# Are Americans losing it with Muslims? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2015, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553 "2015-12-28T10:25:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/421 "2016-01-01T21:54:14Z")
> [@botsgotme](#): > > This just in-the Police chief of Munich, Germany announced that his men foiled a plot by 5-7 muslims to suicide bomb the train station. So the fear of muslim terrorists seems well-founded. There is a difference, of course, between a legitimate fear of terrorist acts committed by Muslims and an illegitimate fear of Muslims and Islam because some adherents are engaged in terrorist acts. Otherwise, one needs to acknowledge the “legitimate”" fear of [Christian acts destroying nations](http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2011/05/sex-trafficking-201105). ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/422 "2016-01-02T00:15:50Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > If you mean in the sense of the Christian and secular authorities among the social workers and police effectively condoning the crimes by their refusal to act, possibly not. Otherwise, [not really accurate](http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2011/05/sex-trafficking-201105). > > (It would be interesting to see an actual breakdown of Rotherham perps who actually prayed five times daily or attended the mosque, Fridays, as opposed to guys who happened to have had parents who immigrated from Pakistan.) You know exactly what I meant, and it illl behooves you to pretend otherwise. Obviously, there are Christians (and even Christan clergy) who’ve committed sexual crimes. But when that happens, nobody sits on the story for fear of seeming anti-Christian. And no one at the Boston Globe saw a need to preface every story on Bernard Law with “Most Christians would never molest boys.” ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/423 "2016-01-02T00:51:17Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Obviously, there are Christians (and even Christan clergy) who’ve committed sexual crimes. But when that happens, nobody sits on the story for fear of seeming anti-Christian. Help me out here - the Rotherham thing was indeed fear of seeming anti-Muslim (as opposed to not caring much about poor girls, or just total incompetence)…how does that reflect badly on Islam or Muslims? It reflects badly on the police. > [@astorian](#): > > And no one at the Boston Globe saw a need to preface every story on Bernard Law with “Most Christians would never molest boys.” Christians are 70% of the US population. They aren’t capable of being Othered or subject to a violent backlash, nor would anyone think that what one Christian does tarnishes all Christians, because Americans all know many, many Christians on the off chance they aren’t themselves Christians. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/424 "2016-01-02T01:06:38Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > You know exactly what I meant, and it illl behooves you to pretend otherwise. I know what you meant and your presentation meant that you wanted to spin the story to create an impression not supported by the facts. The slavers were, indeed, Pakistani immigrants, few of whom were practicing Muslims. The scandal was that the girls who were enslaved were dismissed by the social workers and the police (who were Christians or non-believers) when they tried to report their rapes. There is plenty of blame to go around, there, with cultural attitudes toward women and the poor, not religion, playing the greatest role in the tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/425 "2016-01-02T01:24:18Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Help me out here - the Rotherham thing was indeed fear of seeming anti-Muslim (as opposed to not caring much about poor girls, or just total incompetence)…how does that reflect badly on Islam or Muslims? It reflects badly on the police. > > . Also there were the court cases in Rochdale, Liverpool, Oxford all concerning Muslim men who were found guilty there are also investigations in Manchester, Blackpool, Derby etc. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/426 "2016-01-02T01:33:05Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Also there were the court cases in Rochdale, Liverpool, Oxford all concerning Muslim men who were found guilty there are also investigations in Manchester, Blackpool, Derby etc. Ok. And? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/427 "2016-01-02T02:24:29Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Obviously, there are Christians (and even Christan clergy) who’ve committed sexual crimes. But when that happens, nobody sits on the story for fear of seeming anti-Christian. They sat on those stories for the better part of a century. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/428 "2016-01-02T02:25:20Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Ok. And? Our so called leaders both local council and national of all parties are complicit in an almighty cover up in the name of do not let us upset the Muslims, it took 6 years hard work by a right wing group to get the police to even think about investigating complaints, it now looks as though there could be up to 3,000 complaints in Manchester alone. It is not so much who the offenders are it is about local and national government running scared of upsetting the Muslims and allowing these deviants to continue with their evil crimes ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/429 "2016-01-02T02:30:21Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > They sat on those stories for the better part of a century. The church of all denominations have been covering up their evil sins for years, it is that certain Muslim men have been doing it on such a large scale. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/430 "2016-01-02T02:51:38Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Our so called leaders both local council and national of all parties are complicit in an almighty cover up in the name of do not let us upset the Muslims, it took 6 years hard work by a right wing group to get the police to even think about investigating complaints, it now looks as though there could be up to 3,000 complaints in Manchester alone. National leaders, really? I wouldn’t have thought they’d be up on what the local cops are choosing not to investigate. > [@](#): > > It is not so much who the offenders are it is about local and national government running scared of upsetting the Muslims and allowing these deviants to continue with their evil crimes Ok, that’s all I was getting at. Bad policing is bad policing. ---
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/431 "2016-01-02T02:56:32Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > The other day while Christmas shopping at WalMart a Muslim couple was there. The husband was dressed fairly normal but the wife had the full length black outfit and had her head covered and her face partially covered. They got more than a few stares and they was many an angry look. > > Americans have been told to be tolerant but I think our tolerance is coming to an end. Trump may have been a little extreme but he isnt far off either. > > What do you all think? I think immigrants should be under pressure to assimlate. This country is at its best a melting pot. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/432 "2016-01-02T03:02:24Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Our so called leaders both local council and national of all parties are complicit in an almighty cover up in the name of do not let us upset the Muslims, it took 6 years hard work by a right wing group to get the police to even think about investigating complaints, it now looks as though there could be up to 3,000 complaints in Manchester alone. It is not so much who the offenders are it is about local and national government running scared of upsetting the Muslims and allowing these deviants to continue with their evil crimes That’s right, you have to refer to them as Muslim because you choose to never use the words Pakistani or immigrant. Any evidence that they were being encouraged by the local Imams? Any evidence that they even prayed, daily? They are Muslim in the same way that various religious pedophiles and ephebophiles have been Christian–it is simply part of the background culture. Just as the authorities are Christian as part of the background culture without actually displaying any Christian values. And the whole “don’t upset the Muslims” claim looks a lot like “I didn’t do my job, so let me shift the blame to someone else.” How many police or social workers took action and were reprimanded for anti-religious attitudes? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/433 "2016-01-02T03:03:59Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > National leaders, really? I wouldn’t have thought they’d be up on what the local cops are choosing not to investigate. Once it hit the news media that it had been not investigated for the better part of a decade, the national government was dragged into it,kicking and screaming. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/434 "2016-01-02T03:17:13Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Once it hit the news media that it had been not investigated for the better part of a decade, the national government was dragged into it,kicking and screaming. But **T.M.** said they were complicit in a cover-up…that’s not at all the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/435 "2016-01-02T09:51:29Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Actually, the heretic Marcion was kicked out of the church around the year 150 for making that very claim. > Now you are not only ignoring the social realities of the situation, you are denying your own (purported) theology. > > And yet, you, yourself have claimed that the “Muslims” are separated from the rest of you . > [This article in The Guardian](http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2015/aug/13/muslim-ghettos-poverty-and-exclusion-in-birmingham-in-pictures) disagrees with your claim that there are no ghettos. In addition, scholarly works such as “Does Britain Have Ghettos?” by Ceri Peach in _Transactions of the Institute of British Geographers_, Vol. 21, No. 1 (1996), pp. 216-235, have noted that while the form of British ghettos differs from those in the U.S., they do exist. Heck, even Muslim baiter Nigel Farage claims that there are ghettos, so I doubt that your perception is accurate. . The so called Muslim Ghetto in reality is no different to the estate where I live and several other areas, the only real difference is that Muslims prefer to have Muslims as neighbours, The photo of the clothing bin was of interest as it was for a Muslim charity, we have a clothing exchange that is open to all whatever their race, creed or colour, also a well used food bank, on our estate 1 in 4 children live under the poverty line, so not the nice middle class area that some of you thought. Be very careful with articles about Nigel Farage he is very much miss-quoted, and those who are against him keep trying to play the racist card, I have heard him speak many times and read newspaper reports the next day where the reporter must have been at another meeting. I have spoken to him on more than one occasion, he and the party he leads (UKIP) is about the U.K. leaving the common market and regaining our sovereignty and make our own laws not the made by unelected beurocrats based in Brussels and regain control of our borders, we are a small country and we are taking in 350,000 immigrants a year, we need to have to call a halt to immigration while we get our house in order, reintroducing immergration at a level of 50,000 per year, I am talking about economic migrants and nor refugee’s who should be given priority mpory halt to ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/436 "2016-01-02T10:34:09Z")
And here’s a nice photo slideshow of some of those non-existent ghettos in Birmingham. > **[Muslim Ghettos: poverty and exclusion in Birmingham – in pictures](https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2015/aug/13/muslim-ghettos-poverty-and-exclusion-in-birmingham-in-pictures)** > > ‘One day I realised I had grown up in a place that had been ghettoised,’ says photographer Mahtab Hussain, whose series Muslim Ghettos shows the parts of Birmingham shaped by immigration ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/437 "2016-01-02T10:52:38Z")
T.M.: Are you going to answer my questions? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/438 "2016-01-02T11:01:17Z")
[Here is a fun survey](http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/01/01/anti-muslim-response-in-poll-of-religious-freedom-disturbing.html). It seems that a number of Americans think that Muslims are not so deserving of their constitutional rights, but Christians are. Well, to be accurate, those Americans think that _some_ Christians such as Mormons are also not so deserving of those same constitutional rights. And, of course, the Jews aren’t considered as deserving as are the “right kind” of Christians. Ain’t bigotry fun? ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/439 "2016-01-02T11:33:42Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > National leaders, really? I wouldn’t have thought they’d be up on what the local cops are choosing not to investigate. > > Ok, that’s all I was getting at. Bad policing is bad policing. Not bad policing, the police take their instructions from the Home Office and they are run by the government. We have a different system to America, Town Mayors are not voted for by the public and the position is ceremonial. also our judges are appointed not elected ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/440 "2016-01-02T11:37:36Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > The so called Muslim Ghetto in reality is no different to the estate where I live and several other areas, So what? No one said they were of different construction or organization. > [@T.M](#): > > the only real difference is that Muslims prefer to have Muslims as neighbours, meh This is the oldest complaint against any group: “they don’t want to associate with us.” The reality is that as the newest immigrants arrive, they tend to try to live near people who come from the same place who can help them adjust. When they are then discriminated against, they tend to not move out into the rest of the community. Muslims have been immigrating to the UK since Britain invaded the subcontinent and the earlier arrivals mixed in with the British population and assimilated long ago. In recent years, there has been a larger influx of people from the rural Mirpur region of Pakistan and Sylhet areas of Bangladesh and they have faced more opposition and been relegated to lower jobs, trapping them in the communities where they landed. They are following the paths of immigrants, the world over, and claims that they are clanish or refuse to assimilate are nothing more than the standard claims of nativists the world over. Throwing their religion into the mix is simply one more way to create a hostile narrative that ignores reality. (Note the similarity between your accusations and earlier accusations against Jews.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553.md?page=23)