# Are Americans losing it with Muslims? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2015, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553 "2015-12-28T10:25:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 632
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553/632 "2017-02-07T05:00:28Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But your “statement” is being used as cover for discriminating against one religion in particular, even in situations where practitioners of that religion happen to be **less** bigoted and oppressive than practitioners of the religions you’re not bothering to preach against. First, show me the preaching. Stating simple facts of fundamental religious beliefs that run contrary to fundamental human rights is hardly preaching, particularly when my statement was specifically contextualized by mentioning other religions as also being culpable. If you think that I preach against Muslims, I suggest you come up with some examples in this thread or elsewhere where you believe that I have preached against Muslims. Let’s start with this anti-Muslim discriminatory screed: > [@Protests in Canada shut down US Consulate in Toronto and maybe Embassy in Ottawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/30): > > Many Canadians are Muslim, or have relatives, friends and co-workers who are Muslim. When they are harmed, it harms us, so when Trump and the brown-shirts act against innocent Muslims, it upsets us and we want to address the problem, even if individually none of us has any significant influence. > > In the matter at hand, a fascist is living in the White House. After many months of denigrating Muslims, one of his first acts as President was to strike a hateful and needless blow to innocent Muslims by way of a travel ban, which further promoted hatred of them by vilifying them. The day after Trump’s Muslim ban, a French-Canadian nationalist murdered six Muslims at prayer, and severely injured many more, which Trump used as excuse for justifying his Muslim travel ban, further promoting hatred against perfectly innocent Muslims, and empowering acts of hatred against them, as tragically evinced by a Quebecois troll turned terrorist. Trump is a stochastic terrorist with blood on his tiny hands and his brown-shirt sleeves. We are not willing to stand by blythely, despite not having much influence. I trust that you are familiar with Niemoller’s “[First they came for . . .](https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392)” poem that is memorialized in stone in the United States Holocaust Museum: > > > [@](#): > > > > First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— > > Because I was not a Socialist. > > > > Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— > > Because I was not a Trade Unionist. > > > > Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— > > Because I was not a Jew. > > > > Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. > > We Canadians, through our individual efforts, our Prime Minister’s efforts and government’s efforts, are speaking out. As current internet meme states" “[del]First they came for the Muslims[/del] _ **Not this time, Motherfucker!** _” > > . . . . > > On top of our regular compliment of immigrants and refugees, we took in an additional 25,000 Syrian refugees last year – not temporarily, but to become permanent residents and eventually citizens if that is what they chose. By comparison, the USA, which has ten times the population of Canada, only took in 10,000 Syrian refugees. I encourage you to do the math, for on a per capita basis, we took in 96% of the combined total of Syrian refugees taken in by Canada and the USA in 2016. On a per capita basis, the USA only took in 4% of the combined total, resulting in a per capita ration of 24:1. And that was in 2016, under the Muslim friendly (and in Trump’s opinion, a Muslim not born in the USA) Obama. [our Prime Minister is welcoming Muslims](https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2017/jan/30/justin-trudeau-muslims-quebec-mosque-attack-video). This is [Canada’s Prime Minister’s and Ontario’s Premier’s example.](https://youtu.be/LQeaimHDcEU)[We care](https://youtu.be/e48U2pmc8Do), and the first of equals, [our Prime Minister cares](https://youtu.be/NvTKtqODneQ). Second, you state that my statement is being used as cover for discriminating against one religion in particular. Please note that facts are facts and this is Great Debates, in which arguments are supposed to be built upon that are relevant to the discussion. I call out discrimination when I come across it. Remember that two wrongs do not make a right. A valid question was made, and I correctly answered it. That it goes hard against Islam is up to Islam to deal with, rather than for me to conceal. Don’t go sweeping the facts under the carpet. If you think that a debate should ignore facts that are both relevant and significant, then you and I disagree on what a debate should be and on how arguments should be constructed. tomndebb has put forward a relevant fact: “that “prohibition” is already being routinely ignored in immigrant communities.” (And yes, I very aware of and glad to see the trend --btw “challenges” not “changes”.) Let’s dig deeper. Is the prohibition ignored by Imams who preside at such marriage ceremonies, or is it that over time families and communities are growing more tolerant of women who have civil marriages to non-Muslim men? I think you’ll find that it is the latter rather than the former. I look forward to the day when there will be no prohibition and no social stigma associated with marriage outside of one’s religion, but with the religions of The Book, the dogma runs deep. (BTW, if anyone knows a legitimate Sunni Imam (but not a Shia Nizari Ismaili Imam for that runs into something similar to the “Mormons are not Christians” problem) in Canada or the USA who will advise a Sunni woman that marriage to an atheist man is not haram, and who will preside at the marriage ceremony (but not an Imam who is simply willing to turn a blind eye while the man falsely pretends to be a Muslim), please IM me with the Imam’s name and contact info.) Third, preaching against non-islamic religions would only lead this thread off topic, so don’t complain about my not going into detail about the many great failings of Christianity. I’d be glad to, for I’m an atheist who is greatly troubled by the political impact of the religious right here at home in the Conservative leadership race, and in the USA which has significantly contributed to the most militarily powerful and economically powerful country in the world in the little hands of a narcissistic fascist – but that is not the topic of this thread. If you want, by all means go dig about the SDMB for my posts that are critical of Christianity (I expect that there are quite a few anti-fundie posts) and link them or copy excerpts of them here, despite them not being relevant to this debate. --- _[View the full topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-losing-it-with-muslims/741553)._