# Are anthrax vaccines killing American military personnel?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [June 3, 2003, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410 "2003-06-03T17:47:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Interrobang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interrobang)
#### Post date: [June 3, 2003, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410/1 "2003-06-03T17:47:13Z")
Last night at the Seattle International Film Festival, I saw a documentary called _Direct Order_, which essentially argues that Gulf War Syndrome (and/or a number of other health problems – the documentary isn’t that clear) is caused by the anthrax vaccines that American troops have received since the early 1990s. The military is not only covering this up – it’s continuing to give troops the anthrax vaccine.
From the film’s [website](http://www.directorder.org/site/):
> [@](#):
>
> Direct Order was made to draw attention to the plight of the brave men and women who are suffering from the after effects of Anthrax Vaccinations. Since the US Military is in a state of denial about the problem, these men and women need our help to insure that their suffering receives the attention it deserves.
Okay, that’s a theory. Problem is, the documentary is a mess – it’s a mishmash of anecdotal evidence, interviews with ailing personnel and assertions of what is true. It plays like a paranoid website (complete with on-screen text with important points in ALL CAPS), so I wasn’t surprised to hear the director say he discovered the story on the Internet.
What’s the straight dope? Are anthrax vaccines, tainted or otherwise, responsible for killing American troops or giving them chronic, debilitating health problems?
(I’m looking for scientific evidence in this thread, not a debate about the ethics of the anthrax vaccine program. Feel free to start a GD thread if you’ve got an axe to grind.)
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### Author:  [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)
#### Post date: [June 3, 2003, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410/2 "2003-06-03T19:13:29Z")
Considering that troops who fought in the Gulf War are every bit as healthy as the general population, if anthrax vaccines are killing the vets, there must be something also killing the non-vets to make it balance out.
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### Author:  [@Interrobang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interrobang)
#### Post date: [June 3, 2003, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410/3 "2003-06-03T19:59:04Z")
That was one of my biggest questions, which went completely unaddressed by the film: are military personnel getting ill or dying in greater numbers than the rest of the population? There’s no background information given at all.
To make things more confusing, the people interviewed in the film aren’t Gulf War vets – they’re people who got vaccinated in the late 1990s. Yet the film still calls their illness Gulf War Syndrome, without explaining why.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised to hear that there’s no evidence for the film’s claims – I started out skeptical and only got more so as the film went on. But I’m certainly interested in the evidence.
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### Author:  [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)
#### Post date: [June 3, 2003, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410/4 "2003-06-03T21:46:17Z")
Well, I’m not dead, so there’s one down.
Why don’t you poll each and every person in the military and see if they’re dead? 😛
OK, really. According to [www.acq.osd.mil/cp/anthraxvaxpresentation.pdf+DOD+anthrax+statistics&hl=en&ie=UTF-8](http://216.239.57.100/search?q=cache:Q_2eN38OksYJ:%5Burl)"]this, the adverse affects from the anthrax vaccine are minimal. The numbers here say 806 out of 508,709, for a rate of .16%.
I’ll roll the dice on that, especially since refusal will cost me my job.
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### Author:  [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)
#### Post date: [June 3, 2003, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410/5 "2003-06-03T21:56:21Z")
In the November 2002 “National Geographic”, there was a big story on WMDs, and a bit about preparedness. The caption on pages 30-31 read:
> [@](#):
>
> She used to be a top gun, the only female helicopter pilot in her squad, but now Ronda Wilson finds life most comfortable in a fetal position. The reason, she says: biological friendly fire. In 1998 the Pentagon, frearul of germ warfare’s growing threat, began to vaccinate all military personnel for anthrax. "Basically, we were told to ‘shut up and stick your arm out,’"Ronda says. She stopped menstruating after the first shot, and by the third of the six-shot series had lost a third of her body weight due to stomach paralysis. As the vaccines alleged casualties - including six deaths - mounted, soldiers began refusing it; 400 so far have either resigned or been court-martialed. But with untreated inhalational anthrax almost invariably fatal, the vaccine may be a risk worth taking. In June the U.S. government announced it would stockpile it for civilians.
My sister is in the AF, I’ll see if I can find out if she knows anything. I doubt that the military would knowingly be killing off their own volunteers, but for me, it does raise the question of what sort of testing was done prior to approving the vaccine.
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### Author:  [@Bernard\_Marx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bernard_Marx)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2003, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410/6 "2003-06-04T00:54:38Z")
As I understand it, the anthrax vaccine given to American (and Australian) military personnel has been around since the sixties. It’s also routinely given to other people who might come into contact with anthrax, such as veterinarians. No long term statistically significant side effects have been reported in forty-odd years of use. At least that’s what my MO said when he gave me the injection three months ago. I’ve had three of the four shots required and haven’t had any side effects yet, nor has anyone else in my unit.
The shot can knock you around a bit though…some people experienced nausea and some fairly severe pain around the injection site for a few days.
I don’t have a cite for the non-existence of side effects, except personal experience…does that count?
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### Author:  [@Bernard\_Marx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bernard_Marx)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410/7 "2003-06-04T01:13:09Z")
Also should mention, I think that the Nerve Agent Pre-Treatment Set (NAPS) tablets which were taken as a precaution against chemical attack, are more widely regarded as a probable cause of Gulf War Syndrome, although again the evidence is sketchy.
Many of my colleagues in the second Gulf War were happy to get the anthrax injection, but had no intention of EVER taking NAPS tablets. Of course this isn’t evidence, but there you go…
Long report[here](http://www.chronicillnet.org/PGWS/tuite/CHEMBIO.HTM)
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### Author:  [@vertigo\_lady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vertigo_lady)
#### Post date: [August 18, 2003, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410/8 "2003-08-18T11:44:26Z")
Vaccines were contaminated. Does it matter that ONLY 1 - 5 % of the people have been damaged from it? The military refuses to recognize that 1 - 5 % and take care of them.
It’s Gulf War syndrome all over again because that’s where they were supposed to be going when the shots were given out.
There’s a lot of false information out there. The military is promoting most of it.
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### Author:  [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)
#### Post date: [August 18, 2003, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410/9 "2003-08-18T12:08:37Z")
The worry about smallpox use as a terror weapon may be misplaced.
> **[OHSU researchers publish final results of groundbreaking smallpox vaccination...](https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/513448)**
>
> OHSU researchers have published final results of a study showing that in the advent of a smallpox outbreak, casualties may be lower than expected. In fact, 90 percent of those vaccinated 25 to 75 years ago maintain a substantial level of immunity....
The old vaccinations froom 25-75 years ago work better than we thought.
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### Author:  [@Yeah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeah)
#### Post date: [August 18, 2003, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410/10 "2003-08-18T12:35:38Z")
In case there’s anybody out there interested in the straight dope, you can find the Institute of Medicine report at
[http://www.nap.edu/html/anthrax\_vaccine/](http://www.nap.edu/html/anthrax_vaccine/)
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### Author:  [@heresiarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heresiarch)
#### Post date: [August 18, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410/11 "2003-08-18T15:01:44Z")
I’m another active duty AF member who’s had all his Anthrax shots, and I’m OK. I had no side effects and no unusual soreness around the injection site. I don’t know anyone that had a reaction worse than a little nausea or weak flu-like symptoms.
Almost every active duty member has had the Anthrax vaccine by now. If even 1% had a serious reaction to it, it would be extremely difficult to keep under wraps. We’re talking about hundreds of thousands of people and a vaccine that’s been in use for decades (by veterinarians and ranchers). I don’t think the Anthrax vaccine is related to Gulf War Syndrome.
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### Author:  [@cynobyte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cynobyte)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2011, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410/12 "2011-04-05T08:54:16Z")
I took the shots from 98 to 2000… one was fav030… started out with liver problems when i got out in late 2001. then had problems concentrating a year later… in 2005 from a carwreck i had an mri that found spinal problems that lead to a fusion of my spine c2-c6. the pain kept increasing starting with arthritis, then diagnosed with polyarteritis nodosia… all symptoms were from an overactive immune system… same side effects if you look on the sides of the anthrax vaccine bottle from bioport… they dont happen over night fellas, they take up to a decade… the shots from 98-2001 were the worse… if you had shots during this time, 58% of you will get sick… My civilain doctors know it was the anthrax shots, the fda knows it was the anthrax shots, the va and military hospitals says it is not… so, if you get sick, goto a civilian doc and hope you have money and insurance because uncle sam will leave you!
If you ever think i am a nut, i can show you my medical records over the last decade after the shots and some before the shots… proof is in the puddin…
my thought to why the government doesnt recognise it, thousands of gi’s will die from it. if they admit fault, that will be billions in reparations…
If another country tried unproven chemicals on its people, they would be prosecuted for war crimes! Our leaders got paid to do this to us and we suffer… Its time for them to be prosecuted… To give the shots voluntarily is one thing, but to force us to take them and kill us is another…
please dont say you are fine right now, you are just lucky for now… give it 10 years and if the pain is bearable, you were lucky… as for me, I am trying to find a cure, I search for others as bad as i am, only to find them dead with heart attacks and suicide from the pain… were they fine?
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2011, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410/13 "2011-04-05T09:22:58Z")
Any time you vaccinate massive numbers of people a certain number will have bad reactions to it, up to and including death. This has nothing to do with vaccines being “untested” or “contaminated”, but rather due to human variation.
The question is whether or not the military had an unusually high number of such adverse reactions.
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### Author:  [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2011, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410/14 "2011-04-05T12:32:29Z")
How does the vaccine work on zombies, that’s what I want to know.
Also note, that if 58% of those serving in 1991 were going to get debilitatingly ill, it would be all over the news as millions of veterans dropped dead or were crippled.
Clearly, you’re numbers are wrong, and remember, anecdote does not equal evidence.
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### Author:  [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2011, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410/15 "2011-04-05T14:51:43Z")
> [@cynobyte](#):
>
> I My civilain doctors know it was the anthrax shots, the fda knows it was the anthrax shots, the va and military hospitals says it is not.. so, if you get sick, goto a civilian doc and hope you have money and insurance because uncle sam will leave you!
>
> If you ever think i am a nut, i can show you my medical records over the last decade after the shots and some before the shots.. proof is in the puddin.
What does your psychologist say?
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### Author:  [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410/16 "2011-04-06T01:57:59Z")
> [@cynobyte](#):
>
> I took the shots from 98 to 2000.. one was fav030.. started out with liver problems when i got out in late 2001. then had problems concentrating a year later.. in 2005 from a carwreck i had an mri that found spinal problems that lead to a fusion of my spine c2-c6. the pain kept increasing starting with arthritis, then diagnosed with polyarteritis nodosia.. all symptoms were from an overactive immune system.. same side effects if you look on the sides of the anthrax vaccine bottle from bioport.?
So the government is covering up the dangers of anthrax vaccines by listing them on the sides of the bottles?
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### Author:  [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410/17 "2011-04-06T02:03:46Z")
> [@cynobyte](#):
>
> my thought to why the government doesnt recognise it, thousands of gi’s will die from it. if they admit fault, that will be billions in reparations..
You mean WHOLE Billions? With a big ‘B’? Now there’s some incentive for a cover-up.
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### Author:  [@cynobyte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cynobyte)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2011, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410/18 "2011-06-24T07:42:53Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#):
>
> What does your psychologist say?
she’s actually helping me with my case.. She retired a couple years ago and was affected by the anthrax shots too..
I took my medical paperwork over the last decade and the doctors had no problems linking it to the shots..
as for the 58 percent, it was a report done at dover AFB 5 years after the shots of fav030.. I’m looking again for the report to make it public again..
yes the side effects are printed on the side of the bottles and listed at the fda website.. I have several of them.. I sent the information to brooks army hospital. They think that symptoms like polyarteritis nodosia, fibromyalgia, rhumatoid arthritis, and several other problems I have should have popped up within the first year, while the rest of the medical profession knows these symptoms can develope over years to decades..
I’m sure there are other things you guys were bashing, dont care.. I got the VA to admit to me these cases are real, actually just the doctors.. problem is right now if you get one to put it in writing, it would be their career.. My civilian doctors will tell you all day it was the anthrax shots, but just dont ask them to write it down.. So, they are just working to help cure me and slide me into the VA with 100 percent disability under other things since I cannot link these diseases to my military career without the anthrax.. pretty sad, they just want to save a penny..
Had a heart test done last week that shows I had a heart attack, but I dont remember having one.. but I have the scar tissure on my heart to show it? They had to increase my fentynol patches a couple weeks ago because the pain level was getting too high.. I already knew about the suicides from the pain and the heart conditions.. This is why I have been pushing to see a cardiologist, and there it was..
It is going to be the few percent that have an adverse reaction to this shot that will go fast, they are probably gone by now from the heart problems and suicide.. then there are the rest of us that are depending on how our immune systems were before the shots.. was there something in the immune system that was weak and mutated from the squalene, or was it something else.. dont know yet, just know the symptoms all start out the same..
If you think you have been affected by the anthrax shots, have blood tests done.. Its better to have then done over time back to the time of the shots..
check the following:
ALT
AST
c-reactive protine
Adolases
they may not be spelled right, dont care tonight.. just trying to help..
If all 4 show high at the same time, I’d say seek help! they are already telling you something is wrong, but all 4 at the same time? there are a few more things I look for in people’s records to see, but i dont want them to fake the symptoms..
I have found quite a few people suffering from the shots now and sad to know I’m not alone, but happy to know i have proof now.. I have several doctors on my side. Even working on a US senator to make this public to send out letters to all that were given shots and have tests on them to see if they have the disease or will be getting the disesase.. I call it a disease, but it is a collection of diseases..
I am also trying to get the dishonearble discharge of over 1200 people for refusing the shots overturned… some of them got really sick from taking a couple shots and rather refuse.. now they are suffering and the gov should pay for that.. We were trained to refuse orders that were wrong, and this wasn’t a “wrong order”?
So mock it, say it doesnt exist, I don’t care.. I’m trying to save my life and fighting for those who are still out there trying to find what is wrong with them while the doctors are diagnosing them wrong and killing them slowly.. When your joints and tissure are destroyed by arthritis, they dont heal back to normal.. We need to stop it before it happens.. personally I am taking chemo daily to kill my immune system so it quits eating my insides.. my immune system has already overcome the dose I take because my infection chances are low as compared to when i started.. The first time I got sick in over a decade was after my 2nd iv chemo treatment, that was pneumonia ( i would have just settled for a cold:)..
If you think you are suffering from these shots, you can find me in [http://forums.spondylitis.org](http://forums.spondylitis.org) under cynobyte.. I cannot offer much but support and where to start right now.. I am trying to get a list of survivors together so we can compare notes on meds and trials.. I am sick too often, so please dont play games, only contact if you are really inflicted or can help..
I probably will not remember this site tomorrow and not look back here until i start researching and come across it again and find i already posted.. The AS website is where I found support and what I was first diagnosed with, so I stick with them.. night all, hope I answered your questions right this time.. Its not a joke to us that have it.. Its our life, just hope you get lucky and it doesnt affect your immune system like it did mine and others.. I dont wish this on anyone except those who deny it is real to save money.. cyn
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### Author:  [@cynobyte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cynobyte)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2011, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410/19 "2011-06-24T07:46:45Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#):
>
> So the government is covering up the dangers of anthrax vaccines by listing them on the sides of the bottles?
last thing, check where congress gave bioport immunity from any bad outcome from the anthrax shots.. so why not label the side effects.. I cant sue them..
the side effects are also posted on the FDA website.. basically any disease that involves the immune system! but not just one, you get a whole bundle of immune diseases that is very unlikely in nature to occur together..
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### Author:  [@cynobyte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cynobyte)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2011, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anthrax-vaccines-killing-american-military-personnel/179410/20 "2011-06-24T07:58:53Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> Any time you vaccinate massive numbers of people a certain number will have bad reactions to it, up to and including death. This has nothing to do with vaccines being “untested” or “contaminated”, but rather due to human variation.
>
> The question is whether or not the military had an unusually high number of such adverse reactions.
I just can believe I didnt see this one either.. check out bioports inspections.. lot fav030 was only one lot found by the fda to be “contaminated” with squalene.. then they also found some bacteria called “myco” i cant remmeber the name tonight. these are now documented in most physicians reports, one journal is called lupis..
so there were adverse reaction guys, but there was alot of bad batches too.. I cant remember tonight but a few of the lots administered were outdated by years! The arcticles were either on the fda website or the findings from the lawsuits to ban the shots.. Either way it was evidence in court, but they didnt care.. thats how bioport got the congressional pardon “liscense to kill”..
I dont know, maybe i just dreamed it up, taking chemo daily for something that didnt happen must mean I’m crazy:smack:
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