# Are Americans losing it with Muslims? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2015, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553 "2015-12-28T10:25:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/21 "2015-12-28T13:02:48Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Okay. > > How many of the recent international terrorist incidents were performed by women wearing burkas? Internationally it is not uncommon for suicide bombers to be woman another problem is their form of dress is an excellent cover to act as mules to carry weapons and explosives ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/22 "2015-12-28T13:03:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Suppose, instead of a shroud, she was wearing a tight T-shirt that said, “Marriage = One Man + One Woman. Period.” > > Does that change your answer? Did this particular shroud, or burqa or hijab or whatever she was wearing, carry some offensive political slogan? Did it carry a slogan that proclaimed an intent to intrude and meddle in your personal values on matters that concerned them not in the least? Or was the person wearing the traditional Islamic garb possibly just minding their own business? So, no, it didn’t change the other poster’s answer and it wouldn’t change mine, either. Although realistically, if I saw the kind of trailer trash you’re describing, it would remind me why I never go to Walmart if I can possibly avoid it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/23 "2015-12-28T13:03:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Suppose, instead of a shroud, she was wearing a tight T-shirt that said, “Marriage = One Man + One Woman. Period.” > > Does that change your answer? First, that is different, because an expressly political t-shirt is intended to be provocative, whereas in theory, a burka is not. (although in practice, in the US, it might be intended to be provocative.) Second, I see t-shirts with political statements I disagree with somewhat frequently, and unless a friend is wearing it, I just move along and continue whatever I was doing, and I imagine that’s what most everyone here does, too. I certainly don’t threaten bodily harm on people for espousing unpleasant ideas in public. And I hope you don’t, either. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/24 "2015-12-28T13:03:54Z")
Really? Now it’s about a possible hidden weapon? You’re kidding? Right? Because any day at a football game anyone could be hiding a weapon under their jersey’s and outrageous outfits and no one gives a shit! And you cannot possibly be trying to say “Oh but we do judge by attire, all the time!” As though there were no difference between thinking that guy’s a hipster and that person should be treated differently and deserves our open scorn because I’m an islamaphobe. Just how freaking afraid are you people? You’re afraid a terrorist will sneak in pretending to be a refugee. Has it happened? No! Straight up hateful islamaphobia. And you know what the difference is why some Islamic people don’t intigrate to your satisfaction? Seething waves of loathing is why. You’re distrustful and openly scornful, why would they not cling together! The difference mate, is in the welcome. It’s that freaking simple. The Syrian refugees we take into this country will become the very finest of citizens because they will be embraced and welcomed, (currently there are more sponsoring groups than we can bring in refugees to meet the demand!). Check out our current Minister of Defense, Harji Sajjan, if you doubt what I’m saying. And you know what else they’ll do, they’ll drive our economy. Because there will be no stopping them when they are granted a fair chance to change their lives. People who’ve been denied every opportunity, once given it, are freaking unstoppable. They won’t be happy doing what you do, working a fine job, paying taxes having a good life. They will create freaking dynasties. They will achieve large. And in the process they will challenge every industry they impact to keep up. Competition, baby. Americans are all freaking talk about land of the free, huddle masses, and free markets, in my opinion. You’re kind of an embarrassment to your own stated ideals a lot of the time, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/25 "2015-12-28T13:14:44Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Did this particular shroud, or burqa or hijab or whatever she was wearing, carry some offensive political slogan? Did it carry a slogan that proclaimed an intent to intrude and meddle in your personal values on matters that concerned them not in the least? Or was the person wearing the traditional Islamic garb possibly just minding their own business? You don’t think a Burqa by itself oppresses, and is a symbol of oppression of, women and thus deserves at least some pushback? ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/26 "2015-12-28T13:14:58Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > If you were to replace “the followers of Islam” with “some followers…” you might be nearer the truth. I live in Tower Hamlets, which has a very strong Bangladeshi community and smaller groups of people from various other broadly Islamic countries: and your picture of society is simply not true for us. For every handful of over-testosteroned boys in both white and Muslim communities who make aggressive noises about the other and try to “claim” territories, there are thousands of people going about their ordinary business and getting along with each other perfectly well. The problem is Who are the some followers of Islam? we do not know because Islam is keeping quiet and not coming forward with information you live in London so have read the same headlines that Islam is refusing to cooperate with anti terrorist police ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/27 "2015-12-28T13:15:55Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > We are judging people by their attire because we cannot identify them, their dress, means we do not know if that are carrying an assault rifle or a bomb remember that we are under the threat of a Islamist terrorist attack and London England has an Islamic population of 1 million+ 😕 Why would they carry an assault rifle or bomb _on their head_? That’s the only part of the body they’re covering that we’re not used to seeing covered in the West. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/28 "2015-12-28T13:20:33Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > … Islam is refusing to cooperate with anti terrorist police So Islam is not assisting police with their enquiries? Can’t they arrest him for that? I mean, if it was me, I probably wouldn’t get arrested for not cooperating with the police, but I don’t see why they can’t put this Islam person in jail. With a name like that, he’s bound to be guilty of something! Is Islam his first name or his last name? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/29 "2015-12-28T13:31:49Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > The other day while Christmas shopping at WalMart a Muslim couple was there. The husband was dressed fairly normal but the wife had the full length black outfit and had her head covered and her face partially covered. They got more than a few stares and they was many an angry look. It doesn’t qualify as an “angry look”, but seeing the Muslim male half of the couple bouncing around in shorts and short sleeves on a hot summer day while the Mrs. swelters in her head-to-toe black robes tends to provoke an unspoken sentiment in the direction of the male, i.e. “You’re an asshole.” ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/30 "2015-12-28T13:39:48Z")
And nuns with their head covering habits? Are they oppressed? Receiving your open scorn? Are you prepared to be judged by what you ‘allow’ your wife to wear. How ultimately dismissive is it to assume she wears it because she’s being oppressed or allowed. Freaking educate yourselves. It represents piety to the wearer and modesty. And it’s her choice, just ask her! But it doesn’t matter either way, because it ain’t your business. Are you being scornful to oppressed Amish women? No, because it’s about what you fear. Period. And no, it doesn’t ‘qualify as an angry look’, it’s seething resentment and if you think they don’t feel it you’re being disengenuos, in my opinion! ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/31 "2015-12-28T13:41:33Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > No, it doesn’t change my answer! > > Really? We’re down to judging people by their attire? You cannot be serious! We’re not talking about banning or legislating clothing. We’re talking about judging people based on what they wear. Two very different things. I’m perfectly happy to judge someone based on what they wear, and for all your ostentatious outrage, I’m pretty sure you are as well. Are you really telling me you wouldn’t judge someone wearing Klan robes in public? I certainly would. How about a T-Shirt that said ‘Eat, Sleep, Rape, Repeat’? That’s an [actual](https://thump.vice.com/en_uk/article/what-the-eat-sleep-rape-repeat-shirt-at-coachella-says-about-rape-culture-at-music-festivals) T-shirt, by the way. If I saw someone wearing something like that, I’d judge the shit out of them. Frankly, if you wouldn’t, you’re not the sort of person I’d want to know. So, let’s assume that, contrary to your protestations, you’re not actually above judging people based on what they wear. The niqab (and, I assume, based on the OP’s description that we’re talking about a niqab, rather than a hijab or jilbab) is a garment - devised by men - that is explicitly designed to equate piety with the complete and total invisibility of women. Of course, the Koran and the Hadith both contain plenty of spurious horseshit bafflegab about how “respectable” women should _aspire_ to extinguish their personal identities, and no doubt many women who choose to wear the niqab do so because they think it’s the righteous thing to do. That doesn’t mean I have to approve of it. ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/32 "2015-12-28T13:45:35Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > And nuns with their head covering habits? Are they oppressed? Receiving your open scorn? That’s a stupid comparison. A nun’s habit doesn’t prevent me from seeing her face. Thus, the garment doesn’t blot out her personal identity. If it _did_, if a nun’s habit included a face covering which made her impossible to recognise, I’d be as opposed to it as I am to niqabs. But it doesn’t. So I’m not. ---
**Author:** ![Jayhawker\_Soule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@Jayhawker\_Soule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayhawker_Soule)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/33 "2015-12-28T13:47:15Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Americans have been told to be tolerant but I think our tolerance is coming to an end. Trump may have been a little extreme but he isnt far off either. > > What do you all think? It seems that your tolerance came to an end some time ago, and that your bigotry is cancerous. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/34 "2015-12-28T13:47:25Z")
I’m pretty sure I’m exactly the kind of of person you don’t want to know. In spades! ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/35 "2015-12-28T13:47:38Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > You don’t think a Burqa by itself oppresses, and is a symbol of oppression of, women and thus deserves at least some pushback? And do you think the reaction described in the OP – “more than a few stares … [and] many an angry look” – was because people felt so gosh-darned sorry that the woman was supposedly being oppressed? Because I don’t. I think you’re just trying to rationalize what was really going on, which was basically xenophobia, bigotry, and a generalized irrational fear of the unknown and unfamiliar. I seriously doubt that any of those yahoos even knew the traditional meaning of burquas and hijabs. If the woman is indeed being oppressed by some hypothetical ruthless husband and made to wear this stuff against her will then we have legal and social systems to protect her. If, however, she is freely participating in a traditional religious and cultural practice then it’s not anyone else’s damn business. They should focus their stares and anger at the junk that Walmart is trying to sell them. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/36 "2015-12-28T13:50:40Z")
I think that racism is another front in the culture war; that red state America has decided that they are okay with just being overtly racist and that it is one more sign that America is completely polarized into two distinct cultures, one looking backward and the other trying to move forward. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/37 "2015-12-28T14:03:56Z")
Saddest combination I’ve ever seen in my life: Nationalism combined with parochialism combined with ingrained racism combined with irresponsible, unprofessional corporate media combined with a clown car of presidential candidates. I have no idea how the country can grow and mature. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/38 "2015-12-28T14:16:31Z")
Frankly, I don’t care whether the woman is oppressed or not. It is more that someone who is wearing a Burqa (or a particular style of beard and robes) gets assosciated with those people that kill gays, apostates, people that offend them and just innocent bystanders. If the Catholic church started again with burning heretics, I have no doubt that nuns would get angry stares too. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/39 "2015-12-28T14:24:26Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Trump may have been a little extreme but he isnt far off either. Far off what? The truth, or the mood of a dangerous and reactionary segment of the public? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/40 "2015-12-28T14:26:19Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Frankly, I don’t care whether the woman is oppressed or not. > It is more that someone who is wearing a Burqa (or a particular style of beard and robes) gets assosciated with those people that kill gays, apostates, people that offend them and just innocent bystanders. > > If the Catholic church started again with burning heretics, I have no doubt that nuns would get angry stares too. Did you forget that part where your country invaded and killed half a million people, a whole bunch of the women and children blown into a thousand pieces. And then re-elected the same guy. And you think some lady minding her own business and shopping in a mall is … what now? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553.md?page=3)