# Are Americans losing it with Muslims? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2015, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553 "2015-12-28T10:25:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/361 "2015-12-31T22:31:23Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > I do not hold them all guilty of acts of terrorism, but they are guilty of not doing everything in their power to put a stop to the violence. You have _got_ to be fucking kidding me. By that reasoning, you are guilty every time a Christian commits a crime. Every time a Brit commits a crime. Every time _anyone_ does anything wrong, _YOU_ are guilty of not doing everything in you power to put a stop to it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/362 "2015-12-31T22:33:28Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > I do not hold them all guilty of acts of terrorism, but they are guilty of not doing everything in their power to put a stop to the violence. They always have the same answer we know nothing, over a thousand Muslims have left the UK to join ISIS and Muslims declare that they know nothing. :rolleyes: That is an interesting claim. Even here in the isolated North America we see the stories of people in Britain and the rest of Europe lured to join ISIS. Perhaps you should pay more attention to the news. We have an idiot congresscritter who made claims similar to yours and who opened “investigations” into the ways that Muslims are protecting the terrorists. The result of his actions, (that I quoted, above), was that we found that the FBI, (prior to his grandstanding), had already noted that Muslims were the most reliable sources reporting–before they happened–attempts to create terrorist acts. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/363 "2015-12-31T22:34:41Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > The so called form of full Islamic dress So-called? By whom? What is this “full Islamic dress?” Is it anything like [this](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/11/03/1415051521823_Image_galleryImage_Shanina_Shaik_announces_s.JPG)? > [@](#): > > does not have its roots in Islam but from a tribe in North Africa (Southern Sahara) where it is practical in protection from the sun during the day and frosts of a night and also very practical during sand storms. Yeah, what? Where are you getting this? ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/364 "2015-12-31T22:35:42Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > All of them? All Muslims in the UK? None of them have assisted the authorities in apprehending terrorists and their supporters? The police are having a massive problem getting information from Muslims. Yes there are a very few heroic Muslims that will speak out and risk condemnation from their community at best and possibly physical violence. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/365 "2015-12-31T22:39:30Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > The police are having a massive problem getting information from Muslims. Yes there are a very few heroic Muslims that will speak out and risk condemnation from their community at best and possibly physical violence. Are you claiming that terrorists that happen to be Muslim tend to share their plans with the entirety of their religious community? How often to you speak out and offer information about RIRA attacks? Do we condemn all Christians for not sharing that information? Note that in the UK RIRA attacks are far far more common than Islamic attacks and that in the US Christians commit way more terrorism too. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/366 "2015-12-31T22:40:56Z")
> [@andros](#): > > So-called? By whom? What is this “full Islamic dress?” Is it anything like [this](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/11/03/1415051521823_Image_galleryImage_Shanina_Shaik_announces_s.JPG)? > > Yeah, what? Where are you getting this? Islam like many religions have picked up a few customs along the way Where am I getting this from an ex-Muslim ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/367 "2015-12-31T22:48:52Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Are you claiming that terrorists that happen to be Muslim tend to share their plans with the entirety of their religious community? > > How often to you speak out and offer information about RIRA attacks? Do we condemn all Christians for not sharing that information? Note that in the UK RIRA attacks are far far more common than Islamic attacks and that in the US Christians commit way more terrorism too. In the U.K. we only have one terrorist group threatening to kill and maim people the others are protest groups. I do not consider those who are attacking abortion clinics and their employees and threatening them with death to be Christians and that they are every bit as evil as the Islamist terrorists and should be dealt with in the same way. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/368 "2015-12-31T22:52:37Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Islam like many religions have picked up a few customs along the way > > Where am I getting this from an ex-Muslim Well Christians got their cannibalistic ritual of Eucharist from the cult of Dionysus, are you also going to force them all to practice in the same way? Whom do you say should be forced to change? The Catholics and their transubstantiation or the protestants? Do the Seventh-day Adventists get in trouble for not doing it as often? Are you are actually trying to claim that religious expression must be based on historical fact and that people need to change their personal beliefs to one standard? \ The only way for this to happen is for all religion to go away, it’s all myths and monsters and almost all observance is modern. \ ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/369 "2015-12-31T22:54:16Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > I do not consider those who are attacking abortion clinics and their employees and threatening them with death to be Christians… I do not consider ISIS, Al Qaeda and their supporters to be Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/370 "2015-12-31T23:05:29Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > I do not consider those who are attacking abortion clinics and their employees and threatening them with death to be Christians Yet they do. And therefore you are guilty of not stopping them. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/371 "2015-12-31T23:08:44Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Eh? Adhering to a particular belief system, your claimed distinction, is something only people can do. Right, and those people should not lose their rights because they wear symbols of brutally oppressive ideologies. They don’t have the right to not be offended, or to be free from criticism for displaying those symbols. > [@](#): > > Further, it’s the activities of people that you’ve been complaining about: people wearing the niqab, for instance. Or, for instance, a Klan Hood. The complaint is about the ideology that the symbol represents. > [@](#): > > I don’t have to invent anything. Check out **Magiver** ’s rant above, or Donald Trump’s various anti-Islamic slurs that are driving his popularity, or polls like [this one](http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/poll-muslim-ban-support-216748) Yes, anti-Muslim bigotry is a real thing. However, most of the violence against Muslim women around the world in reaction to the way they dress, or for the way they practice their religion, is committed by Islamist Muslims, not by non-Muslims. The burqa and niqab are symbols of the ideology containing the codes of modesty and conduct that is so often violently enforced. > [@](#): > > or [this one.](http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/10/poll-majority-americans-view-islam-negatively-including-democrats/) Why are Americans required to have a positive view of Islam? Why should they? There are plenty of reasons not to. > [@](#): > > If you don’t think anti-Muslim bigotry a) exists and b) is widespread, then we aren’t living in the same reality. Anti-Muslim bigotry exists, but having a negative opinion of Islam does not make one a bigot, any more than having a negative view of Christianity makes one bigoted against white people (or any other race among whom the practice of the religion has been prevalent). > [@](#): > > The ideology represented by the niqab isn’t Islam, but rather sub-sets of Islam. Feel free to criticize those sub-sets, Not all of the elements of Islam deserving of criticism are limited to the strain represented by the niqab. Here is this particular discussion what I have been criticizing is knee jerk reactions, equivocations, and ridiculous false equivalencies. > [@](#): > > _as people do constantly_, but don’t expect it to be a general license to attack all Muslims. You are jumping freely between Islam and Muslims, as if belief in Islam was an essential part of the very nature of the particular people who happen to be born to Muslim parents (or who convert to Islam). It is not. People stop believing in Islam every hour of every day. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/372 "2016-01-01T00:28:10Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > The police are having a massive problem getting information from Muslims. Yes there are a very few heroic Muslims that will speak out and risk condemnation from their community at best and possibly physical violence. No. They are having a difficult time getting information from immigrants who happen to be Muslim and who view the police with the suspicion that many, perhaps most, discriminated-against groups regard the enforcers of the dominant power structure. We see the same lack of cooperation with the police among any group that feels they have a reason to fear the police. You are repeating the claim that New York’s Representative King attempted to promote, claiming that Muslims were shielding terrorists. However, in the U.S., with a less discriminated-against community of Muslims, the FBI has pointed out that Muslims have been responsible for providing the information to prevent the majority of planned attacks. Conversely, the group that is most frequently the victims of discrimination, blacks, are often perceived as not being sufficiently helpful to the police. Similarly, in France, while the majority of established Muslims have supported police efforts, the more recent immigrants, who suffer the most discrimination, fear and distrust the police. Slapping the labels “Islamic” or “Muslim” on a problem that has its roots in non-religious foundations is simply an easy way to make scapegoats of a minority group instead of actually trying to see and solve the genuine problems. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/373 "2016-01-01T01:22:12Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > The Christian bible requires the stoning of unfaithful wives and the sale of raped daughters to the rapist…which illustrates the problem. If there is “one law for all” then there is by definition no freedom of religion. And your quote comes from ? ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/374 "2016-01-01T01:25:24Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Yet they do. And therefore you are guilty of not stopping them. I do not live in the states. If I had information of a crime about to be committed I would inform the police as I have done in the past ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/375 "2016-01-01T01:31:32Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > No. They are having a difficult time getting information from immigrants who happen to be Muslim and who view the police with the suspicion that many, perhaps most, discriminated-against groups regard the enforcers of the dominant power structure. > > We see the same lack of cooperation with the police among any group that feels they have a reason to fear the police. You are repeating the claim that New York’s Representative King attempted to promote, claiming that Muslims were shielding terrorists. However, in the U.S., with a less discriminated-against community of Muslims, the FBI has pointed out that Muslims have been responsible for providing the information to prevent the majority of planned attacks. Conversely, the group that is most frequently the victims of discrimination, blacks, are often perceived as not being sufficiently helpful to the police. Similarly, in France, while the majority of established Muslims have supported police efforts, the more recent immigrants, who suffer the most discrimination, fear and distrust the police. Slapping the labels “Islamic” or “Muslim” on a problem that has its roots in non-religious foundations is simply an easy way to make scapegoats of a minority group instead of actually trying to see and solve the genuine problems. Wrong Muslims have no need to fear the police in the UK and they know it ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/376 "2016-01-01T01:33:36Z")
A happy and safe New Year to all ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/377 "2016-01-01T01:39:47Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > I do not live in the states. If I had information of a crime about to be committed I would inform the police as I have done in the past And why do you think anyone other than those planning the crime know anything about it? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/378 "2016-01-01T02:01:40Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Wrong Muslims have no need to fear the police in the UK and they know it Ummm…right, you claim that there is no institutional racism in the UK police forces. [http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/05/met-chief-admits-institutional-racism-claims-have-some-justification](http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/05/met-chief-admits-institutional-racism-claims-have-some-justification) I am guessing that you are middle class and white and thus do not realize the problem from your arguments is from a privileged viewpoint? Note how you have argued that you dismiss bad christian actors as not being christian but do not extend that same right to Islamic people. That position stinks of that level of racism or an ignorance of the situation that exists in your country just as it does in Canada, the US and other places. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/379 "2016-01-01T02:01:59Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > If I try walking into a bank or shopping centre with my face covered I will be stopped but a Muslim woman covered in full Islamic dress will not be stopped and that is wrong, there are laws but the majority of Muslims ignore them [ol][li]Which laws are the majority of Muslims ignoring? Be specific. Be sure to quote the entire law so that you don’t “conveniently” leave out an exemption contained in the law.[/li][li]How do you know they’re ignoring the law as opposed to availing themselves of an exemption contained in the law?[/li][li]How do you know it’s even a majority ignoring the law?[/li][li]Can you provide a reputable citation for your assertions here?[/ol][/li] > [@T.M](#): > > Islam like many religions have picked up a few customs along the way Wait! Are you now admitting that you are not complaining about Islam, but rather about certain cultural practices, said practices also practiced by non-Muslims, such as Christians, in the area that you’re condemning all of Islam for? > [@](#): > > Where am I getting this from an ex-Muslim Yeah, right. :rolleyes: That one individual certainly doesn’t have an axe to grind nor does he have any bias. So, just to be clear, who is this ex-Muslim who is the fount of your extrensive knowledge of Islam? Look, it’s not like you don’t know about the Internet. It’s quite easy to find the actual teachings of the Qur’an. But, of course, you won’t be bothered with doing so. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/380 "2016-01-01T02:05:39Z")
Another cite discrediting the myth of a post racial UK. [ > [@](#): > > From the 1,800 surveys conducted, results showed that, between 2010 and 2014, the number of people who reported seeing Islamophobia directed at someone else spiked from 50 per cent to 82 per cent. > > In the same period, the number of people who said they’d witnessed negative stereotypes about Islam and Muslims rose from 69 per cent to 93.3 per cent, suggesting such experiences have become almost universal for Muslims. ]([New report highlights ‘sharp rise’ in anti-Muslim attacks and ‘environment of hate’ in Britain | The Independent | The Independent](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/new-report-highlights-sharp-rise-in-anti-muslim-attacks-and-environment-of-hate-in-britain-a6739596.html)) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553.md?page=20)