# Are Americans losing it with Muslims? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2015, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553 "2015-12-28T10:25:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/41 "2015-12-28T14:33:12Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > And nuns with their head covering habits? Are they oppressed? Receiving your open scorn? > > Are you prepared to be judged by what you ‘allow’ your wife to wear. How ultimately dismissive is it to assume she wears it because she’s being oppressed or allowed. Freaking educate yourselves. It represents piety to the wearer and modesty. And it’s her choice, just ask her! > > But it doesn’t matter either way, because it ain’t your business. Are you being scornful to oppressed Amish women? > > No, because it’s about what you fear. Period. > > And no, it doesn’t ‘qualify as an angry look’, it’s seething resentment and if you think they don’t feel it you’re being disengenuos, in my opinion! And if you think that there’s no pressure within the Muslim community towards the wearing of burqa / niqab you’re also sorely mistaken. If it’s truly an individual choice (as it is for one friend of mine) - then so be it. If it has arisen out of community pressure or spousal direction - then it is deserving of scorn. What I have experienced of the community is that it can be a mixture of both ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/42 "2015-12-28T14:33:32Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Did you forget that part where your country invaded and killed half a million people, a whole bunch of the women and children blown into a thousand pieces. And then re-elected the same guy. > > And you think some lady minding her own business and shopping in a mall is … what now? I’m not from the US. I’m from a traditionally very tolerant country, where we had a critic of of Islam brutally murdered in the street. Like a lot of other countries we have been sticking our heads in the sand ever since and pretend the problem doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/43 "2015-12-28T14:36:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Suppose, instead of a shroud, she was wearing a tight T-shirt that said, “Marriage = One Man + One Woman. Period.” Suppose it was a white guy, wearing a t-shirt that said, “No more baby parts”. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/44 "2015-12-28T14:48:59Z")
Yeah, I think I should start judging all the rednecks I see around here as potentially dangerous, wannabe militia types and act accordingly. Stand my ground and assume a possible all out assault. You know, used to be the Dope was one of the most tolerant, accepting places I knew. Now, it’s beginning to look like refuges from the YouTube comments section land here in their spare time. No wonder this place is dying. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/45 "2015-12-28T14:50:07Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > So Islam is not assisting police with their enquiries? Can’t they arrest him for that? I mean, if it was me, I probably wouldn’t get arrested for not cooperating with the police, but I don’t see why they can’t put this Islam person in jail. With a name like that, he’s bound to be guilty of something! > > Is Islam his first name or his last name? There are 1.1 million followers of Islam in London alone out of a population of 8 million ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/46 "2015-12-28T14:53:26Z")
Popular guy, that Islam. Shouldn’t be too hard for the police to find him. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/47 "2015-12-28T14:55:05Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Internationally it is not uncommon for suicide bombers to be woman another problem is their form of dress is an excellent cover to act as mules to carry weapons and explosives It’s a bit of a challenge to follow your posts with so many fused sentences involved. Could you please use a period now and then? It would just make things easier. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/48 "2015-12-28T14:57:15Z")
They’re not going to make sense no matter how much punctuation is added. ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/49 "2015-12-28T14:59:02Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > You know, used to be the Dope was one of the most tolerant, accepting places I knew. Now, it’s beginning to look like refuges from the YouTube comments section land here in their spare time. No wonder this place is dying. What’s tolerant about tolerating a garment which erases the identities of women? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/50 "2015-12-28T15:16:16Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > And if you think that there’s no pressure within the Muslim community towards the wearing of burqa / niqab you’re also sorely mistaken. If it’s truly an individual choice (as it is for one friend of mine) - then so be it. > > If it has arisen out of community pressure or spousal direction - then it is deserving of scorn. > > What I have experienced of the community is that it can be a mixture of both Personal choice and community expectations are a feedback loop. I could not tell whether it is my Wife’s personal choice to keep her breasts covered even at the beach or if it were due to community pressure. This does mark her as an outsider who refuses to integrate at some of the Caribbean beaches we have visited. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/51 "2015-12-28T15:18:02Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Americans have been told to be tolerant but I think our tolerance is coming to an end. What do you specifically propose? What will you personally do? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/52 "2015-12-28T15:23:30Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > My question was a rhetorical device. > > Your question was just weird. Did you seriously expect that **elbows** would answer any differently than what was just posted? I have the impression that plenty of posters on this board would feel perfectly sanguine about directing opprobrious glares at the wearer of the T-shirt I described, and at the same time perfectly willing to inveigh against those who glare at the woman described in the OP. But it’s an impression. I asked my question to confirm, or dispel, my impression. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/53 "2015-12-28T15:31:58Z")
Your impression is nothing more than a reflection of your own misguided morality. We’ve have outright said we wouldn’t care, but you can’t fathom that might actually be the case. You are a sad, sad being, for all your words, when you tip your hand in this fashion. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/54 "2015-12-28T15:32:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have the impression that plenty of posters on this board would feel perfectly sanguine about directing opprobrious glares at the wearer of the T-shirt I described, and at the same time perfectly willing to inveigh against those who glare at the woman described in the OP. > > But it’s an impression. I asked my question to confirm, or dispel, my impression. A Better example would be an Old Order Amish woman, dressed typically as they do. Your hypothetical injects an explicit political message whereas the original scene described in the OP does not. My experience is that the Amish woman would garner stares, but not glares. Also, I have no idea what the OP is getting at. It sounds like he agrees with Trump, but it’s unclear. He needs to clarify that. And what does he mean by “losing it”? ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/55 "2015-12-28T15:34:20Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Your impression is nothing more than a reflection of your own misguided morality. We’ve have outright said we wouldn’t care, but you can’t fathom that might actually be the case. You are a sad, sad being, for all your words, when you tip your hand in this fashion. Let’s just cut to the chase. Is there _any_ garment a person could wear which might cause you to judge them negatively? Any at all? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/56 "2015-12-28T15:35:51Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > There are 1.1 million followers of Islam in London alone out of a population of 8 million And yet, amazingly, those other 6.9 million have somehow managed to survive the constant daily onslaught of savage Muslim murder attempts. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/57 "2015-12-28T15:38:50Z")
First off, I call bull shit over “concern” some of you islamphobes have over these “poor” oppressed women. And even if I did take your statements at face value, what fucking arrogance! This may come as a shock to you, but most of these devout female followers of the faith are very comfortable in their burqas, they don’t feel oppressed and they don’t feel like victims. Heck, I dated a very progressive Muslim woman at one time. She never wore any of the traditional garb, and she was having sex with me outside of marriage, so to say the least, she was far from typical. I remember one time we were at Walmart (heh, what is it with Walmart?) in the check out line. All I did was give her a little peck on the lips. When we got into my truck, her face was all red and she was giggling like a little school girl. When I asked her what she was all giggles about, she told me: “You kissed me in the store! In public!” I had no idea that would put her out of her element so much. (I actually felt kind of bad) The ponit I’m trying to make is, if a progressive Muslim girl like that get so out of her element over something so innocent that most of us westerners would hardly even take notice of, I can only immagine how uncorfortable a more devout Muslim woman would feel if you told her to go out in public completely exposed. You might as well ask them to be naked. Geez ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/58 "2015-12-28T15:39:51Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > As T.M. noted, it is that strain that are not playing the tolerance game together with the rest of the planet. People are starting to notice and are getting fed up with it. Now you notice. Did you notice that our governments killed about a million people (at least half were civilians) in 5 different countries across the Middle East in the last 15 years or so? We have destabilized the Middle East for at least a generation and you are just now starting to notice that “they are not playing the tolerance game”? > [@T.M](#): > > We are judging people by their attire because we cannot identify them, their dress, means we do not know if that are carrying an assault rifle or a bomb remember that we are under the threat of a Islamist terrorist attack and London England has an Islamic population of 1 million+ Yeah. And the [Islamic population of the world is over a billion and a half](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam). In fact 1 out of every 4 people is a follower of Islam. You hate and fear 1 quarter of the world. I wonder how they feel about you? I mean the fact that [over 100 hate crimes were perpetrated against Muslims in the week after the Paris bombings in London alone](http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/dec/27/uk-anti-muslim-hate-crime-soars) probably means they are more afraid of you than you are of them. Or at least they should be. [In 2014 there were more than 500 hate crimes perpetrated against Muslims in London](http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-29424165). I wonder why some of them (remember, [the Paris attackers were mostly Frenchman](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34832512)) have reason to lash out in fear and hatred. Humans are terrible. The race baiting being done by some of our would be leaders here in the US is disgusting. The US is a melting pot and it has always been one of the things that makes us strong. I find it really disturbing that a significant fraction of my countrymen think it is a good thing when Muslim people die. Disturbing that a large fraction of my countryman want to bomb the desert [until the sand glows](http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2015/12/05/cruz-carpet-bomb-isis-into-oblivion/76796154/?from=global&sessionKey=&autologin=). I find it disturbing that some believe [bombing Mecca and Medina](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7ceyrBw50Y) [is a good idea](http://www.debate.org/opinions/should-america-nuke-the-middle-east) or that it would be a good idea to [bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg). Don’t get me wrong. I believe ISIS is an atrocity and needs to be wiped out to the last man. I think the Al Qaeda Terrorists are criminals that need to be hunted and killed like dogs. Make no mistake, we are fighting a war on Islamic extremism and there are people out there that are terrible and need to be fought and killed. But this racist condemnation of all people who follow this religion does not help. The [vast majority of Islam has condemned ISIS](http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/commonwordcommonlord/2014/08/think-muslims-havent-condemned-isis-think-again.html). The vast majority of the million Muslims that live in London are people who just want to live their lives in peace. Sure, you can find polls out there that[a significant fraction of Muslims support ISIS](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/), but I can find polls out there that 30% of Americas [want to bomb Agrabah](http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/18/republican-voters-bomb-agrabah-disney-aladdin-donald-trump) (the mythical city in the Disney movie Aladdin). You, or at least people like you, are helping to radicalize them. You realize that right? Every time a [mosque is burned down](https://www.aclu.org/map/nationwide-anti-mosque-activity) or a [Muslim is attacked](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2013/fbi-bias-crimes-against-muslims-remain-high-levels), you are giving ISIS and their ilk more of an opportunity to radicalize our countryman. The world is fucking terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/59 "2015-12-28T15:41:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But it’s an impression. I asked my question to confirm, or dispel, my impression. A raised eyebrow, perhaps. Maybe things are different in Virginia but in Florida I see people making unfortunate fashion choices all the time. Especially at Wal-Mart. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/60 "2015-12-28T16:02:36Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Americans have been\*\* told to be tolerant\*\* but I think our tolerance is coming to an end. Trump may have been a little extreme but he isnt far off either. Sounds like duress to me. Declan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553.md?page=4)