# Are atheists on the rise, or just more vocal?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-on-the-rise-or-just-more-vocal/604566>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [November 30, 2011, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-on-the-rise-or-just-more-vocal/604566 "2011-11-30T15:46:02Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 2\
**Page:** 3

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**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\
**Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-on-the-rise-or-just-more-vocal/604566/41 "2011-12-01T22:42:49Z")

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> [@Voyager](#):
>
> Here’s the thing - my theory is that we decide good versus evil atheistically, in other words based on some ethical thinking and some built-in morality and some training. Once religious people do that they find support for whatever they decided in their religious texts. To stay with homosexuality, I’ve seen people find support for gay rights in the Bible and other people find support for oppression in the Bible.  
> The problem comes when those without a good ethical argument for their position push it anyway because God said so. They can do this when appealing to voters, like in the Prop 8 campaign. When arguing in the courts, however, they cannot, and have to use science and logic, and I think it is pretty well agreed that the pro-Prop 8 forces got their asses handed to them when they tried this.
> 
> It is quite similar to court cases on Creationism. When Creationists run for school boards and the like, they can support their position with God said it, I believe it, and anyone who disputes the Bible is a heathen and an atheist. When they go to court they need to demonstrate that creationism rises to the level of something that can be taught in science class, and they fail every time.

So the problem with believing in good and evil is that it causes you to be evil? Isn’t that premise internally paradoxical since you have to believe in evil at some stage or perspective anyway? I don’t think the problem is believing some things are good or bad it’s not doing it well, not taking into account how things effect people, evidence and science being omited from morality is what allows abstract ideas to create evil. If we don’t care about anything I don’t trust us any more than the bible beaters do.

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**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\
**Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-on-the-rise-or-just-more-vocal/604566/42 "2011-12-01T22:55:30Z")

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> [@Untoward\_Parable](#):
>
> If you believe that religion hampers humanity the only reason not to try to convert people is fear or apathy.

I believe that religion hampers humanity, but I don’t believe that there is much I can do to convert anyone to atheism.

I am openly atheist, and I try to be a good person, which hopefully shows by example that morality is not dependent on religion. I try to answer questions about my lack of faith honestly and have respectful discussions about atheism and religion.

I don’t do any of those things because I think I will convert anyone, and I don’t think that I’m likely to do so. But I can’t think of anything else that would, either.

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