farsi in public. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/231 "2015-12-30T07:51:38Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Well, in your imaginary universe where there are no moderate Muslims, it probably cannot. Certainly, it is apparent that no person with your mindset coukld be part of any such effort. Nonsense. I personally know and have become friends with quite a few Muslims who’ve either immigrated here from Morocco or come to visit family who had. They’re great, friendly, charming (and dare I say, moderate) people. Recently there were accounts in the news of Muslims acting in concert to protect Christians on a bus from being murdered by terrorists who’d hijacked the bus for that purpose, even down to giving some of the Christian people some of their garments to make them harder to identify as Christian. In other words, moderate Muslims abound and you’re completely wrong in your assessment that I believe otherwise. What I am saying however is that the issue is far too complex and multi-faceted and prone to derailment not only from accusations of bigotry and unfairness but because of questions as to which ones are moderate and which are not, how well can they and the rest of the Western world work together to “reduce tensions overall”, and the nature of just which approach would be successful in achieving these reduced tensions, especially in light of the fact that so many Islamic groups are in conflict even among themselves as to Islam should be practiced. Again, you might as well be proposing that the solution to world hunger is simply to encourage the West to find ways to feed everyone. It all sounds well and good but the devil is in the details, and you haven’t even begun to address how these many complications can be overcome and made to function in harmony, much less have any kind of impact at all on the likes of ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, etc. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/232 "2015-12-30T09:57:49Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Why should I? I already know the facts, until shown otherwise. And where have your facts come from ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/233 "2015-12-30T09:59:58Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Why should I believe any of this BS when you haven’t managed to post other than unbelievable BS so far? And where is your proof that it is bull shit ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/234 "2015-12-30T10:49:24Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Why not? some of the people on this site will disbelieve me if I tell them black is black, white is white, the question to be asked is are they debating seeking truth or is it just for the sake of argument? [https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof](https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof) Burden of proof rests with the person making the claim. Off you pop, there’s a good Daily Mail reader. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/235 "2015-12-30T10:49:35Z")
How often do members of this board meet up? It is a good question because on most boards people are complete strangers and can say what they like and you will never know if it is fact or fiction. Shouting bull shit just shows you do not know, it does not mean that it is untrue. 9/11 did not happen without an organised team behind it and there is a good chance that they are still living in America going about their very ordinary lives. This started because people got upset seeing a woman in Islamic dress, was it a look of hatred or a look of distrust? I think distrust an rightfully so, Muslims continually deny that there is a problem within Islam and until they clean their house the distrust will continue ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/236 "2015-12-30T10:53:47Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > This started because people got upset seeing a woman in Islamic dress, was it a look of hatred or a look of distrust? I think distrust an rightfully so OK, so you’re a self confessed bigot. Good to know, but do you actually have a point? ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/237 "2015-12-30T12:00:31Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Oh, and for the love of whatever would cause this to happen: Learn how to punctuate and how to make a decent sentence. I am wondering what value you think this adds to a debate other than mocking the other poster in the hope of intimidating them. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/238 "2015-12-30T12:11:48Z")
And what’s your aim? Chastising him, for chastising another poster? Even for a Chief Pendant that’s rich, don’t you think?😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/239 "2015-12-30T12:14:41Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > No. > Noting honour killings are not in any way condoned in the Qur’an, Generally the Qur’an looks askance at sex outside of a husband and his wives, and prescribes beatings but not killings for sexual dalliances. [4:16](http://mquran.org/content/view/509/27/) وَاللَّذَانَ يَأْتِيَانِهَا مِنكُمْ فَآذُوهُمَا فَإِن تَابَا وَأَصْلَحَا فَأَعْرِضُواْ عَنْهُمَا إِنَّ اللّهَ كَانَ تَوَّاباً رَّحِيماً _“When two from among you have committed it, then punish them both by scolding and beating; but if they are remorseful and repent, and make amends, then withdraw from them. Assuredly, God is He Who accepts repentance and returns it with liberal forgiveness, All-Compassionate.”_ Hadith and traditions add more, and the overall historic trend has been to subjugate women to a secondary status where their lives are governed in general by men, and in particular by a set of behavioral codes it is difficult to live beyond. As a rule most Islam-derived cultures have not become very enlightened about casting off the shadow of the Qur’an nor the darkness of Sharia the way western democracies have been able to reject Mosaic law. As such, honor killings may not be officially sanctioned by holy text, but they are defacto sanctioned in many Muslim-majority countries. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/240 "2015-12-30T12:19:26Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > And what’s your aim? Chastising him, for chastising another poster? > > Even for a Chief Pendant that’s rich, don’t you think?😃 Well I suppose I could go tell my mommy. But I think the SDMB is better served by direct objection, and I’m a little surprised no Mod took the trouble to mention that unnecessarily snide remark. It’s on par with deliberately misspelling a poster’s name. Childish, even. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553.md?page=13)