# Are arsonists dealt with harshly enough in this country? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 16, 2014, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-arsonists-dealt-with-harshly-enough-in-this-country/688582 "2014-05-16T13:38:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MizQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/94ad74/32.png) [@MizQuirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MizQuirk)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-arsonists-dealt-with-harshly-enough-in-this-country/688582/1 "2014-05-16T13:38:05Z")
What is the penalty if someone is found guilty of starting a damaging fire? Witnessing the fires in California, I’m not sure there could be a punishment that would be appropriate, as far as I’m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-arsonists-dealt-with-harshly-enough-in-this-country/688582/2 "2014-05-16T13:44:59Z")
While, yes, deliberately setting a wildland fire should be a pretty serious crime, if you have the right fuel conditions, the fire is going to happen sooner or later regardless of whether it’s a natural, accidental or intentional start. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-arsonists-dealt-with-harshly-enough-in-this-country/688582/3 "2014-05-16T14:54:20Z")
[Here](http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=450-457.1) is the relevant arson statute in California. From there we learn the definition of arson in California and the penalties for various types: > [@California](#): > > (a) Arson that causes great bodily injury is a felony punishable > by imprisonment in the state prison for five, seven, or nine years. > (b) Arson that causes an inhabited structure or inhabited property > to burn is a felony punishable by imprisonment in the state prison > for three, five, or eight years. > (c) Arson of a structure or forest land is a felony punishable by > imprisonment in the state prison for two, four, or six years. > (d) Arson of property is a felony punishable by imprisonment in > the state prison for 16 months, two, or three years. For purposes of > this paragraph, arson of property does not include one burning or > causing to be burned his or her own personal property unless there is > an intent to defraud or there is injury to another person or another > person’s structure, forest land, or property. > (e) In the case of any person convicted of violating this section > while confined in a state prison, prison road camp, prison forestry > camp, or other prison camp or prison farm, or while confined in a > county jail while serving a term of imprisonment for a felony or > misdemeanor conviction, any sentence imposed shall be consecutive to > the sentence for which the person was then confined. In California we also have aggravated arson for more serious cases: > [@California](#): > > 451.5. (a) Any person who willfully, maliciously, deliberately, > with premeditation, and with intent to cause injury to one or more > persons or to cause damage to property under circumstances likely to > produce injury to one or more persons or to cause damage to one or > more structures or inhabited dwellings, sets fire to, burns, or > causes to be burned, or aids, counsels, or procures the burning of > any residence, structure, forest land, or property is guilty of > aggravated arson if one or more of the following aggravating factors > exists: > (1) The defendant has been previously convicted of arson on one or > more occasions within the past 10 years. > (2) (A) The fire caused property damage and other losses in excess > of six million five hundred thousand dollars ($6,500,000). > … > (3) The fire caused damage to, or the destruction of, five or more > inhabited structures. And the penalty for that is more harsh: > [@California](#): > > (b) Any person who is convicted under subdivision (a) shall be > punished by imprisonment in the state prison for 10 years to life. > (c) Any person who is sentenced under subdivision (b) shall not be > eligible for release on parole until 10 calendar years have elapsed. Seems pretty reasonable to me. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-arsonists-dealt-with-harshly-enough-in-this-country/688582/4 "2014-05-16T15:33:11Z")
I think arsonist are generally given severe sentences, (if caught). Arson, however, is [much rarer](http://sos.strateja-xl.com/professional-information/Articles/The_Truth_About_Arson.pdf)then most of us think, and usually is not “arson for profit.” ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-arsonists-dealt-with-harshly-enough-in-this-country/688582/5 "2014-05-16T15:46:57Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I think arsonist are generally given severe sentences, (if caught). Arson, however, is [much rarer](http://sos.strateja-xl.com/professional-information/Articles/The_Truth_About_Arson.pdf)then most of us think, and usually is not “arson for profit.” Also most arsonists are never caught. Unless they are discovered while in the process of setting a fire or if they brag about it afterwards, most of the time the evidence of their crime is destroyed by the fire that they set. That’s the reason that there are so few arsonists in prison for the actions. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-arsonists-dealt-with-harshly-enough-in-this-country/688582/6 "2014-05-16T15:57:09Z")
One problem with this is that intent should matter, just like any other crime. I’ve got two stories: A friend of mine in High School had a party in an abandoned barn. He had a bonfire, and it got out of control and burned down the building. The firemen let it burn. The next morning the chief was walking around the site inspecting the damage and he fell and sprained his ankle. My friend got in big trouble for this. Second story is Steve “the Rifleman” Flemmi. He was the right hand man of Whitey Bulger who ruled the Boston crime scene for a couple decades. There’s a story in one of the many books about that era that talks about a hit Flemmi was trying to do. The target knew they were after him, and knew the cops were all on Whitey and Billy’s payroll, so he was basically doomed. He never left his apartment because he was so afraid. Flemmi’s planned response? The guy lived in the top floor of a four floor apartment building. Each floor was a separate apartment. He simply had to wait until the first floor tenant left for work. Break in. Light a fire that would burn the whole building. Then wait next door with his rifle. The victim would either burn to death or try for the fire escape where he could shoot him. He had no concern for the second and third floor apartments. My high school pal and Flemmi are both technically arsonists, but they certainly should not be treated the same. Intent matters for a lot.