# Are anti-racism employment practices, in their effect, racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 29, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anti-racism-employment-practices-in-their-effect-racist/562316 "2010-11-29T19:18:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anti-racism-employment-practices-in-their-effect-racist/562316/41 "2010-12-05T03:27:47Z")
> [@iamnotaparakeet](#): > > Why not also have Affirmative Action policies to undo some of the effects of the currently socially acceptable targets of racism, sexism, and age discrimination? I wouldn’t be opposed to it if there’s a compelling need. If your argument is that young people and white men are the targets of that racism and discrimination now, though, I just don’t buy it. In any case protected classes are broader than that. Equal opportunity employers can’t discriminate based on race, religion, or national origin, for example. That means those factors can’t enter into the hiring process - it doesn’t mean they _can_ discriminate against white Christian Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anti-racism-employment-practices-in-their-effect-racist/562316/42 "2010-12-05T08:08:41Z")
> [@iamnotaparakeet](#): > > Why not also have Affirmative Action policies to undo some of the effects of the currently socially acceptable targets of racism, sexism, and age discrimination? Because you haven’t provided any evidence that this discrimination exists outside of your imagination. The fact that your local White Castle hired a middle-aged black woman doesn’t mean that there is a widespread pattern of discrimination against young white men. ---
**Author:** ![iamnotaparakeet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9bd4f/32.png) [@iamnotaparakeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamnotaparakeet)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anti-racism-employment-practices-in-their-effect-racist/562316/43 "2010-12-07T15:11:30Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Equal opportunity employers can’t discriminate based on race, religion, or national origin, for example. That means those factors can’t enter into the hiring process - it doesn’t mean they _can_ discriminate against white Christian Americans. Can versus may. You seem to be highly oppositional in any debate, as am I, is this by purpose or by character? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anti-racism-employment-practices-in-their-effect-racist/562316/44 "2010-12-07T15:13:19Z")
> [@iamnotaparakeet](#): > > Can versus may. You seem to be highly oppositional in any debate, as am I, is this by purpose or by character? How are those cites coming along? ---
**Author:** ![iamnotaparakeet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9bd4f/32.png) [@iamnotaparakeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamnotaparakeet)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anti-racism-employment-practices-in-their-effect-racist/562316/45 "2010-12-07T23:39:58Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > How are those cites coming along? Speak plainly please. ---
**Author:** ![iamnotaparakeet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9bd4f/32.png) [@iamnotaparakeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamnotaparakeet)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anti-racism-employment-practices-in-their-effect-racist/562316/46 "2010-12-07T23:53:29Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Because you haven’t provided any evidence that this discrimination exists outside of your imagination. The fact that your local White Castle hired a middle-aged black woman doesn’t mean that there is a widespread pattern of discrimination against young white men. Actually, that would be 4 out of the 5 employees, the only 4 who regularly work there. Occasionally they hire a non-black person for a few days. Also, “my imagination”, or memory rather, recalls working for an employer who sought to hire as many minorities as possible. When asked for an explanation, she would go into how she’s related to Indians and how evil Whiteman is and how Whiteman needs to pay for the crimes and thought crimes of the past generations. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anti-racism-employment-practices-in-their-effect-racist/562316/47 "2010-12-07T23:55:12Z")
> [@iamnotaparakeet](#): > > Speak plainly please. I’m not Marley but I believe he is making the point that you’re avoiding providing evidence to support your claims. ---
**Author:** ![iamnotaparakeet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9bd4f/32.png) [@iamnotaparakeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamnotaparakeet)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anti-racism-employment-practices-in-their-effect-racist/562316/48 "2010-12-08T00:20:49Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m not Marley but I believe he is making the point that you’re avoiding providing evidence to support your claims. I’m not avoiding it, I’m just not going to be anyone’s search engine. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anti-racism-employment-practices-in-their-effect-racist/562316/49 "2010-12-08T00:38:12Z")
> [@iamnotaparakeet](#): > > I’m not avoiding it, I’m just not going to be anyone’s search engine. Then you’re not going to convince anyone either. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anti-racism-employment-practices-in-their-effect-racist/562316/50 "2010-12-08T02:30:14Z")
> [@iamnotaparakeet](#): > > I’m not avoiding it, I’m just not going to be anyone’s search engine. This is a debate forum. If you make an assertion, it is up to you to provide the support for that assertion. You are not obligated to do so. However, a gratuitous assertion may be gratuitously denied and if you are not going to bother to support your claims with outside references, you are, in effect, declaring that you have no serious argument and that other posters should feel free to ignore you. ---
**Author:** ![iamnotaparakeet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9bd4f/32.png) [@iamnotaparakeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamnotaparakeet)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anti-racism-employment-practices-in-their-effect-racist/562316/51 "2010-12-08T03:00:52Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This is a debate forum. If you make an assertion, it is up to you to provide the support for that assertion. > > You are not obligated to do so. However, a gratuitous assertion may be gratuitously denied and if you are not going to bother to support your claims with outside references, you are, in effect, declaring that you have no serious argument and that other posters should feel free to ignore you. Gratuitously ignore me all you like. It is your choice as to whether you read or reply, so feel free to exercise this inalienable right to your heart’s content. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anti-racism-employment-practices-in-their-effect-racist/562316/52 "2010-12-08T03:18:24Z")
Okay, but if this is just going to be a thread about how you can’t get a job, it belongs in MPSIMS. ---
**Author:** ![iamnotaparakeet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9bd4f/32.png) [@iamnotaparakeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamnotaparakeet)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anti-racism-employment-practices-in-their-effect-racist/562316/53 "2010-12-08T03:30:53Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Okay, but if this is just going to be a thread about how you can’t get a job, it belongs in MPSIMS. I have a job now. Sorry, I’m still k’vetching about what I perceive as racial discrimination regardless of my employment status. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anti-racism-employment-practices-in-their-effect-racist/562316/54 "2010-12-08T03:32:10Z")
Fair enough, but there are other forums for kvetching. This one is for debate, and that means backing up your assertions with outside sources. ---
**Author:** ![iamnotaparakeet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9bd4f/32.png) [@iamnotaparakeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamnotaparakeet)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anti-racism-employment-practices-in-their-effect-racist/562316/55 "2010-12-08T03:40:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Fair enough, but there are other forums for kvetching. This one is for debate, and that means backing up your assertions with outside sources. That is only one type of debate. Argumentation is not dependent upon the source of data and neither is the truth or falsity of data utilized. Whether the data is firsthand knowledge, gathered statistics, or links to some officially random website, its accuracy is dependent upon how well it reflects the actual situation and not merely where the data is from. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anti-racism-employment-practices-in-their-effect-racist/562316/56 "2010-12-08T03:46:49Z")
But you don’t have any data _at all_. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anti-racism-employment-practices-in-their-effect-racist/562316/57 "2010-12-08T03:47:40Z")
> [@iamnotaparakeet](#): > > Gratuitously ignore me all you like. It is your choice as to whether you read or reply, so feel free to exercise this inalienable right to your heart’s content. Actually, since this was supposed to be YOUR debate and you do not appear to have any interest in actually supporting it, I think we can all just ignore it. Closed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-anti-racism-employment-practices-in-their-effect-racist/562316.md?page=2)