# Are artifcial flavors really artificial? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 6, 2000, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-artifcial-flavors-really-artificial/10006 "2000-04-06T05:18:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralphredan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f4b2a3/32.png) [@ralphredan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralphredan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2000, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-artifcial-flavors-really-artificial/10006/1 "2000-04-06T05:18:00Z")
Are artifcial flavors really artificial? Can you figure out the ingredients that go into some of the common ones? For example, I’ve heard that grapefruit skins and pulp (left over from making juice) can be used in other juice blends and described as either “natural citrus flavor” or “artificial orange(or lemon or lime) flavor”. Similarly, that “artificial vanilla” is just a related bean that’s just bigger and cheaper to grow, but less flavorful. And, that “artificial strawberry” is mostly cherry juice, just the tarter kind made from early or late crops. If I’ve heard wrong and these are actually “artificial”, what exactly are they made of? Saying “chemicals” is like saying “made from matter”, i.e., not a satisfying definition. I guess I’m asking, "If artificial orange, vanilla, and strawberry flavorings are going out of a factory, what’s coming in on the loading dock to make the next batches? Piles of mineral ores? Barrels of crude? Bales of dried seaweed?.. Or what exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Dalou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Dalou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dalou)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2000, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-artifcial-flavors-really-artificial/10006/2 "2000-04-06T06:04:00Z")
“Chemicals” is actually not too far off the mark, from what I understand of this. The TV show Enquiring Minds explained that, say they want to make a ketchup-flavored patoto chips. They don’t acutally add ketchup, but rather the composition of ketchup is broken down into all the different chemicals that make up the flavor. The chip people then make synthetic duplicates of those chemicals, thereby producing – voila! – the artifical taste of ketchup. Or something like that 😉 * * * I’m finished having kids. The next diaper I want in my life is to be my own! ---
**Author:** ![sethdallob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@sethdallob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sethdallob)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2000, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-artifcial-flavors-really-artificial/10006/3 "2000-04-06T07:00:00Z")
Nothing is _really_ artificial when you really break it down…everything is made of some naturally occuring element - so even ketchup flavor is all natural - just probably not in the way you were thinking. Seth ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2000, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-artifcial-flavors-really-artificial/10006/4 "2000-04-06T12:52:00Z")
There’s an entrepreneur who has figured out how to extract an oil from old tires that is chemically the same as the oil that gives lemons their lemony smell. He can’t sell this oil for use in food products because of its source, but he’s making a bundle selling it to air freshener and furniture polish manufacturers. * * * Wrong thinking is punished, right thinking is just as swiftly rewarded. You’ll find it an effective combination. ---
**Author:** ![tshirts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@tshirts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tshirts)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2000, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-artifcial-flavors-really-artificial/10006/5 "2000-04-07T21:55:00Z")
Most of the artificial flavors are made by Dow Chemical in Midland Michigan. Someone near there should take the plant tour and ask (or sneak a peek at the loading dock.) ---
**Author:** ![LabRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/898d66/32.png) [@LabRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LabRat)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2000, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-artifcial-flavors-really-artificial/10006/6 "2000-04-08T04:41:00Z")
T-Shirts, This is totally off topic, but are you a Midlander? I grew up there. I wouldn’t be surprised if they did make them there. That is one gawdawful HUGE chemical plant. For those of you who haven’t seen it, its size is measured in miles. ---
**Author:** ![OrganicMatter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/898d66/32.png) [@OrganicMatter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OrganicMatter)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2000, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-artifcial-flavors-really-artificial/10006/7 "2000-04-08T05:28:00Z")
Along the lines of sethdallob, nothing is really “artificial.” A smell or a taste is often primarily due to the presence of a particular molecule in a complex mixture. The general process is to take a sample of the “natural” substance and to use various techniques (typ. chromotography) to separate the substance into its constituent chemicals. Then one enlists a group of volunteers to smell/taste the constituents. One or more of the smellers/tasters shouts “bingo” and then the sponsors of the experiment determine an economically feasible way in which to provide the smell/taste to the masses. This may involve repeating the separation on a large scale, enlisting the synthetic chemists to find a cheaper way to make the same (or very similar) thing, or researching other “natural” sources of the compound. The common names of many molecules reflect this process (e.g., cinnamic acid from cinnamon.) There are compounds that smell exactly like rancid butter (butyric acid) and sweaty gym socks (valeric acid.) There is even a compound named cadaverine. Having imparted that, I am going to open the refrigerator and squeeze a lemon into a glass of ice, fill with water, add a little sugar, and enjoy. * * * The more things change, the harder it is to finish this sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Feelgood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@Feelgood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feelgood)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2000, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-artifcial-flavors-really-artificial/10006/8 "2000-04-08T14:49:00Z")
Many flavors from fruits come from chemical compounds called “esters”. It is basically the result of the reaction between an carboxylic acid and alcohol. It looks likes this. R-C-0-R | | O where R = some hydrocarbon chain. For instance, banana oil is the result of the combination of pentanol and --shoot, I can’t remember the acid. I think it was also a 5 carbon compound. Anyhow, esters are not stable and will react with water to form the two original reactants. The reaction is reversible, and will reach an equilibrium. Since water is found in all fruit, you can never get really, really banana-y, or really, really pineapple-y. However, these esters are easily manufacturered in labs and I would assume these esters would have to be categorized as “artificial” even though it is the same damn compound found in nature. Although these esters play a large part in giving a piece of fruit its taste, you can never make artifial orange juice that tastes like the real thing. There are just far too many other compounds that give real fruit its taste–which is okay. Bubble gum doesn’t taste like anything I have encountered in nature, but I still like the taste. ---
**Author:** ![Feelgood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@Feelgood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feelgood)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2000, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-artifcial-flavors-really-artificial/10006/9 "2000-04-08T14:50:00Z")
the BB deleted my spaces. The double bond to the oxygen should be on the C, not the R. ---
**Author:** ![ralphredan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f4b2a3/32.png) [@ralphredan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralphredan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2000, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-artifcial-flavors-really-artificial/10006/10 "2000-04-08T15:01:00Z")
You are all working on the wrong half of the equation. I can see how they can break stuff don to basic chemicals. The question is what do they ACTUALLY use to create more. And is the starting point something we recognize (e.g., a similar plant). What you all seem to be saying is like “gasoline has been found to contain carbon atoms and hydrogen and…, so it is therefore made in the lab from carbon powder and cylinders of hydrogen…” NO. It’s made from the similar naturally-occuring stuff called crude oil. Similarly, is grapefruit rind really used as “artificial orange” or not? ---
**Author:** ![Feelgood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@Feelgood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feelgood)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2000, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-artifcial-flavors-really-artificial/10006/11 "2000-04-08T15:40:00Z")
Well. To make those esters, they need a alcohols and carboxylic acids. Ethanol can be obtained by fermenting stuff. Methanol can be made by oxidizing natural gas (energy intensive). But most of these esters involved heavier chain molecules. I guess the ultimate source of most of the chemicals will come from the cheapest source for these—refined crude oil. Does. Does that answer your question. ---
**Author:** ![Feelgood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@Feelgood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feelgood)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2000, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-artifcial-flavors-really-artificial/10006/12 "2000-04-08T15:46:00Z")
Also–it is cheaper to buy a bottle of A and a bottle of B, react them, and create and an ester than to obtain them from nature in many cases. The reason is the unstability of esters in water I mentioned above. If you can react A and B in the abscense of water, you will get a pure ester. And you don’t need a whole lot of it to obtain the desired result. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2000, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-artifcial-flavors-really-artificial/10006/13 "2000-04-08T16:23:00Z")
The banana stuff is amyl acetate. That’s the one ester I can remember off the top of my head. A note about it. I was once in a community theatre production in which we had to glue on fake beards with spirit gum. Some fool said that amyl acetate was good for taking off spirit gum. Don’t believe it. It’s good for making your already irritated face sting like hell and making you smell like a bunch of overripe bananas on top of it. ---
**Author:** ![Feelgood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@Feelgood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feelgood)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2000, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-artifcial-flavors-really-artificial/10006/14 "2000-04-10T00:24:00Z")
Speaking of which, here is a list some of the specific esters in fruit that give it its specific taste and smell (notice how a lot of these esters are volatile organic solvents–which make sense, fruit wants to “smell” good too). Of course, this sight says they MUST be bad for us, ergo, fruit is bad for us. [http://www.marysherbs.com/icecream.htm](http://www.marysherbs.com/icecream.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Harvey\_Wilson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/48db29/32.png) [@Harvey\_Wilson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harvey_Wilson)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2000, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-artifcial-flavors-really-artificial/10006/15 "2000-04-10T01:43:00Z")
Artificial flavour means it tastes nothing like X but we’re gonna call it X flavoured anyway.