# Are Americans losing it with Muslims? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2015, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553 "2015-12-28T10:25:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/61 "2015-12-28T16:03:56Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > The husband was dressed fairly normal but the wife had the full length black outfit and had her head covered and her face partially covered. They got more than a few stares and they was many an angry look. A couple of years ago I was in the checkout line at the supermarket and there was a woman ahead of me wearing a head scarf. A man nearby started ranting loudly about Muslims – loud enough for the woman to hear. At first I was silent, embarrassed about making a scene. But then another women in the next line started scolding him for being a bigot. And I realized that by staying silent I was complicit. So I started in on him too. We basically told him if he didn’t like living around people different from himself he should get out of America. After he finished paying he stormed off, still ranting and grumbling. What was funny is that he had been bitching about minorities ruining the country in front of an Asian checker, a black maintenance man, and a Hispanic bagger. After he was gone they thanked us. “We all hate that guy, but we can’t say anything because we work here.” \*\*Americans \*\*aren’t losing it with Muslims. \*\*Bigots \*\*are losing it with Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/62 "2015-12-28T16:11:04Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > The other day while Christmas shopping at WalMart a Muslim couple was there. The husband was dressed fairly normal but the wife had the full length black outfit and had her head covered and her face partially covered. They got more than a few stares and they was many an angry look. > > Americans have been told to be tolerant but I think our tolerance is coming to an end. Trump may have been a little extreme but he isnt far off either. > > What do you all think? Oh yeah, Americans are tolerant, unless you’re the wrong color, sexual orientation, gender identity, or religion. Nothing new here. > [@wolfpup](#): > > So, no, it didn’t change the other poster’s answer and it wouldn’t change mine, either. Although realistically, if I saw the kind of trailer trash you’re describing, it would remind me why I never go to Walmart if I can possibly avoid it. 😃 Using dehumanizing slurs undercuts your anti-dehumanizing-bigotry point, there. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/63 "2015-12-28T16:17:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > A raised eyebrow, perhaps. Maybe things are different in Virginia but in Florida I see people making unfortunate fashion choices all the time. Especially at Wal-Mart. True that! 😃 To the original question, a person wearing traditional dress may _say something about_ that person. (We can debate exactly what, and how much it may say. But we’d do so privately.) This is different from wearing a political slogan that _actually says something controversial_. We don’t normally think it polite to publicly take notice of things people do or display that _say things about them_, like the style of car they drive or the ostentatiousness of their accessories. But people who make political statements and engage in sloganeering actually _invite notice and/or even interaction_. So yes, I might treat the two cases differently. To do so would demonstrate neither hypocrisy nor cognitive dissonance. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/64 "2015-12-28T16:18:58Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > After he finished paying he stormed off, still ranting and grumbling. What was funny is that he had been bitching about minorities ruining the country in front of an Asian checker, a black maintenance man, and a Hispanic bagger. After he was gone they thanked us. “We all hate that guy, but we can’t say anything because we work here.” > > \*\*Americans \*\*aren’t losing it with Muslims. \*\*Bigots \*\*are losing it with Muslims. For some reason my amused thought was, “I wonder who this guy going to support for Prez?”. Let’s see, certainly not the bleeding-heart liberal who proposes admitting 65,000 Syrian refugees, or anyone in her party. Certainly not the black guy, or either of the Cubans. So who that’s currently prominent in the polls is going to appeal to this racist jerk? It’s hard to know! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/65 "2015-12-28T16:23:30Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > Let’s just cut to the chase. Is there _any_ garment a person could wear which might cause you to judge them negatively? Any at all? A Republican Party pin, if a pin counts as clothing. Might just be flair. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/66 "2015-12-28T16:29:34Z")
Does a bizarre comb-over that looks like a yellow marmoset just died on top of your head count as “clothing”? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/67 "2015-12-28T16:40:27Z")
Just read this. ISIS leader calls for jihad, Muslims around the world mock him. [http://www.unilad.co.uk/funny/isis-leader-releases-call-to-arms-message-but-muslims-troll-him-on-twitter-instead/](http://www.unilad.co.uk/funny/isis-leader-releases-call-to-arms-message-but-muslims-troll-him-on-twitter-instead/) ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/68 "2015-12-28T16:47:06Z")
For me the most frustrating part of the OP is the false dichotomy implied by the title. Americans are losing it with Muslims? The Muslims encountered in the OP were almost certainly Americans. Many Muslims are Americans. It’s false and misleading to imply “Americans” and “Muslims” are equivalent types of groups, or that they’re necessarily opposed. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/69 "2015-12-28T16:49:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have the impression that plenty of posters on this board would feel perfectly sanguine about directing opprobrious glares at the wearer of the T-shirt I described, and at the same time perfectly willing to inveigh against those who glare at the woman described in the OP. I think you overestimate how invested we are in other people’s sartorial choices. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/70 "2015-12-28T16:56:44Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Your impression is nothing more than a reflection of your own misguided morality. We’ve have outright said we wouldn’t care, but you can’t fathom that might actually be the case. You are a sad, sad being, for all your words, when you tip your hand in this fashion. To address the points you have made seriatim[sup]\*[/sup]: [ul] [li]My impression arises from the vitriol heaped on supporters of same-sex marriage bans here on the SDMB – indeed, in this very thread, the hypothetical T-shirt wearer is derided as being “trash.” It does not arise from any aspect of my own morality, guided or mis-.[/li][li]No one said they didn’t care prior to my asking the question[/li][li]I have not questioned or rejected anyone’s answer to the question as being less than fully truthful[/li][li]I cannot possibly imagine what “hand” I have tipped, and what it has revealed[/li][/ul] - I considered rebutting your allegations in decreasing order of their incoherence, but realized that the all essentially were vying for first place. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/71 "2015-12-28T16:59:14Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I think you overestimate how invested we are in other people’s sartorial choices. That may well be the case–it’s why I asked the question. See, the thing is that I’m almost certain I remember reading harsh judgments directed at T-shirt wearers with similar messages here, but I can’t recall the specifics. It was that faint pseudo-memory that prompted my question. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/72 "2015-12-28T16:59:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > A raised eyebrow, perhaps. Maybe things are different in Virginia but in Florida I see people making unfortunate fashion choices all the time. Especially at Wal-Mart. **Bricker** ’s example was more than a fashion choice, but an explicit political statement that openly opposes the equal rights of some Americans who see it. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/73 "2015-12-28T16:59:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But it’s an impression. I asked my question to confirm, or dispel, my impression. All right. And I’m sure you’re right, just as there are some who glare, etc. the other way round. Which proves nothing except that people can be jerks. We knew that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/74 "2015-12-28T17:00:29Z")
So what about this particular case? Should she have been subjected to angry glares or not? (edit: question posed to Bricker) ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/75 "2015-12-28T17:12:10Z")
A minor point perhaps, but in the interest of technical correctness… > [@Bricker](#): > > shroud > [@Latro](#): > > burqa The woman described in the OP was almost certainly wearing niqab, which is neither a shroud nor a burqa. (It would be correct to call it a “veil,” if you liked.) ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/76 "2015-12-28T17:13:45Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > What’s tolerant about tolerating a garment which erases the identities of women? Because it’s her choice. Just like we tolerate idiots who walk around in black neighborhoods, snickering behind their “stars and bars” caps. Or a lot of posturing online. Or anything else that’s not frigging illegal. Is this even a real question? > [@Tithonus](#): > > Let’s just cut to the chase. Is there _any_ garment a person could wear which might cause you to judge them negatively? Any at all? The most I do at other people’s fashion choices is an internal eye roll and the thought that they’re trying too hard. Mostly, I feel they’re just giving me advance warning on whether to engage or not. I’ve never seen anything that I thought should be censored or, certainly, acted on like, “Oh noes! They may be concealing a bomb!!” Or handgun / whatever. I can’t live in that much fear. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/77 "2015-12-28T17:15:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That may well be the case–it’s why I asked the question. > > See, the thing is that I’m almost certain I remember reading harsh judgments directed at T-shirt wearers with similar messages here, but I can’t recall the specifics. It was that faint pseudo-memory that prompted my question. Well, and I think this is related to what elbows feels you’ve tipped your hand about is that considering a woman in a homophobic t-shirt as being analogous to a woman in a burqa is disconcerting to some of us as it implies you feel that either the burqa is roughly as incendiary as the t-shirt or the t-shirt is as unremarkable as the burqa. A woman in a burqa is wearing her religion on her sleeve as it were, but that’s hardly unusual and not particularly noteworthy nor does it necessarily provide insight into dogma as I assume progressive/liberal muslim women may choose to wear burqas as well. Someone in a shirt saying "“Marriage = One Man + One Woman. Period.” is already spoiling for a fight, is pre-emptively declaring disrespect for my person and attempting to impose restrictions on general society that have no affect on her. So, yes, I see them differently but I do not think that reveals a hypocrisy on my part. You may feel differently though I don’t particularly care if you do. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/78 "2015-12-28T17:17:14Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > **Bricker** ’s example was more than a fashion choice, but an explicit political statement that openly opposes the equal rights of some Americans who see it. **Bricker** seems to be under the impression that he has created a brilliant analogy wherein someone flaunting an offensive political proclamation in my face that challenges the fundamental tenets of equality and basic civil rights is exactly equivalent to someone wearing a garment from a different country or culture and minding his or her own business. This impression of equivalency is not correct. > [@Bricker](#): > > See, the thing is that I’m almost certain I remember reading harsh judgments directed at T-shirt wearers with similar messages here, but I can’t recall the specifics. It was that faint pseudo-memory that prompted my question. And you’ll continue to read them. If you can’t find any I’ll be happy to provide some for you – I more or less already did, above. It’s not complicated. Some of us advocate a just and peaceful society in which people who don’t harm others are left alone to enjoy their freedoms and civil rights, whether they are gays getting married or Muslims wearing clothing that may be strange to some westerners. It’s those who belligerently meddle in other people’s business or exercise bigotry and prejudice against anyone who is not like themselves that I have a problem with. The logic here isn’t all that hard to grasp. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/79 "2015-12-28T17:17:46Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Just read this. ISIS leader calls for jihad, Muslims around the world mock him. > [http://www.unilad.co.uk/funny/isis-leader-releases-call-to-arms-message-but-muslims-troll-him-on-twitter-instead/](http://www.unilad.co.uk/funny/isis-leader-releases-call-to-arms-message-but-muslims-troll-him-on-twitter-instead/) Quite funny. But of these people who wrote these comments, how many dress up the wife in a burqa you think? Would people who dress in a burqa or wear that beard and robes, write comments like that? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/80 "2015-12-28T17:20:33Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > So what about this particular case? Should she have been subjected to angry glares or not? > (edit: question posed to Bricker) Of course not, in my view: she’s done nothing to warrant them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553.md?page=5)