# Are Americans really unaware the letter "Z" is pronounced "Zed" in the UK/Australia/NZ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 3, 2013, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399 "2013-05-03T09:33:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399/141 "2013-05-05T03:08:13Z")
> [@Jervoise](#): > > That’s cute. However the United States is not an exceptionally culturally-diverse place relative to many other Western countries. > > Proportion of resident population who were born in foreign countries: > > - Australia 25.4% > - Canada 20.2% > - New Zealand 22.3% > - Ireland 16.7% > - United States 13.7% > - United Kingdom 10.8% > > Source: OECD (2008 data). Of course, the diversity, as measured in this sense, varies tremendously in different parts of the U.S. California is about 27% foreign born. Los Angeles is about 40% foreign born. If you compare the situation in L.A. with that in Memphis (only 5% foreign born), you would get two different pictures of the diversity of the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399/142 "2013-05-05T03:37:57Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Of course, the diversity, as measured in this sense, varies tremendously in different parts of the U.S. California is about 27% foreign born. Los Angeles is about 40% foreign born. If you compare the situation in L.A. with that in Memphis (only 5% foreign born), you would get two different pictures of the diversity of the U.S. As you would anywhere else. California is about 27% foreign born, New South Wales is about 25%. Los Angeles is about 40% foreign born. Sydney is also home to about 40% foreign born residents. The US is completely unexceptional at its high points. The difference is that the absolute low point in Australia (Tasmania at 10%) is equivalent to the US _mean_. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399/143 "2013-05-05T03:45:51Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Uh huh. > > So [England](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_and_Caicos_Islands), [France](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivity_of_Saint_Martin) and [Holland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saba) are island nations smaller than most large US cities. > > Talk about parochialism.:rolleyes: Talk about it indeed. Saba and Saint Martin are both further than a thousand km from the the lower 48. Turks and Caicos squeaks in though: only 971 km from Miami. I’m looking at a map trying to get to 50 nations or territory thereof. I got Canada, Mexico, the Bahamas, Cuba, Jamaica, Haiti. Turks and Caicos. What am I missing? Also, there’s more to diversity than foreign or native born. The 88% or so of Americans native-born are children and grandchildren of immigrants, as well as the children of the (diverse) nations that were already here. Gotta mean something. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399/144 "2013-05-05T04:43:01Z")
Will you guys get off the kilometers bandwagon? Yes, I know it’s the international standard. But the quote being refuted dealt with parts of America being over 1,000 **miles** from another nation. Most of the West, 1,000 miles south of Canada is farther south than 1,000 miles north of Mexico. Most of the Midwest, Middle Atlabtuc, and Northeast is within 1,000 miles of Detroit (and hence of Windsor). And what us keft us within 1,000 miles of Cuba or the Bahamas. Alaska, probably all the state is within a thousand miles of Russia or Canada. There is one part of the US not within 1,000 miles of a foreign nation… It’s Hawaii. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399/145 "2013-05-05T05:03:37Z")
Upping the distance to a thousand miles and adding Alaska still isn’t enough to make **Blake’s** statement true or meaningful. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399/146 "2013-05-05T05:12:07Z")
> [@sugaree](#): > > Talk about it indeed. Saba and Saint Martin are both further than a thousand km from the the lower 48. Turks and Caicos squeaks in though: only 971 km from Miami. > > I’m looking at a map trying to get to 50 nations or territory thereof. I got Canada, Mexico, the Bahamas, Cuba, Jamaica, Haiti. Turks and Caicos. What am I missing? > > Also, there’s more to diversity than foreign or native born. The 88% or so of Americans native-born are children and grandchildren of immigrants, as well as the children of the (diverse) nations that were already here. Gotta mean something. As is the population of other young countries, what’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399/147 "2013-05-05T05:42:02Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > As is the population of other young countries, what’s your point? Diversity can’t be measured only by the percentage of foreign-born residents. By that measure, Ireland’s more diverse than the U.S., and that idea’s hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399/148 "2013-05-05T06:03:00Z")
> [@sugaree](#): > > Diversity can’t be measured only by the percentage of foreign-born residents. By that measure, Ireland’s more diverse than the U.S., and that idea’s hilarious. Yes but how does what you are saying differentiate the US from other young countries with a recent history of immigration? Do you think that Australia is not made up of the children and grandchildren of immigrants? ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399/149 "2013-05-05T08:10:25Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > **Moderator Note** > > **stui magpie** , this is a reminder that it is against the rules to alter text within the quote tags while leaving the original attribution. No warning issued, but don’t do this again. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator OK, sorry about that. I hadn’t read the rules and didn’t realise. My fault, thanks for the heads up. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399/150 "2013-05-05T10:36:52Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > "a b c d e f g; h i j k, lmnop; q r s, t u v, w x, y and zed…(needle scratching across a record sound effect…) So what? - the song is American in origin - it’s hardly surprising that it doesn’t work in other dialects. Dr Seuss made a better job of it in _The Cat In The Hat Comes Back_ - it can be read as Little Cat Zee or Little Cat Zed - and it works either way. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399/151 "2013-05-05T11:45:20Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Yes but how does what you are saying differentiate the US from other young countries with a recent history of immigration? Do you think that Australia is not made up of the children and grandchildren of immigrants? No, and I puzzled that you think I said that. I will, however, point out two things: neither the UK nor Ireland are “new” countries, and “new” countries themselves have wildly varied rates of diversity. For example, if you look at the ethnic breakdown of Australia and the US, a far greater percentage of Australians are of English extraction than any percentage of Americans are of any single background. ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399/152 "2013-05-05T12:23:44Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I’m not sure that that is a good measure of cultural diversity. Surely it has to be weighted for population size of the countries in question? 300+ million people is diverse, regardless of the coordinates of their place of birth. > > It seems to me that is the same kind of criticism as the one about Americans not having passports, which fails to take into account the fact that America is big, and a long way away from anywhere else except Canada and Mexico. It’s not like Liechtenstein, where you travel to another country every time you go shopping. Your first paragraph is illogical. There’s nothing about a large population that by sole dint of size makes it more diverse than a small population. Your second paragraph ignores Australia and Canada, similarly geographically large (and in the case of Australia much more isolated) nations that travel substantially more than the US and are home to proportionally more foreign born residents. In any event, my post was **solely** in response to an assertion that in the US: > [@](#): > > We don’t need a passport to experience cultural diversity. Not trying to get all defensive here, but you seem to equate having a passport to a level of cultural knowledge. Your average American town will have resturants influenced by dozens of cultures, as do the meals a family prepares at home. It’s wonderful that Americans are proud that their diverse nation is a melting pot of cultures, but it should also be recognised that this is hardly exceptional. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399/153 "2013-05-05T12:57:03Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Good to know, but that’s only because a very few Canadian shows show up on US cable. In an ideal world, your kids would also have the option of watching Doctor Who-esque Time Travel shows from New Zealand. Canadian shows, however, have a tendency to fly under Americans’ radar because the culture and accent is _close enough_ to avoid it looking foreign. When I was a child, the Disney Channel was playing Avonlea and it took a while to realize that this wasn’t an American show. I’m sure there are still people out there who think it was about a Maine fishing village. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399/154 "2013-05-05T14:23:25Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > First off, there is still more diversity in Europe, even by this measure. > > Secondly, the measure makes no sense. You are saying that China is the most diverse country on Earth, simply because it is home to a lot of Chinese. That’s a total non-sequitur. I’m not saying that. I said that it should be weighted, i.e. adjusted, according to population size. Take **Jervoise** ’s proposed measure, number of people born outside the country. Consider two populations, one an island of a couple of hundred people that has hardly any foreign-born inhabitants. The other, a country like China, with the same proportion of immigrants. By that measure they have the same degree of cultural diversity, which is absurd. China has more cultural diversity than the imaginary island simply because it has more people. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399/155 "2013-05-05T14:25:33Z")
This looks like a good place to ask: Do Brits also aspirate the letter H when they pronounce it? I’d never heard this before moving to Thailand, but I’ve met quite a few grade school students here who say “haitch” when reciting their ABCs. Since there are quite a few British teachers of English grammar here, I assumed that’s where it’s coming from. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399/156 "2013-05-05T14:36:56Z")
They never used to. However, Australians _also_ never used to - or at any rate, it was a marker of being less well educated. But I’ve noticed that all the primary school students in our yuppy neighbourhood seem to say “haitch” these days, and I’m even picking it up myself. So I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a “haitch shift” going on elsewhere too. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399/157 "2013-05-05T14:49:37Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Yes, Americans are culturally isolated. I ask those who deny this to tell us if they even have a passport. I’ll deny it. And I’d be happy to compare Passport stamps, if you like. My last one was from Easter Island (no, not just Chile - if you go to the little post office in Hanga Roa, you can get a separate Easter Island stamp). ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399/158 "2013-05-05T15:02:53Z")
> [@Jervoise](#): > > In any event, my post was **solely** in response to an assertion that in the US: > It’s wonderful that Americans are proud that their diverse nation is a melting pot of cultures, but it should also be recognised that this is hardly exceptional. Over 20% of all immigrants in the world live in the US (more than 3 times the amount in any other country). [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_foreign-born\_population\_in\_2005](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-born_population_in_2005) ---
**Author:** ![Charley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/97f17d/32.png) [@Charley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charley)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399/159 "2013-05-05T15:07:28Z")
> [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](#): > > This looks like a good place to ask: Do Brits also aspirate the letter H when they pronounce it? I’d never heard this before moving to Thailand, but I’ve met quite a few grade school students here who say “haitch” when reciting their ABCs. Since there are quite a few British teachers of English grammar here, I assumed that’s where it’s coming from. Some do, some don’t. It’s actually one of the shibboleths referenced in the Wiki article someone cited upthread - which I found really interesting. When I was a child it was pretty much a class indicator, at least as far as my kind-of-snobby mother was concerned. She was cross if I did, as it showed lack of class. That’s a whole complex thought process, though. Aspirating is in some ways more Northern, and so by default slightly less classy, plus it’s not the ‘right’ way to say it, so shows lack of education, which in turn shows lack of class. British class nuances would fill the whole thread and more, though: suffice it to say, it’s often not seen as correct to say ‘haitch’ but it’s not uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399/160 "2013-05-05T15:19:55Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Because Americans don’t give a fuck about other countries. When I landed in AUS, my primary school/grade school/elementary school teacher didn’t know that Americans pronounced Z as Zee. And she was teaching a multi-cultural school with a high USA enrolment. But she was probably very young and very inexperienced. And my younger sister was corrected from H to Haitch by her teacher. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-really-unaware-the-letter-z-is-pronounced-zed-in-the-uk-australia-nz/657399.md?page=9)