# Are Atheists a protected group? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 10, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281 "2015-04-10T00:43:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dee\_Troit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dee\_Troit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dee_Troit)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281/21 "2015-04-10T14:45:00Z")
Originally Posted by Cole33 View Post " try certain religions in jail dee troitd, I advise against post in general to that. Also its a little trollish question that’s fuckin lame because you want an answer, make up your own mind. Your religion gives no fucks to anyone on this board. find a place to post your lame question. " Cole- Where the fuck did that come from? I made up my mind on religion a long time ago. And I sure wasn’t asking you to help me. Perhaps I should have explained my question further in the OP. I’ve been searching for this answer ever since Indiana first made the news. As any one whose been on the planet these last few weeks knows, there has been an overload of perspective, news, and commentary on RFRA. Every piece includes a reference to the GLBT community, as well it should. But I could not find anything about atheists. Goggling produced a few court decisions, and the Madison Wisconsin decree. As for – Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employers with at least \*\*15 \*\*employees,… Thanks for the replies every body, but I’m still not seeing where RFRA could not be used as a defense to discriminate against atheists. Or where atheists (one of the most distrusted/disliked groups in the US) are a fully protected class in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281/22 "2015-04-10T14:52:37Z")
RFRAs are a relatively new phenomenon, and their limits have not yet been firmly resolved by the courts. However, religious freedom must always yield to “compelling interests” of the government, which have been held to include prohibiting discrimination based on suspect classifications and free exercise for 50+ years. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281/23 "2015-04-10T15:24:56Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Federal district court rulings are binding only on that district court. I don’t think that’s correct. They are certainly not binding, even as to the judge who made them. “Binding” usually means that the court is obligated to follow the stated legal rule in new cases or be categorically reversed for not doing so. In this sense, a court of appeals judgment is binding on its inferior district courts–there is no room for discretion if the higher court has spoken on the legal issue. District court decisions are _stare decisis_ for the judge who made them, meaning various rule of law principles counsel for sticking to that rule in future cases, but the judge is free to decide that her previous decision was erroneous and chart a new course in new cases. And they aren’t even _stare decisis_ as to other judges in that district. Other judges in the district are free to disagree with that district judge. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281/24 "2015-04-10T15:43:05Z")
Hmm. I had relied on [this](http://ia601407.us.archive.org/3/items/gov.uscourts.ohsd.117364/gov.uscourts.ohsd.117364.117.0.pdf) decision, but I see other federal district courts (and circuits) have taken a more expansive view. > [@](#): > > In the absence of supervening case authority from the Supreme Court or the Court of Appeals, this Court is bound, under the doctrine of stare decisis, to follow decisions of its own judges. United States v. Hirschhorn, 21 F.2d 758 (S.D.N.Y. 1927); Henry Campbell Black, The Law of Judicial Precedents, §104 (1912). Thus Evans-Marshall is binding precedent on this point. I would characterize _stare decisis_ as a firmer rule than you do, but I suppose binding is too strong. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281/25 "2015-04-10T15:48:32Z")
Interesting decision. I do think it’s pretty clear that the decisions are not binding in the technical sense, but maybe there is room for argument over whether they are _stare decisis_ as to other DJs in that district. I know I have read many opinions in which DJs disagree with other DJs on a legal principle without doing a _stare decisis_ analysis, but maybe they are doing it wrong. I imagine it doesn’t get litigated much since the COA is obviously just answering the legal question _de novo._ ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281/26 "2015-04-10T15:49:05Z")
I have to say, a question about religion from a poster named **De- Tr—** caused me to do a serious double-take. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281/27 "2015-04-10T15:53:30Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > Theism/Atheism is about belief. A theist believes there is a god, an atheist lacks this belief. > > Gnosticism/Agnosticism is about knowledge. A gnostic believes they can know for sure that god exists, an agnostic lacks this belief. > > You can believe that god exists, but not be absolutely certain, and be an agnostic theist. > You can not believe that exists, but not be absolutely certain, and be an agnostic atheist. > > Your ‘pure atheism’ is gnostic atheism. And it’s still not a religion. Prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281/28 "2015-04-10T17:02:50Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Prove it. Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281/29 "2015-04-10T18:18:01Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Seriously? Not substantive enough. Would you care to elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281/30 "2015-04-10T18:45:07Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Not substantive enough. Would you care to elaborate? What, you don’t have access to a dictionary? Your education is not my responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Dee\_Troit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dee\_Troit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dee_Troit)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281/31 "2015-04-10T18:47:04Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I have to say, a question about religion from a poster named **De- Tr—** caused me to do a serious double-take. 😛 Actually, my question has nothing to do about religion. It’s about how laws affect a particular class of people (atheists). A class that I’m having difficulty finding proof of their protected status. It does not seem universal, not unlike gay folk. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281/32 "2015-04-10T19:03:13Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > What, you don’t have access to a dictionary? Your education is not my responsibility. Should I report this post, or would you like to reconsider your tone? ---
**Author:** ![Dee\_Troit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dee\_Troit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dee_Troit)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281/33 "2015-04-10T19:14:24Z")
To paraphrase an other atheist- “Calling atheism a religion or belief is like calling abstinence from sex a type of sex” ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281/34 "2015-04-10T19:18:15Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Should I report this post, or would you like to reconsider your tone? I don’t think my tone needs reconsidering. My post didn’t consist of opinion or obscure fact, it contained easily verifiable definitions that anyone could [look up on google](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=atheism+agnosticism) with a minimum of effort. This isn’t the first time the information in my post has been seen on this board, nor do I think it will be the last. You asked me to prove word definitions, and since ‘Seriously?’ was already covered I felt the need to expand on it a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281/35 "2015-04-10T19:42:59Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > But not being religious isn’t the same thing being an atheist. Not being religious is the definition of an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![misling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ab097/32.png) [@misling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misling)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281/36 "2015-04-10T20:09:22Z")
No, “believing there is not any god” is the definition of atheist. It has nothing to do with whether or not you have a religion. There are religions that do not require a belief in a god. There are persons who believe in a god but do not subscribe to any religion. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281/37 "2015-04-10T20:25:59Z")
> [@Dee\_Troit](#): > > To paraphrase an other atheist- > “Calling atheism a religion or belief is like calling abstinence from sex a type of sex” I prefer “Calling atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.” ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281/38 "2015-04-10T20:41:17Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I prefer “Calling atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.” But consider that in this case the issue is whether atheists are a protected type of religion. So an analogy would be a hypothetical law that says that you cannot discriminate among hair colors. It wouldn’t be unreasonable to consider baldness a hair color for the purpose of this law. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281/39 "2015-04-10T20:49:41Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > But consider that in this case the issue is whether atheists are a protected type of religion. No-I believe the issue is whether atheists are a protected _group_, the same as those who are religionists, not whether they _are_ religionists. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281/40 "2015-04-10T20:50:13Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Not substantive enough. Would you care to elaborate? Well, that is what the words mean technically. In common lingo, I find that “agnostic” generally refers to people who don’t believe in god but either don’t care or leave the possibility open because, well, as humans we can never really know for sure. You can really get into splitting hairs here. I consider myself both atheist and agnostic. I don’t believe in a higher power, but I don’t know for sure there isn’t one. I can be wrong about that. For most people, in my experience, “agnostic” covers that position. But you can be agnostic and believe in a god, too. See: agnostic theism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-a-protected-group/717281.md?page=3)