# Are any national-level politicians on record as completely writing off creationism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 7, 2008, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-any-national-level-politicians-on-record-as-completely-writing-off-creationism/466833 "2008-10-07T13:55:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-any-national-level-politicians-on-record-as-completely-writing-off-creationism/466833/1 "2008-10-07T13:55:34Z")
Are there any politicians out there, with a national profile, who have been blunt and forthright about creationism’s scientific validity? Anyone gone on record basically saying “It should not be taught in science classes … the evidence supports evolution”? ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-any-national-level-politicians-on-record-as-completely-writing-off-creationism/466833/2 "2008-10-07T14:15:33Z")
[Rep Pete Stark](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Stark)? He’s an atheist, so I imagine that that precludes any belief in the validity of creationism or that it should be taught in science class. ---
**Author:** ![kenner116](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecb155/32.png) [@kenner116](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenner116)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-any-national-level-politicians-on-record-as-completely-writing-off-creationism/466833/3 "2008-10-07T14:24:31Z")
[Biden is strongly against creationism and has ridiculed it publicly.](http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/08/23/bidens-embellishments-could-provide-easy-fodder-for-gop/) > [@](#): > > Joe Biden also used unusually strong language to ridicule those who believe in creationism or intelligent design. > > “I refuse to believe the majority of people believe this malarkey!” the senior senator from Delaware exclaimed. > > But less than six months earlier, CBS News conducted a poll that found a majority of Americans (51 percent) do believe that God created humans in their present form. Even larger majorities reject the theory of evolution, according to the poll. But sadly, rational thought is seen as a negative trait by half of the country. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-any-national-level-politicians-on-record-as-completely-writing-off-creationism/466833/4 "2008-10-07T16:07:43Z")
> [@Szlater](#): > > [Rep Pete Stark](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Stark)? He’s an atheist, so I imagine that that precludes any belief in the validity of creationism or that it should be taught in science class. Ah, my own congressman. Ed ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-any-national-level-politicians-on-record-as-completely-writing-off-creationism/466833/5 "2008-10-07T18:07:53Z")
Depends what you classify as “blunt and forthright”. Just a few weeks ago, _Nature_ submitted [a series of questions on science policy](http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080903/full/455446a.html) to both the current presidential candidates. I’d describe Obama’s answer as carefully worded rather than “blunt and forthright”, but it is indeed basically saying “[ID] should not be taught in science classes … the evidence supports evolution”. (McCain’s camp declined to take part; to get a comparison, _Nature_ quotes from previous statements by him.) > [@](#): > > **Do you believe that evolution by means of natural selection is a sufficient explanation for the variety and complexity of life on Earth? Should intelligent design, or some derivative thereof, be taught in science class in public schools?** > > **Obama:** I believe in evolution, and I support the strong consensus of the scientific community that evolution is scientifically validated. I do not believe it is helpful to our students to cloud discussions of science with non-scientific theories like intelligent design that are not subject to experimental scrutiny. > > **McCain** _said last year, in a Republican primary debate: “I believe in evolution. But I also believe, when I hike the Grand Canyon and see it at sunset, that the hand of God is there also.” In 2005, he told the Arizona Daily Star that he thought “all points of view” should be available to students studying the origins of humanity. But the next year a Colorado paper reported him saying that such viewpoints should not be taught in science class._ ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-any-national-level-politicians-on-record-as-completely-writing-off-creationism/466833/6 "2008-10-07T18:13:56Z")
I don’t understand why people are so opposed to talking about ID in the classroom. I wish I was able to find out the other side of the evolution debate so I could ask my teachers questions about it. Namely, why it’s ridiculous. Now I’m left to my own devices to try to prove it wrong. The reason 51% of people believe in ID is because no one’s ever dispelled it for them. Therefore, it is totally unreasonable to assume that a politician that says “I think students should hear all view points.” is rooting for the ID side to win out. To me, it’s clear that McCain is saying “ID is phooey, and let’s teach that to the kids so they don’t grow up stupid.” ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-any-national-level-politicians-on-record-as-completely-writing-off-creationism/466833/7 "2008-10-07T18:28:33Z")
> [@IntelSoldier](#): > > I don’t understand why people are so opposed to talking about ID in the classroom. I wish I was able to find out the other side of the evolution debate so I could ask my teachers questions about it. Except there is no “other side” and there is no debate. People actually thinking there are “two sides” to this is where the first problem lies. There’s not. There’s one side with a mountain of evidence and science backing it up, and there’s another side with absolutely no evidence, bad science, misconceptions, and other religious nonsense. ID is a scientifically unsupported, religious fairy tale and if people want to discuss it, they should be doing so in a theology class. ID shouldn’t be discussed in a biology classroom any more than astrology should be discussed in an astronomy class. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-any-national-level-politicians-on-record-as-completely-writing-off-creationism/466833/8 "2008-10-07T18:40:59Z")
> [@IntelSoldier](#): > > I don’t understand why people are so opposed to talking about ID in the classroom. If “talking about it” means saying that it is complete and total bullshit, then I agree with you. Unfortunately, that’s not what it means. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-any-national-level-politicians-on-record-as-completely-writing-off-creationism/466833/9 "2008-10-07T19:06:57Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > Except there is no “other side” and there is no debate. People actually thinking there are “two sides” to this is where the first problem lies. There’s not. There’s one side with a mountain of evidence and science backing it up, and there’s another side with absolutely no evidence, bad science, misconceptions, and other religious nonsense. ID is a scientifically unsupported, religious fairy tale and if people want to discuss it, they should be doing so in a theology class. ID shouldn’t be discussed in a biology classroom any more than astrology should be discussed in an astronomy class. ID would be an excellent topic in science class from the perspective of teaching the scientific method. Here is evolution, with all the research, evidence, and peer review that goes into developing a scientific theory. Here is ID, which has none of that (and therefore isn’t really science). One of the reasons so many people advocate the “teach the controversy” hooey is that they don’t understand what science and the scientific method are. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-any-national-level-politicians-on-record-as-completely-writing-off-creationism/466833/10 "2008-10-07T19:25:21Z")
The word “creationism” can mean different things to different people. So, even if a politician didn’t mind alienating people he actually did disagree with, he’d have to be very careful how he worded his “complete writing off of creationism” so that he didn’t alienate a lot of other people as well (such as, for example, the people who believe that evolution is the (or a) mechanism God used to create the world’s plant and animal life). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-any-national-level-politicians-on-record-as-completely-writing-off-creationism/466833/11 "2008-10-07T19:57:44Z")
I highly recommend you all see the Peabody-winning NOVA special “Judgment Day: Intelligent Design on Trial,” about the Dover, Pa. intelligent-design controversy and subsequent Federal lawsuit. A fascinating account, with interviews with all of the major participants, including school board members, teachers, students, and even the judge who decided the case. Good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-any-national-level-politicians-on-record-as-completely-writing-off-creationism/466833/12 "2008-10-07T20:23:39Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > The word “creationism” can mean different things to different people. So, even if a politician didn’t mind alienating people he actually did disagree with, he’d have to be very careful how he worded his “complete writing off of creationism” so that he didn’t alienate a lot of other people as well (such as, for example, the people who believe that evolution is the (or a) mechanism God used to create the world’s plant and animal life). I assumed this was true when writing the OP, but I was curious is some politicians threw caution to the wind. In another thread over in GQ, there is an ongoing discussion about future Republican presidential candidates. One was mentioned (LA governor Bobby Jindal), and then slapped down by another poster for being pro-intelligent-design-in-schools. I am wondering how many politicians – of either party – were able to get away with a strong and public denunciation of creation. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-any-national-level-politicians-on-record-as-completely-writing-off-creationism/466833/13 "2008-10-07T21:13:16Z")
Does [The Pope](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,424942,00.html) count ?