# Are Americans losing it with Muslims? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2015, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553 "2015-12-28T10:25:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/581 "2016-01-05T21:02:54Z")
So what? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/582 "2016-01-05T22:52:49Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Here we go again. Pretty sad excuse for documentation. Even IF I took it seriously, your source cheats unforgivably by using 1980 as the start date. Regardless, since Muslims made up less than 1% of the U.S. population during most of that time, it’s not at all reassuring that they committed 6% of terror incidents in America. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/583 "2016-01-06T01:01:38Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Pretty sad excuse for documentation. Even IF I took it seriously, your source cheats unforgivably by using 1980 as the start date. The source is an FBI report that used that date range. It’s linked to in that article. > [@](#): > > Regardless, since Muslims made up less than 1% of the U.S. population during most of that time, it’s not at all reassuring that they committed 6% of terror incidents in America. They also cite another database that goes back to 1970. If you use that dataset, the share drops to 2.5%. Considering all that the West has done to fuck over majority-Muslim countries, that’s shockingly low. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/584 "2016-01-06T02:52:51Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > No as the idea has no sense any more than the idea of the citation to ‘the average christian’ covering every christian from the Nigeria to the Ecuador, from the Nigerian protestant to the Ecuadoran catholic. > It is a stupid thing, showing gross ignorance. No problem if you don’t think there is an average Islam-driven outcome in Muslim-majority nations. Gimme your idea of which Muslim-majority nation has the BEST outcome for: 1. Women’s rights and privileges to dress and act as they please in the public square 2. Women’s opportunities 3. Freedom to be publicly apostate if you born into a Muslim family 4. Freedom to publicly defend and promote any position you want, including ridiculing any religion you want or any religious belief you want 5. Freedom to wear a TShirt with a nice cartoon of Mohammed on it and a caption, “Mo the Bozo” Gimme your best and most shining example, please, that I may learn. Thanks in advance. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/585 "2016-01-06T03:11:27Z")
Sort of an [average](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab_by_country#/media/File:Map3.10RequiredDressCodesforWomen_compressed.jpg)…although “dress code” is not really a substitute for “practical requirement” if you don’t want to be harassed and/or ostracized. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/586 "2016-01-06T03:12:53Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > The source is an FBI report that used that date range. It’s linked to in that article. > They also cite another database that goes back to 1970. If you use that dataset, the share drops to 2.5%. Considering all that the West has done to fuck over majority-Muslim countries, that’s shockingly low. Start on 9/12/2001, and the numbers look very different. 45 deaths caused by Muslims, 48 by non-Muslims. A virtual tie. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/587 "2016-01-06T03:22:44Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Pretty sad excuse for documentation. Even IF I took it seriously, your source cheats unforgivably by using 1980 as the start date. Why is starting at 1980 a cheat? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/588 "2016-01-06T04:29:16Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Start on 9/12/2001, and the numbers look very different. 45 deaths caused by Muslims, 48 by non-Muslims. A virtual tie. Ah, but that’s you cheating unforgivably by using 2001 as the start date. Or is there a valid reason to ignore most of the data? People killed before 2001 remain dead, and surely if Islam compels political violence, we’ll see that throughout history, right? Also, note that you’ve interjected your own metric - body count - whereas the source you’re rejecting counts incidents instead. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/589 "2016-01-06T05:36:49Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > The source is an FBI report that used that date range. It’s linked to in that article. > They also cite another database that goes back to 1970. If you use that dataset, the share drops to 2.5%. Considering all that the West has done to fuck over majority-Muslim countries, that’s shockingly low. When you consider that the most pessimistic count of sovereign citizens limits them to 300K or less than 1% yet that they are responsible for 3X the number of terrorist attacks the argument for xenophobic policies against those of the muslim faith really falls down. With the relative comfort that these people live in compared to decades of war and yes even massive amounts of evil from the US government the number of muslim terrorists is shockingly low. If they were as violent as the other side claims there should be a far more dramatic difference in the statistics yet the Tumps and Bundys and other bigoted people of the world tend to propagate more evil. I think this entitles you to ignore these ridiculous claims as purely being based in ignorance and bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/590 "2016-01-06T14:03:18Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Where they exist, gender specific prohibitions of exposed nipples are indeed oppressive to women, and are vestiges of the puritanical, shame based cultural norms which we have mostly transcended. These laws are controversial and have been opposed and overturned in many places. I’m not the one you need to tell that to. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/591 "2016-01-06T14:05:00Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Depends on where “here” is. Where they exist they are controversial and [often protested.](http://www.vox.com/2015/9/16/9341015/free-the-nipple-naomi-campbell) (warning: horrible, dangerous, insulting female nipples) We should just force all women to bare their nipples. To free them of their oppression. Ban the burka and the bikini top! ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/592 "2016-01-06T17:05:47Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Start on 9/12/2001, and the numbers look very different. 45 deaths caused by Muslims, 48 by non-Muslims. A virtual tie. Splendid stuff. So if you get to stipulate a specific date range, the numbers support your prejudice. Who’d have thought it! Now, what are your thoughts on classifying the people we’ve bombed in Iraq et al as terrorist deaths? Just the civilian ones, obviously. For some reason I’m guessing you’re going to claim that when we call it war, that’s fine and good, but when they call it war, well gosh darn it that’s terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/593 "2016-01-06T17:23:20Z")
I had a lot of ideas to share about this thread but I’m going to spare you all the torture. I read a lot about Muslims killing other Muslims. If they’re going to be crazy and kill people, I’m happy if they keep targeting other Muslims and not me. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/594 "2016-01-06T17:25:50Z")
I read a lot about people murdering other people. If they’re going to be crazy and kill people, I’m happy if they keep targeting other people and not…waaaaaait a minute… ---
**Author:** ![townhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@townhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/townhill)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/595 "2016-01-06T21:38:42Z")
Not sure about about other Americans, but sometimes I think that I’m losing it with Idaho. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/596 "2016-01-06T23:56:49Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Splendid stuff. So if you get to stipulate a specific date range, the numbers support your prejudice. Who’d have thought it! > > Now, what are your thoughts on classifying the people we’ve bombed in Iraq et al as terrorist deaths? Just the civilian ones, obviously. > > For some reason I’m guessing you’re going to claim that when we call it war, that’s fine and good, but when they call it war, well gosh darn it that’s terrorism. I have the same right to pick a starting date as anyone else. Any starting date you pick is arbitrary. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/597 "2016-01-07T00:40:57Z")
Ok, sure, arbitrary. What makes one date a “cheat” and not another? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/598 "2016-01-07T06:16:01Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I have the same right to pick a starting date as anyone else. Any starting date you pick is arbitrary. Except a) I didn’t pick that date in the link in question, did I, and b) you’re still remarkably shy on the topic of why it’s only terrorism when it happens in the US, on terms we define. Isn’t it all so frightfully convenient when we get to set the dates and definitions of how we judge the other side! ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/599 "2016-01-07T13:36:11Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Except a) I didn’t pick that date in the link in question, did I, and b) you’re still remarkably shy on the topic of why it’s only terrorism when it happens in the US, on terms we define. > > Isn’t it all so frightfully convenient when we get to set the dates and definitions of how we judge the other side! You chose the Seventies as a starting point, which “conveniently” allowed you to pretend only 2.5% of terrorist attacks were committed by Muslims. Why can’t I play your game? ---
**Author:** ![lalaith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@lalaith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalaith)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/600 "2016-01-07T15:37:14Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That’s just not true. Christianity and Islam and Hunduism etc are distinct. Not identical. Furthermore Christianity has been moderated and reformed at great costs historically. Islam is not there,yet, nor is it guaranteed to ever get there. Christianity is the subject of satire, lampooning, and vulgar treatment. I dare you to put a Mohammed or a Koran in urine and display it as great “art.” The motives for shielding Islam of a much needed critique and drastic reformation are obvious and sadly, for the left, ultimately counterproductive. > [@lalaith](#): > > I put a drawing of Muhammad on the [front page my blog](http://maggieameanderings.com). > > And the same image is on my [Archive page](http://maggieameanderings.com/Archive.htm). > > I just did a piece called [“15 Reasons Why ISIS Is a Bunch of Total Losers”](http://maggieameanderings.com/2015-Dec-11.htm) > > I spent the evening working on a piece I’m posting for the anniversary of the Charlie Hebdo attack. It includes a cartoon of Allah and Muhammad. The piece isn’t up yet, but I put the cartoon up so I could include the URL in the piece. You can see the cartoon [here](http://maggieameanderings.com/images/2016/Allah_w_light.png). Today is the annivesary of the Charlie Hebdo attack. As indicated, I put a piece on my website [My Cartoon of Allah and Muhammad - Religious Freedom and Its Limits](http://maggieameanderings.com/2016-Jan-7.htm) that has a cartoon with Allah and Muhammad. It’s at the end of the piece. You’d have to click on the Show/Hide button. It’s on Google. That website has my name on it and where I live. So it’s not anything I did anonymously. But I will be removing the drawing of Muhammad from my front page as I was only keeping it there until the anniversary. However, this cartoon and the drawing of Muhammad on my [Archive page](http://maggieameanderings.com/Archive.htm) will stay. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553.md?page=31)