I lived in Paris the summer I was nineteen, and could always tell the other Americans from the French because the French ironed their blue jeans.
What’s up with THAT?
Uke
They don’t have our rustic goldmining heretige, Ike. That, and they’re sissies.
Hell is Other People.
Cooper,
Yes, I do understand that I am missing any well behaved Americans when I pick out the bad ones. Part of the game, however, is that you must be able to confirm that the person you suspect is, in fact, an American. So it’s not just pointing out some ill-mannered slob and assuming they are American, you have to confirm it. In all my years of playing “Find the Americans”, I have never once been wrong when suspecting someone of being my countryman. You are right, there are well behaved Americans. It is also true that the chances are very high that the slob dropping his gum wrapper on the Metro or the lady wearing jeans and a t-shirt at the Taj Mahal are Americans.
I also take umbrage with your accusation that I am prejudiced. I am not discussing my assumptions about how I think Americans may behave abroad, I am telling you what I see every time I travel.
As for Gilligan, see above. I will also add that while I count myself among Americans, I do not count myself among the cretins I encounter abroad. How do I know I’m not giving myself too much credit? Europeans are always astounded to learn that I’m American. They ask me questions like, “Yes, but surely you haven’t always lived in America?”. I often feel like I’m a side show. “Gunter, here, can you believe this is an American?”
“I should not take bribes and Minister Bal Bahadur KC should not do so either. But if clerks take a bribe of Rs 50-60 after a hard day’s work, it is not an issue.” ----Krishna Prasad Bhattarai, Current Prime Minister of Nepal
I almost forgot…
I’ve even been mistaken for a European by Americans! I was coming home from France one time, and was the only one sitting in my row on the plane. An American woman and her son sat behind me. They were talking about being glad to be going home and making a few snide comments about the French. When the son made a comment that his mother felt was over the line, she told him, “Don’t talk so loud. There’s one of them right in front of us”.
Even if I were French, did they think no French people speak English?
Rude. Very rude.
“I should not take bribes and Minister Bal Bahadur KC should not do so either. But if clerks take a bribe of Rs 50-60 after a hard day’s work, it is not an issue.” ----Krishna Prasad Bhattarai, Current Prime Minister of Nepal
And you know this is the majority how? I think you are missing the point. The point is that your stereotypes shape the world you see, and perpetuate themselves in this way.
Having actually lived overseas (3 years in Okinawa, 3 years in Misawa (northern Honshu), and 4 in Germany), rather than just played tourist once in a while, I would have to say that the majority of Americans I knew made a real effort to be good guests, and that many things that people were so quick to point at as proof of “ugly americanism” were simply honest mistakes, rather than deliberate boorishness.
And as for bad behavior…ever been denied entrance into a club because of your race? I have, in Japan, because I was caucasian, something that was stated directly to me.
In some ways Americans are to clean. IMO, a lot of teenagers with bad acne would be a lot better off if they didn’t wash their face several times a day. When someone told me to stop washing my face if I wanted to get rid of acne, I thought he was nuts. Up till that point I thought that you had to scub those pores out to keep them from getting clogged. But as stated in an earlier post, washing REALLY dries out your skin, forcing it to produce even MORE oil. Not a good thing. I started washing my face once a day (instead of twice) and noticed an immediate improvement. Later on I cut it down to washing with water only, no soap. I still got zits, but their incidence was way, way down. Not eating greasy foods, and not washing, pretty much eliminated my youthfull zits.
Any nutritionist will tell you that eating greasy food has nothing to do with acne.
Any dermatologist will agree that dry skin is a bad thing, but would recommend washing more and using a soluble lotion if you have acne problems. The lotion will not well up behind a clogged pore, which is of course what causes the zit.
No, Cooper, YOU’RE missing the point! So there!
Hell is Other People.
A couple comments:
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Sake, considering your sig line is “Hell is Other People”, it makes me think you don’t exactly seek out others’ virtues.
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I’m not sure what’s rude about talking loudly on the street and pointing to various things…
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When I lived in NYC and attended mass at St. Patrick’s cathedral, I was disappointed at how rude some of the tourists were. They’d wander through church, taking pictures and carrying on conversations in all languages, ignoring the fact that a mass was being said. And while I didn’t expect non-catholics to genuflect, I did expect a certain deference considering it was a place of worship. So rude tourists come in all faces.
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As for Americans being too clean, there is a lovely Indian woman who works out regularly at my gym. But whenever she gets on the treadmill, there are soon empty spots on either side of her. She positively reeks! Though I’ll be the first to admit that she’s in great shape!
It’s better to err on the side of being too conservative.
True, greasy food will not give you acne by virtue of “nutrition”. It’s the grease that gets on your fingers and around your mouth ,and that can clog pores by just being ON the skin. You touch your face a lot more than you might suspect. That, is how greasy food causes zits.
i work w/ a lot of engineers, male & female, who are from india. when they first get here, they usually do smell pretty bad. it’s kinda embarrassing because you want to help them get settled & feel comfortable in this totally new life, but it’s literally hard to get close enough to talk.
after a few months, the strong smell starts to go away. the ones who have been here at least 6 months have acclimated.
i think what happens is they gradually change to an american diet. the highly-spiced indian diet seems to be the cause of the odors. i don’t think it’s not washing frequently per se (altho i believe many of them don’t use deodorant at first). it’s just the body eliminating the toxins & resins in the spices.
the indian woman on the treadmill may still be eating a majority of indian food.
& don’t give me any b.s. about this being prejudice. my nose knows & i’ve been thru this dozens of times. otoh, i don’t wish to offend anyone because of their spicy diet, indian, italian, mexican. just be aware that it is apparent to people who don’t eat the same diet.
No, I don’t figure Americans are too clean, because history has pointed out that we started living longer and having less diseases before other nations who chose to ignore our sanitary practices.
I’ve been overseas and let me tell you, some of those ‘exotic’ people in the travel posters and on those great movies stink in person! Richard Pryor was not kidding when he joked about people in Africa reeking. The French are KNOWN not to bath very often – which is probably why they make some of the best perfumes.
I’ve been in some real primitive public bathrooms overseas also, where one wanted to clean ones shoes BEFORE going on the public street. It is quite astonishing just how many foreign men drop into the local can, do their business and walk out without even glancing at the sink and soap!
In one place the local toilet was a hole in the tiled floor. I wanted to sterilize the soles of my shoes afterwards! (Sorry, that was for liquid waste only.)
You really ought to visit an Arabic desert camp! With water limited and which has to be carried, washing is not common. BOY! Aroma is rich! Not to mention that they still drink out of poorly cured animal skins in many instances which gives the water inside a taste that is not describable and not palatable! Eating with ones fingers there is interesting, considering that the cooks probably haven’t washed their hands that day and washing up afterwards is wiping your hands on cloth, sand or rags. (TIDY-WIPES are a MUST for Americans, British and Norwegians.)
You think that there are sinks in the French public ‘pissiors’? Those round, comfort stations on the street where a guy goes in and takes a leak, with his head and legs exposed for all to view? Nope.
The less developed a country is, the worse the standard of cleanliness. Stay OUT of the GANGES River in India. They consider it holy and millions not only bath in it daily, but wash their laundry in the bacteria infested waters, plus drink from it. (Let us not speak of the run-off from the cities, including cattle manure and urine, that dumps into it also.)
No, Americans are not TOO clean. Natural body oils do not enhance the skin – look at the wrinkled old people of ages ago before washing became more common than on a Saturday night. Plus, the various beauty aides of today make American women some of the most beautiful in the world for longer periods than most.
In quite a few countries you really DON’T want to go into the kitchens of local eateries and see how they fix the food and you DON’T want to go to the local butcher and buy fresh meat.
Are Americans much cleaner than other cultures?
Well, I don’t think we are any more obsessed with cleanliness than Asians, or at least Koreans. My girlfriend is Korean, and she goes to town in the shower, usually more than once a day. Additional face-washing at other times as well. Besides liking the water hotter than I can stand; she can go through a bar of soap in 3 days.
Judging from what I have learned from her culture, Koreans place a premium on attractivenes, which includes the liberal use of the razor, deodorant, and other beauty aides. This requires them to pay much attention to hygine. (In addition, her shit doesn’t even stink! What’s up with that!?).
Lisa: Don’t be fooled by the sig line - I am the kindest, nicest, most compassionate person in the world - if you don’t see that you’re a blind moron.
And you’re absolutely correct when you say that many tourists, regardless of nationality, are loud and rude. I used to live in DC and was around tourists all the time. I still say that Americans abroad are disproportionately obnoxious, but perhaps it’s just the fact that there are 300 million of us and we’re economically well off and travel frequently (although more than 80% of American travel is domestic, NOT international).
That was great, Sentinel! You’ve got to get a job writing travel brochures. Aside: What places have you actually enjoyed visiting?
Newsflash, divemaster: Your girlfriend is most likely a robot. Those Koreans are damn clever.
Hell is Other People.
Lucky, I may have misinterpreted your first post. If you meant “When I see obnoxious travellers, they usually turn out to be American”, I apologize. But it seemed more like “When I see American travellers, they usually turn out to be obnoxious”, which I would call prejudice.
Gilligan;
No need to apologise. I was unclear. But yes, what I mean is when I see obnoxious travellers, they are nearly always Americans. I think this is really unfortunate because it gives us the image of being the ugly Americans. While we may not all be, I can hardly blame our neighbors for thinking so when they see so many who fit the stereotype.
What saddens me the most about it is that the attitude seems to come from a lack of cultural education and no apparent will to learn more. I often feel like asking these people, “If you find Europe (or Asia, as the case may be) so unenjoyable then do everyone a favor and stay home.” When I hear complaints such as “all the stores close at 6pm”, I wonder why they bothered to go anywhere if all they wanted was for things to be as they are at home.
“I should not take bribes and Minister Bal Bahadur KC should not do so either. But if clerks take a bribe of Rs 50-60 after a hard day’s work, it is not an issue.” ----Krishna Prasad Bhattarai, Current Prime Minister of Nepal
I enjoyed all of them, with the exception of the Arabic countries. Those people have too much of a tendency to be too full of themselves, which I figure comes from a nation which was, not so long ago, happily chasing each other through the deserts on camels, joyously murdering each other for various reasons, being suddenly given more money and power than they had ever imagined possible.
You have to watch how you talk to them, how you treat their women, their religion, even how you place your feet! They get insulted easily and while most nations make exceptions for visitors from another country, those in power have remarkably little desire to do so in their countries. Their too easily earned money makes them arrogant and the division of that wealth is not equal.
I liked France, though they also have a tendency to be cocky. Many places speak English and cater to tourists and the land is beautiful. England, Scotland and Ireland are cool. (I love the red haired Irish beauties!) You got to be a bit careful in Northern Ireland, though, because they’ve been squabbling over religion for so long and throwing bombs that even the kids have nasty habits.
Koreans are personally clean, but their sanitary habits in other areas leave a lot to be desired. They don’t have general health laws in the food preparation areas and some farmers still dump the ol’ sewage pots from the house out onto the crops as free fertilizer. Now, the Japanese are very clean, though I’m not too keen on their group baths and they seem driven by some sort of universal need to prove how manly they are. (The men, that is.)
India is bad. No two ways about it. Glorious colors in dress, curious and wonderful arts, magnificent foods and pleasant people – mostly. They have a law requiring that Turmeric be added to all restaurant foods because the spice is a natural and massively powered ani-oxidant. BUT, in general, they are dirty. (The young women are exotic and lovely, but they age poorly, turning into nasty looking, wrinkled crones. The men actually look better as they age.) They have places where they worship rats, feed them daily with milk and grain in big bowls and people will often DRINK out of the same bowls in worship of the rats. (Curdled milk that about 100 dirty hands have been in along with about 200 rat mouths and forepaws.) Cattle wander the streets, leaving behind deposits of urine and manure for people to walk through and cooks in average restaurants don’t think much about washing their hands. Scented soap is not a big thing there among the general population either. I think the British should have remained there a bit longer, developed a different attitude towards the ‘little brown men’ and taught them a few things.
China is, … interesting. It’s no longer the wonderful, lovely place it used to be, full of color, delicate art, strange music and pleasant people who were clean. The Communist powers have laid waste to all of that. You don’t want to go into the commercial kitchens so see how they fix your delicious food – of from what. There are places there where small, sweet, delicate Chinese women will hang up a big snake for you and rip it open, drain its blood and sell it to you while the still living, poor creature writhes in agony behind them. They have a curious lack of sympathy or empathy for the pain of living creatures. The cities off of the tourist track are dirty and not all that sanitary, with tiny, crowded apartments. Those with political clout in the communist party live very well, however.
I figure that is why China is still communist – those in power know it doesn’t work, but they’re living good with lots of money and power and don’t want change.
By the way, for a tasty treat, go to Africa, visit the Watusi and have some blood soup. (I think I got their name wrong, but they used to be fabled warriors.) Some still live mainly on blood and milk, mixed together. Drained right from a cow, mixed in a big, not all that clean wooden bowl and drunk from by all. (Not me!)
Folks, I don’t give a shit what people say, but America is the cleanest, most scenic, friendliest and most varied country in the world. None of the others, no matter how nice, can compare with home, even with our problems.
special:
Uh, no.
I don’t know a single Indian person who, once they moved to the US, stopped eating Indian food altogether. Hell, for many of us, the majority of our diet is Indian food. Even most children who are born here eat Indian food at least once a day and sometimes for all meals on weekends. Trust me, we avoid switching to an American diet if we can help it.
special:
How about, instead of simply speculating when you have no idea, you ask an Indian person?
For the record, Indian parents and relatives, or at least mine and those of my friends, tend to be very fastidious.
I spent one year travelling in Thailand, Australia and (briefly) America. I met an awful lot of fellow travellers, all of us the teen/twentysomething backpacker types.
The Canadians, French, Swiss and Dutch were, generally speaking, the most respectful, unassuming types I met.
A proportion of the British backpackers were loud, drunken and annoying. Sober, though, they were as respectful of local cultures as any local (and in some cases more so).
A much larger proportion of the American (and, it has to be said, German) backpackers I met were much less pleasant to travel with. They were less likely to drink heavily, and I never worried about getting into a fight, but they seemed far more likely to complain loudly, expect things to be done ‘their’ way and to ignore local culture or customs.
I spent a hellish two weeks on a minibus through the outback with one example, a Californian lad who demanded that only his tapes got played on the stereo (until the driver threatened to kick him out), constantly harped on about his income, refused to help out with the cooking or cleaning, slept around in every two-house town we stopped at and nearly attacked a waitress at a petrol station 500 miles from anywhere in the Red Centre because she wouldn’t make him a falafel.
Okay, he was only an example, but that’s the kind of behaviour that seemed more prevalent among the Americans I met than among any other nationality.
Okay, now the caveats. I am not assuming that all Americans, act as the ones I met did. I made some very good friends across the US who I remain in touch with, who in many ways are more tolerant and friendly than most people I know. I am not denying that Brits, or people from any other country, act in this way. I’m just making an observation based upon my personal experiences.
I never touched him, ref, honest!