# Are Americans without degrees completely banned from moving to Canada? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 22, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246 "2015-04-22T01:40:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246/81 "2015-04-23T20:45:37Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > As you might imagine, the likelihood of some guy from Portland who just doesn’t like it there being accepted as a “refugee” is rather slight. Well, now we see the oppression inherent in the system. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246/82 "2015-04-24T05:56:45Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Actually, my understanding is that any province is allowed to set up its own immigration program, but that Quebec is the only one that has. That’s correct. The federal government and the provinces have shared jurisdiction over immigration. It’s not a special power for Quebec. However, Quebec is the only province which has exercised the power to choose its own immigrants. The other provinces are content to leave it to the feds. See the [Constitution Act, 1867, s. 95](http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/Const/page-4.html#h-24). ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246/83 "2015-04-25T04:41:11Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > hijack: Do you have any idea why or it just random? Cause I can seriously say I’ve been across the Canadian border probably 50 times in my life and I have never been pulled aside and searched. I always wonder what it takes. I’ve been across twice, and was pulled over and questioned both times. I guess I look like a loser or something. I’ve been arrested on dui drugs charge just based on my looks though (was proved innocent by blood test). ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246/84 "2015-04-25T13:04:07Z")
> [@bubba001](#): > > That works if you are a engineer or other non union worker. The Big 3 plants there are Canadian Auto Workers Union. I think it would be rather difficult to get hired in there as a hourly employee. The canucks require the companies show that they cannot find a Canadian to fill the job. That would be pretty difficult to do. Yeah, the CAW, for perspective, broke away from the UAW because the UAW wasn’t radical enough for their liking. But in our case (yes, engineers and technical workers), it wasn’t “a job in Canada.” We were still employed by our Michigan employer, and paid in US dollars in our US bank accounts. We were simply performing our jobs in Ontario (to the benefit of Ontario and my US company). FWIW, we did bring hourly people over, but it wasn’t for 12 month spans like the engineers; typically a week or two to train the local national employees). What? Salaried engineers don’t train hourly? Don’t be kidding! Our hourly guys know their jobs a hell of a lot better than we engineers do! (People tend to make jokes at auto employees’ expense; it’s unfair, because it’s not a mindless, stupid job.) ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246/85 "2015-04-25T13:05:25Z")
It’s been in the news recently that the whole Canadian immigration system is backlogged and generally clogged up to a ridiculous degree. IIRC they were planning to toss all the applications and start over at one point. Some countries, the wait to process an application to emigrate to Canada was 3 years. Also recall reading that Canada a little while ago changed its policy to emphasize job fit over family reunion; there was apparently some “concern” over people who immigrated then bringing, mom, dad, grandma, all the uncles an nephews, etc. Without being racist, I do agree - Canada like the USA does not need to import more taxi drivers. So the points system emphasizes the ability to fit in and do (skilled) jobs that are short of workers. (A few years ago it seemed all the new doctors were South African since Canada could always use more GPs willing to work for less than the USA pays.) Canada also has a quota system - they try to be diverse, allow a certain volume of immigrants from each area of the world, so one source does not overwhelm the system. So guess what - you may have some easy qualifiers like being able to speak the language, high school education - but the small pool of fellow applicants likely includes a lot more higher-scoring applicants than say Pakistan or Kenya. If the choice is between you and the plumber and the physics PhD, guess what? To be fair, the US process is equally complex and selective. They simply allow employers to ignore it and hire whoever can make it across the border. If you are being pulled over when visiting Canada, maybe there’s a reason. Keep in mind the US and Canada share their police databases to some extent. There was a recent news article about a woman in a wheelchair who was denied entry to the USA. Apparently a year or two before, while depressed, she attempted suicide. Her name was in the 911 ambulance call, and so popped up on the police database at the US border. The US Border Patrol guard deemed her unfit. However, Canadian border guards do have a small sense of humour - they’ve never shown displeasure when we laugh before answering “no” to the obligatory “are you carrying more than $10,000 in currency?” Even Sven makes a very good point. We had a guide in upper Egypt who mentioned that he had been guiding an American family when the Arab Spring hit there. They invited him to visit them in the USA if he could. For a simple tourist visa, this smart educated young man hit all the wrong points. The USA (and Canada) want to be sure their third world visitors intend to go home,. Is he married, does he have wife and family back home (No). Does he have a steady job? (Tourism is an irregular piecework industry). Does he have a bank account and a decent amount of savings? (A working Joe in Egypt? Puh-leez!) Then to even process the application, sure to be denied, there’s a fee. About the only thing he did qualify on - for a visitor - was good health. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246/86 "2015-04-25T13:52:01Z")
> [@protoboard](#): > > Are there any ways aside from being a professional? I mean, aside from marrying a Canadian chick, which I’ve heard isn’t even enough in some cases (not that I would use someone like that). Marriage to a Canadian, including same sex marriage, is sufficient for immigration provided that it is a real relationship as opposed to a marriage of convenience, and also provided that it is not a polygamous marriage. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246/87 "2015-04-25T14:01:58Z")
Have you considered living in Portland? It might be a good fit. ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246/88 "2015-04-25T14:39:10Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#): > > Have you considered living in Portland? It might be a good fit. Protoboard’s previous thread topic regarded how he wants to flee Portland, so it may not be such a good fit for him. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246/89 "2015-04-25T14:50:19Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Here’s the funny part you CAN just show up, in Canada! Not from the U.S. of course, but as a refugee you absolutely can. And when you get here we’ll send you to where you want, on a bus or train, fund you for a few months so you can get a place and get going, even ESL so you can learn the language, education programs, job search help. All of it. > > That’s how you get called welcoming, AND how you make great citizens. A not insignificant portion are off assistance before it expires! That is all true. There are a couple of provisos though: Safe Country: More than forty countries are designated by Canada as being safe countries, so a citizen of one of those countries will have a hell of a hard time succeeding with a refugee claim. Rather than the full blown admission procedure, they will go through a faster, more summary procedure, with less recourse to appeals. That helps clear the queue of fake refugee claimants. Safe Third Country: Canada and the USA have an agreement that for the most part blocks refugees from a country (country one) arriving in the USA (country 2) and then popping across the border and making a claim in Canada (country 3), and vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246/90 "2015-04-25T15:27:40Z")
> [@protoboard](#): > > It seems pretty ridiculous that I could more easily live in Puerto Rico or American Samoa than in a city 7 hours away from here that largely shares a similar culture. I mean what the? I’m surprised that you think that it should be easier for an American to emigrate outside of US territory than to relocate within US territory. I don’t think you understand the nature of countries wanting to control immigration. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246/91 "2015-04-25T15:51:06Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > No, they have nooooo sense of humor. Last time I went through and the guy asked me “What is your purpose in Canada?” > And I said “Touristy things.” > Except I said “Touristy thi-” and he cut me off and said “What was that?” In a menacing tone with a glower. > > Is it so weird to say “touristy”? People are people. Some have a sense of humour and some don’t. Some are having a good day, and some are having a bad day. For example: Canadian Border Services Agency officer: “Do you have anything to declare?” Muffin: “Half a left-over Sven and Ole’s pizza.” Hungry looking CBSA officer: “I’m going to have to seize that.” Laughter all around. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246/92 "2015-04-25T16:29:34Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > The last time I drove across the border from Montana to Alberta we were stopped by the Canadian guard who asked… > > Guard: Do you have any guns? > Me: No sir. > Guard: Really? Are you sure? > Me: I am sure. I have no guns. > Guard: So you drove here aaaallllll the way from Nevada with no guns? No guns at all? > Me: Uh, yeah. We drove here with no guns. > > I wanted to add something like: “It was close but we made it” but thought better of it. > > 🙂 The goal is to keep the guns out, not to clog up our prisons, so repetition of the question is a useful tool in giving people a chance to come clean, turn back to the USA and get rid of their guns before trying to cross into Canada again. If they don’t come clean and are caught carrying, then the question having been repeated makes it more difficult for them to get off in court. Illegal importation of guns is a big deal in Canada, so the officers tend to give people every opportunity to declare their guns and return the guns to the USA, rather than end up laying serious criminal charges against a person. A lot of Americans simply don’t get the concept that the handguns they freely and rightfully carry about on their person every day in the USA are anathema in Canada. Thus don’t be surprised to be pushed on that question. My neighbour, who is the boss at the local border crossing, has told me that American police officers very often try to get across with their handguns, despite the warning sign at the crossing, and despite being asked if they are bringing in any guns, so if a person seeking admission appears likely to be an American police officer (self-identification, or Friends of Police type sticker), usually the Canadian officer will repeat the question just to give the American officer a chance to come clean. (And in case you are wondering, when caught, the gun is seized and is usually returned to the officer’s employer along with a stern letter, rather than charging the officer. Folks who are not officers may or may not be charged, so yes, there is professional courtesy to the degree that officers are usually not tossed in the can). So perhaps you look like a peace officer. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246/93 "2015-04-25T16:37:28Z")
A reality show that’s actually pretty real: thorough, polite and Canadian dull: _[Border Security: Canada’s Frontline](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Border+Security%3A+Canada%27s+Frontline)_. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246/94 "2015-04-25T17:41:58Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Marriage to a Canadian, including same sex marriage, is sufficient for immigration provided that it is a real relationship as opposed to a marriage of convenience, and also provided that it is not a polygamous marriage. But as others point out, trying to visit while in the process of applying for immigration or marriage entry paperwork will get you the third degree and a possible denial of entry. Coming to visit the future wife? How do we know you won’t do something stupid like not leave when your time is up? There is a one-year(?) work permit that is available under some circumstances. I did note years ago a large number of Australians working in the Canadian ski industry in BC and Alberta. A&NZ I think have a similar arrangement. I know of one couple where the NZ boyfriend was supposed to leave Canada 9 years ago, and one of these days he’s going to get in trouble. Not sure even the anchor baby will help - again, his problem is he didn’t even finish high school. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246/95 "2015-04-25T18:17:02Z")
Yeh, for the last couple of years my local ski hill has been infested with Australians on temporary work permits under the Temporary Foreign Worker Program. IIRC, the individual permits max out at a cumulative four years in Canada. They are a lot of fun and have a terrific work ethic, so they do a very good job at keeping the hill running smoothly, which was not happening prior to their arrival (few Canadians wanted seasonal work, so the hill was left struggling with dregs for employees – liftees fighting rather than loading people on the lifts, being drunk, skipping shifts, late for shifts, not following health and safety requirements, and simply sitting on their asses when the should be performing their job). The Australians get to learn about another county, get some cash in their pockets, and get to ski (which IMHO is one hell of a good perk). Hopefully some of them might decide to study here or even emigrate. We can always use more people like that. That being said, there is room for abuse in the TFWP if employers get away with just using it to displace well paid labour with cheap labour (as was in the news concerning a BC mining outfit a year or so ago), so I think that the program needs careful monitoring. ---
**Author:** ![xnylder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbce88/32.png) [@xnylder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xnylder)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246/96 "2015-04-27T14:33:01Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > That’s correct. The federal government and the provinces have shared jurisdiction over immigration. It’s not a special power for Quebec. However, Quebec is the only province which has exercised the power to choose its own immigrants. The other provinces are content to leave it to the feds. > > See the [Constitution Act, 1867, s. 95](http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/Const/page-4.html#h-24). Thank you for the correction. I had heard a different interpretation of the issue, glad to hear the facts. ---
**Author:** ![protoboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/fbc32d/32.png) [@protoboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/protoboard)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246/97 "2015-04-27T17:54:06Z")
> [@GreenElf](#): > > Protoboard’s previous thread topic regarded how he wants to flee Portland, so it may not be such a good fit for him. 😉 Just recently moved down to Eugene actually. 😃 It’s not Canada, but it’s probably the best I could do in the States and one of the few cities in America that hasn’t been ruined by greed. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246/98 "2015-04-28T01:25:57Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > Completely anecdotal, but I (an American) know five people who have emigrated to Canada to work and live. All five happen to be extended family members. All five are also university professors. > > After reading this thread I have spent considerable time trying to think of even one person who has gone to Canada for any job other than university professor, and have come up completely empty. > > Now I’m quite sure that there are PLENTY of Americans who have gone to Canada to live who have some other job. I just don’t happen to know them. > > (It does make me wonder about the quality of the Canadian university system that they seem to have to import all their professors from the US :)) A good friend of mine did this recently - she is a certified nurse-midwife. She went to an accelerated program at Ryerson where foreign midwives can be recertified in Canada and is now happily living and working in Winnipeg, hoping that her landed immigrant status will come through. She seems to think that the most recent round of revamping the Canadian employment-based immigration process will screw her, because they will find Canadians who can do her job. And yet there is apparently a shortage of trained midwives. For those who know the system, is she just being her sometimes slightly loopy, paranoid self? Or is this a real possibility? ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246/99 "2015-04-28T13:16:16Z")
> [@protoboard](#): > > I just think it’s pretty classist. Just because I’m not a professional or a big shot, doesn’t mean I have nothing to contribute to their society. The fact that you aren’t all those things doesn’t mean that you do have anything to contribute to Canadian society. What exactly do you anticipate living in Canada is going to be like? Why do you think you will be better off there? More to the point you’ve yet to give a single good reason for why Canada should think taking you on is good for Canada? For the record it is probably far more difficult to immigrate to the United States than to Canada. My brother moved to Honduras for a few years where he met and married his wife. It took more than five years for her to be allowed to even enter the United States. She was no slouch either having a university degree and a manager in a textile factory. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246/100 "2015-04-29T10:41:37Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > That’s correct. The federal government and the provinces have shared jurisdiction over immigration. It’s not a special power for Quebec. However, Quebec is the only province which has exercised the power to choose its own immigrants. The other provinces are content to leave it to the feds. > > See the [Constitution Act, 1867, s. 95](http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/Const/page-4.html#h-24). That makes me wonder. If you get admitted to live in Quebec are you allowed to move to another province? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-americans-without-degrees-completely-banned-from-moving-to-canada/718246.md?page=6)