# Are atheists who aren’t materialists truly atheists? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2026, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197 "2026-05-19T00:20:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2026, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197/181 "2026-06-20T19:13:39Z")
Why do you think all that? You can be an atheist and believe in leprechauns or trolls, nothing contradictory about that. Per definition. Saints, leprechauns, ghosts and trolls aren’t gods. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2026, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197/182 "2026-06-20T19:18:36Z")
But you cannot believe Saints interact with God. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2026, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197/183 "2026-06-20T19:19:23Z")
That’s true, but you can think someone is a saint without believing in any god. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2026, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197/184 "2026-06-20T19:20:54Z")
Technically, yes, if sainthood does not depend on the existence of God. But empirically? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2026, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197/185 "2026-06-20T19:23:11Z")
See, I’m as much of an atheist as they come by, but I think that Harry Belafonte was a saint (first person that came to mind). I don’t know what his spiritual believes were, but I think the things he did and stood for made him one, in a secular sense. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2026, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197/186 "2026-06-20T19:25:32Z")
Arguably that is a different type of saint, with a lowercase ‘s’. To my point, you don’t pray to Harry Belafonte for earthly intervention, do you? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2026, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197/187 "2026-06-20T19:26:57Z")
No, of course I don’t, and you’re right that this is a matter of definitions and semantics. So I drop it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2026, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197/188 "2026-06-20T19:41:36Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Saints, leprechauns, ghosts and trolls aren’t gods. A Shinto worshiper would call all of those things, as well as what you and I would call gods, by the same word: _Kami_. I myself would call them lesser gods - supernatural beings who interact with humans in some fashion. And anthropology backs me up: every god humanity believes in probably started as a local nature spirit or a beloved ancestor, with their story growing and evolving over the centuries. Trying to cordon off the “gods” section of the supernatural world is futile; it’s _all_ religion, in one form or another. It’s all belief in something that can’t be proven to exist. The details are irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2026, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197/189 "2026-06-20T20:11:31Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Do you expect an athiest to still believe ancestor spirits exist, can receive offerings, and can influence events? Consider That’s certainly possible. The atheist would just have to believe that the ancestor spirits could intervene directly, instead of by influencing some god. They could influence events when they were alive, after all. If they did still exist after death, why couldn’t they continue to do so? (In some senses, of course they do. Lots of people have acted either in agreement with or because of disagreement with the memory of what a parent or grandparent would have said about something.), ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2026, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197/190 "2026-06-20T23:22:59Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > But you cannot believe Saints interact with God. In theory you could have someone who believed that saints interacted with “God”, but that “God” wasn’t a real god but something else. “God isn’t _actually_ a god, he’s a parasitic alien worm that possesses people and flies around in a pyramid shaped spaceship. We’re gonna blow him up with some C4.” ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2026, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197/191 "2026-06-21T10:21:00Z")
Obviously, an atheist wouldn’t believe that saints intercede with God because an atheist has no belief in any gods. The rest of your question boils down to “can atheists believe in ghosts”, and sure, why not. > [@Max\_S](#): > > Will an atheist burn joss paper so that an ancestor spirit will intercede with the gods in the Court of Heaven on the atheist’s behalf? I’m sure lots of atheists follow lots of traditional practices. Atheist Jews I know still had a bris. But, obviously, the atheist in your example isn’t asking an ancestor spirit to intercede with gods that they have no belief in. So, can atheists follow traditional practices? Sure, why not? Can atheists believe in ghosts (saints, ancestor spirits, whatever)? Sure, why not? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2026, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197/192 "2026-06-21T10:25:31Z")
A good example of this is that atheists will often say “Oh God!” or “Jesus Christ!” – it’s purely cultural osmosis rather than indication of sincere belief. They’re basically words we say in certain situations. An atheistic Jew or even Christian who believe those identities or belief systems have more to offer than just theistic beliefs can consider themselves to be culturally Jewish or Christian or any other religious group, though the latter is pretty rare and the former much more common for complex sociological/historical reasons, but they’re both logically consistent. Almost no one would call themselves a Christian atheist, but there are plenty of (silent) atheists that participate in Christian culture and even go to church to be part of the community. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2026, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197/193 "2026-06-21T14:15:11Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I’m sure lots of atheists follow lots of traditional practices. I celebrated Christmas back when there was enough of my family alive and nearby for it to be practical; not because I bought any of the mythology, but just because it was an excuse to get together with the family, exchange gifts, Christmas dinner and so on. So did my atheist aunt. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2026, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197/194 "2026-06-21T14:24:26Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > just because it was an excuse to get together with the family, exchange gifts, Christmas dinner and so on My parents were godless commies who took their atheism seriously. But they never did a hard push of any of their beliefs on us kids. Not only did we do Christmas and Thanksgiving, we did Easter - chocolate bunnies, colored eggs and big family meals. Because they wanted us to enjoy the normality of modern American cultural life while growing up. All of us ended up as easy-going liberal atheists (but not commies 😉). Years later I had a friend who had been brought up in a traditional religious household and then rebelled as an adult to become a very militant atheist. A dedicated attender of Chinese restaurants on Christmas, he was appalled my very atheist family always did traditional Christmas dinners. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2026, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197/195 "2026-06-21T17:48:56Z")
My family’s holidays these days include people whose heritage is from at least three religious traditions; some of whom are atheists, some of whom are devout, some of whom are somewhere in the middle. We’re celebrating various manifestations of love, joy, and connectedness. All of which, in our opinions, hold despite differences. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2026, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197/196 "2026-06-22T00:15:19Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Not only did we do Christmas and Thanksgiving, we did Easter - chocolate bunnies, colored eggs and big family meals. Because they wanted us to enjoy the normality of modern American cultural life while growing up. We did Easter and Thanksgiving too. I was pretty late in my teens before it actually connected with me that Easter _was,_ technically a religious holiday instead of an excuse for Easter egg hunts, chocolate rabbits and baskets of assorted candy & knickknacks. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2026, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197/197 "2026-06-22T15:06:51Z")
Me three. I was probably 12 when I noticed Easter had a religious component. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2026, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197/198 "2026-06-22T15:36:32Z")
Lol, i was raised Jewish, but my mother hid chocolate eggs for us to find on Easter Sunday. We never did anything religious for Easter, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2026, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197/199 "2026-06-23T00:38:24Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > We’re celebrating various manifestations of love, joy, and connectedness. All of which, in our opinions, hold despite differences. My Mom used to get all bent out of shape because I celebrate Christmas and I’m an atheist. Bitch, please. Do you know how much of Christmas was culturally appropriated from other religious practices? We celebrate a secular holiday. Sometimes my son asks me why this or that about Christmas. I try to explain Christianity to him, it makes no sense to him (because it doesn’t make sense) and on we go. (“So this guy Jesus that lived two thousand years ago, some people believe he is God.” “Why?” “Because of… feelings. Er, well, faith. Some people believe in things that don’t have concrete proof.” “Why?” “Have I mentioned feelings?” Silence. “How did he die?” “Um. Badly.”) ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2026, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197/200 "2026-06-23T01:25:14Z")
**Moderating:** The sidetrack on how many posters have enjoyed largely/completely secular versions of ostensibly religious holidays is lovely, but is a distraction from the OP. I think we have sufficient examples of @RitterSport’s and other assertations that atheists can easily follow traditional and cultural significant events without any actual belief, and more become a hijack. No warnings or serious concerns, but let’s get the debate back on track. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-atheists-who-aren-t-materialists-truly-atheists/1030197.md?page=11)