# Are Americans losing it with Muslims? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2015, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553 "2015-12-28T10:25:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/121 "2015-12-28T20:25:36Z")
What is strange to me is the leap from the description of " _stares and they was many an angry look."_ to implied threats of violence. And are we just accepting the description of “angry look”? What does that even mean? There’s basically no clarification from the OP at all. I see something uncommon, I may stare. It’s not necessarily polite, but things out of the ordinary attract attention. Can’t it just be that which is benign? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/122 "2015-12-28T20:33:19Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Why do you shoot at paper targets? Well, they sass me and I get mad at them. No, actually, they don’t. I do it because it’s a physical skill: handling a precision machine to deliver a .38 inch piece of metal to a small target area 25 yards away. I enjoy the feeling of executing that task successfully. Other people, I imagine, get similar joy on using a bow to shoot arrows into a target, but my skill there is not remarkable. Still others use sticks of various lengths to hit a small ball in incremental steps from the tee to the green to the hole. I used to do that frequently, but even at my best, I was mediocre. Some folks pay for 20 minutes in the batting cage. I like the shooting range, because I’m good at it and enjoy the process. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/123 "2015-12-28T20:45:30Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > I’m not from the US. I’m from a traditionally very tolerant country, where we had a critic of of Islam brutally murdered in the street. > Like a lot of other countries we have been sticking our heads in the sand ever since and pretend the problem doesn’t exist. That’s the same country where brave people hid Ann Frank & other Jews from the Nazis. Until other countrymen reported the hiding place to the authorities. Which group are you descended from? (Concerning the OP, I’ve never noted **Urbanredneck** speaking out against any bigotry. He probably doesn’t even know any real rednecks. They can be quite surprising!) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/124 "2015-12-28T20:54:41Z")
It is natural to do a double-take when someone wears garb in public that is unusual. To my mind, the civilized thing to do is to attempt to repress that reaction and as it were ‘get over it’ … unless it is clear that the person wearing the unusual garb is doing so precisely to attract attention. I do not except the analogy between wearing traditional Muslim garb and wearing deliberately provocative slogans. The latter are an attempt to attract attention. Someone wearing traditional garb is attempting to assert their identity it is true, but generally is doing so for their own reasons - like a Sikh wearing a turban or an Orthodox Jew wearing a kippah. They are not wearing them for the express purpose of riling others. Therefore, I think that the appropriate response to Muslim traditional garb is to understand that gawking or doing a double-take may be natural (assuming one is unused to seeing such outfits), but it is not polite under the circumstances. I am reminded of my five-year-old son’s reaction to first seeing a woman wearing a black Islamic veil: he pointed at the woman and shouted: “Daddy! Look! That lady’s a Ninja!”. 😃 It’s funny (if embarrassing for the parent) coming from a young child … part of becoming an adult is to learn subtle differences and appropriate reactions to how people present themselves in public. An Islamic lady wearing traditional garb is not, in fact, a ninja, and pointing, staring (let alone glaring) are not appropriate: doing so in a noticeable manner may get one consigned to the ‘ignorant yokel’ category, at best. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/125 "2015-12-28T21:02:41Z")
A guy wearing a tshirt that says, “Marriage = 1 man + 1 woman” is making an expressly homophobic statement, and I have no problem judging him on that basis. A woman wearing a niqab is saying, “I’m a Muslim,” and nothing else. I don’t judge people just for belonging to a religion. As an aside, I used to live near a family where the wife wore a full veil and caftan - and red fuck me stiletto heels underneath. > [@Malthus](#): > > An Islamic lady wearing traditional garb is not, in fact, a ninja… That’s just what the ninjas want you to think. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/126 "2015-12-28T21:04:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, they sass me and I get mad at them. > > No, actually, they don’t. I do it because it’s a physical skill: handling a precision machine to deliver a .38 inch piece of metal to a small target area 25 yards away. I enjoy the feeling of executing that task successfully. Why not shoot paintball guns? I’m sure one could buy a precision paintball gun that would require a similar amount of skill to deliver a paintball to a target 25 yards away that would also release the relevant endorphins to make succeeding at the task pleasant. I assume there’d be some ballistics difference from shooting a round paintball vs a pointed piece of metal and perhaps the difference is great enough to remove paintball from serious consideration. Regardless, I am skeptical that there is a significant number of people who are interested in shooting purely for the technical sport of it and that if there were, a new type of shooting that didn’t use actual bullets would develop much as how many arrows used in archery have blunted tips. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/127 "2015-12-28T21:05:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That’s just what the ninjas want you to think. In spite of what the movies say, you can’t _really_ do the ninja moves wearing fuck me stiletto heels … 😉 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/128 "2015-12-28T21:06:04Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Why not shoot paintball guns? I’m sure one could buy a precision paintball gun that would require a similar amount of skill to deliver a paintball to a target 25 yards away that would also release the relevant endorphins to make succeeding at the task pleasant. I assume there’d be some ballistics difference from shooting a round paintball vs a pointed piece of metal and perhaps the difference is great enough to remove paintball from serious consideration. > > Regardless, I am skeptical that there is a significant number of people who are interested in shooting purely for the technical sport of it and that if there were, a new type of shooting that didn’t use actual bullets would develop much as how many arrows used in archery have blunted tips. Shooting targets with real guns is fun. Maybe it’s fun for the technical skill and marksmanship, or for the feeling of power, or to fantasize about killing the bad guys. This isn’t necessarily a good thing, but it’s true, at least in my experience (Navy and civilian target shooting). ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/129 "2015-12-28T21:18:11Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > I agree. Anyone who doesn’t meet my personal view of being “hot” should not be allowed in public or at least completely cover themselves so as not to offend mine delicate eyes. That’s right, because we’re talking about how someone’s dress affects them personally. Women wearing full body coverings don’t affect the OP, there’s no “losing it” that Americans are doing except being racist. So if he’s judging others for wearing hijabs, then I’m going to judge some ugly people for wearing shitty clothes in public ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/130 "2015-12-28T21:49:58Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > A woman in a burqa is wearing her religion on her sleeve as it were, but that’s hardly unusual and not particularly noteworthy nor does it necessarily provide insight into dogma as I assume progressive/liberal muslim women may choose to wear burqas as well. Sometimes black guys put Confederate flags on their four wheel drive trucks, that doesn’t change the fact that the flag is a symbol of oppression and supremacy. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/131 "2015-12-28T21:50:29Z")
> [@ElderSign](#): > > Gasp…Progressive Juan Williams said this BEFORE Trump ran for office: > > “…when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous.” Is this a whoosh? In what universe is Juan Williams, 19-year Fox News veteran, a progressive? > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Why not shoot paintball guns? I’m sure one could buy a precision paintball gun that would require a similar amount of skill to deliver a paintball to a target 25 yards away that would also release the relevant endorphins to make succeeding at the task pleasant. I assume there’d be some ballistics difference from shooting a round paintball vs a pointed piece of metal and perhaps the difference is great enough to remove paintball from serious consideration. > > Regardless, I am skeptical that there is a significant number of people who are interested in shooting purely for the technical sport of it and that if there were, a new type of shooting that didn’t use actual bullets would develop much as how many arrows used in archery have blunted tips. The .22-caliber firearms used in most serious target shooting - pieces like [this one](https://www.google.com/search?q=olympic+target+rifle&sa=X&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&site=webhp&tbm=isch&imgil=ZVT_la0Lxc_zBM%253A%253B3xg4adCovDaK7M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.army.mil%25252Farticle%25252F84968%25252FArmy_wife_Gray_wins_Olympic_gold_in_3_positions_rifle%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=ZVT_la0Lxc_zBM%253A%252C3xg4adCovDaK7M%252C_&dpr=1&usg= __i7xZLjUd2ivqFlXbZkk8pJ13VaQ%3D&ved=0ahUKEwj43YjQxP_JAhVB4yYKHTvwC3cQyjcIJQ&ei=kq6BVvjMG8HGmwG74K-4Bw#imgrc=ZVT_la0Lxc_zBM%3A&usg=__ i7xZLjUd2ivqFlXbZkk8pJ13VaQ%3D) and [this one](https://www.google.com/search?q=olympic+target+pistol&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&site=webhp&tbm=isch&imgil=HaGDBQZNH-qGAM%253A%253ByvFsAXDcjkhZZM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.travel-golf.org%25252Fbest_22_caliber_target_pistols.htm&source=iu&pf=m&fir=HaGDBQZNH-qGAM%253A%252CyvFsAXDcjkhZZM%252C_&usg= __DR0Tm0PKhsvOLVxP-T4FhG5lF6E%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjAlPeHxf_JAhWDQCYKHaGvCwQQyjcIJQ&ei=B6-BVoD1JIOBmQGh364g#imgrc=HaGDBQZNH-qGAM%3A&usg=__ DR0Tm0PKhsvOLVxP-T4FhG5lF6E%3D) - are about as close to “not actual bullets” as you can get without going to gelatin capsules. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/132 "2015-12-28T21:58:06Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you feel the same way if the person wants to peacefully open-carry a handgun holstered on their hip while minding their own business? Live and let live? Civil rights for all? Or is that considered “flaunting an offensive political proclamation in [your] face”? Would you feel justified in trying to ban this peaceful expression, or at least state angrily at the person doing it? How do you feel if the guy carrying the gun is black? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/133 "2015-12-28T21:59:59Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Is this a whoosh? In what universe is Juan Williams, 19-year Fox News veteran, a progressive? Kusinich is a FoxNews guy, too. Not mutually exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/134 "2015-12-28T22:04:09Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Kusinich is a FoxNews guy, too. Not mutually exclusive. I’ve read _Enough_. Juan Williams is no progressive. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/135 "2015-12-28T22:13:44Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > That’s the same country where brave people hid Ann Frank & other Jews from the Nazis. Until other countrymen reported the hiding place to the authorities. > > Which group are you descended from? Actually, my family did hide a jewish girl. Today’s danger is not fascism but Islamism. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/136 "2015-12-28T22:29:14Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Sometimes black guys put Confederate flags on their four wheel drive trucks, that doesn’t change the fact that the flag is a symbol of oppression and supremacy. Also doesn’t change the fact that it’s none of my business. Nor is the outward trappings of her religion. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/137 "2015-12-28T22:30:42Z")
To rehash the old phrase: “When America gets Islamism they’ll call it anti-Islamism.” ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/138 "2015-12-28T22:33:47Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Also doesn’t change the fact that it’s none of my business. Nor is the outward trappings of her religion. Some people consider it their moral duty to speak out against the display of symbols of oppression and supremacy. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/139 "2015-12-28T22:35:26Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > How do you feel if the guy carrying the gun is black? I support their lawful right to do so. I was involved in a discussion about a recent arrest of open-carriers in San Antonio on another forum. The OCers were young black men. They broke no laws and should not have been arrested. I was one of many who criticized the police for those wrongful arrests. ---
**Author:** ![zoogirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b9bd4f/32.png) [@zoogirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoogirl)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/140 "2015-12-28T22:38:16Z")
Up here in the “Not All That Frozen North” its still cold enough that I’m running around in an ankle length grey coat and a hooded sweater. I probably look pretty Muslim from the back. The clothing is my choice. I’ve been to our local nude beach a couple of times and chose to remain clothed. Again, my choice. Nobody tries to force me to take off anything I don’t want to. If I was raised in a culture that viewed taking off a headscarf about the same as I view going topless, I’d be pretty pissed if someone tried to force me to remove it. Remember folks, everyone has a different comfort level. I think that after a few years of living under western freedom women will realize that the choice is theirs. Some will continue to wear the traditional covering, some will say no, with schools and other support to back them up if they need it. Here in Surrey BC Canada, we have a fair number of Muslims but far more Sikhs. Something like two thirds of the area is from India. Do I even notice turbans anymore? Heck no. The RCMP even have them as part of the official uniform. One of my co workers wears one. No big deal. In a decade or so, nobody will notice Muslims anymore either. (Oh, and if it matters, I’m white, middle aged, female and my family has been in Canada for over a hundred years on my dad’s side and two hundred on Mom’s.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553.md?page=8)