# Are Austrians still considered to be Germans? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 6, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-austrians-still-considered-to-be-germans/621062 "2012-05-06T13:20:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 109
**Author:** ![GermanicPride](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7bcc69/32.png) [@GermanicPride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GermanicPride)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-austrians-still-considered-to-be-germans/621062/109 "2012-05-08T06:56:06Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, actually, it’s not denial to say “only” 1.5 million were killed at Auschwitz. Auschwitz is notable for the industrial scale of its operation, a veritable factory of death, but the other 4-5 million murders of Jews were more localized, typically by Germans marching into a town and, with the aid of resident collaborators, herding the Jews into a nearby forested area or gully and shooting them. > > I don’t know what this means. I merely pointed out that your premise, true or not, is of debatable significance. I don’t see how it is seen as denying, I do agree the Holocaust happened just not till the extent of what is told, many things don’t add up, there is no traces of gas, many survivors have been exposed as frauds, the figures have been dropped incredibly and to top it all of if it’s such a historical fact why can nobody question it without being jailed? Why should you go to jail for denying a historical ‘fact’…you are not invited to open the package and just accept what is told…makes no sense at all, and no if you say the 4-5 million of other Jews then that would mean the original figure was 9 million it wasn’t it was 6 million and they lowered the number from 4 million (Auschwitz only) to 1.5 million so minus the 2.5 million you then only have 3.5 million altogether - and the funny thing is as well is that the original 6 million figure has been used prior to the Holocaust and it comes from the Soviets. > [@Pitchmeister](#): > > Even if I believe 1% of what I learned about the Holocaust, it still stands out as one of the most horrific events in all of human history. Don’t complain you’re being labelled a Holocaust denier, because you are. > > Aaaaand were done here. > > It is quite telling that googling this phrase gives you hits to [nowhiteguilt.com](http://nowhiteguilt.com) and [stormfront.com](http://stormfront.com) on the first page of results - I’m not going to be clicking these links, though. I shouldn’t be labelled a denier for something that is a fact, it was lowered. It wasn’t one of the worst at all, what about Stalin…Pol Pot…Jews to the Palestinians and so on and so on… The quote is used a lot even click the “book” section on Google… JFK did say that - many other people quoted Hitler as a good man, history is written by the winners. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Would you care to elaborate? Or indeed address any of the issues that I touched on? > > I am beginning to doubt that you are German yourself. I suspect that most Germans would be able to pull this kind of thing off with a little more semblance of rationality. I never said I was German myself, Germanic and German are two different things… Germans are Germanic but not all Germanic peoples are Germans, capiche? I said simply; of German ancestry, of the German people…it is not exclusive to the country Germany as we call it now. > [@Tamerlane](#): > > _Yeahhhh_… > > …well… > > …huh. > > I guess we are done here. …? :o > [@Pitchmeister](#): > > I most certainly hope not - we don’t want him! It’s probably some deluded White Power thing, and if Hitler was so awesome and German, wouldn’t you want to be German as well? > > Well, the ones that don’t even care, maybe, but I can’t speak too well about the mental capabilities of those that do… See how you’re now trying to be all funny and sarcastic…stay on the topic about Austrians being Germans not political affiliation or just Hitler. > [@Donnerwetter](#): > > There was a poll conducted in Austria in 2008 (the 70th anniversary of the “Anschluss”) which asked whether people thought that Austria is a distinct nation. > > 82 % said yes, 7 % said no. > > When the same question was asked in 1956, the result was: > > 49 % yes, 47 % no > > (Source: The leading Austrian newspaper “Der Standard”: [derStandard.at](http://derstandard.at/3261105) ) I did say this, since the end of WW2 the Austrians have quite easily denied their German roots and deny their wanting for the Anschluss. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, there you go. The Austrians themselves think they’re distinct, and barring the emergence of some other authority to say otherwise, or to offer up a sufficiently generous definition of “distinct”, I guess that’s that. Ethnicity doesn’t change - do you understand what an ethnic group is? Austrians share a common ancestry with the Germans of Germany, same language, same culture (especially in Bavaria and other Southern Germany parts) etc etc. > [@Donnerwetter](#): > > It is noteworthy, though, that this notion of an Austrian nation only evolved as time went by. The article points out that the official name of the country from 1918 until 1919 (i. e. immediately after WW I and the breakup of the Austro-Hungarian empire) was indeed “Deutschösterreich” (German Austria). > > Article 2 of the first constitution of Austria (in 1918) read: “German Austria is part of the German Republic”. > > At the time (after WW I and the collapse of the monarchies), there was a general feeling that “German Austria” should be part of a greater democratic German state. However, this was specifically prohibited by the treaties of Versailles and St. Germain. > > The rest is history. Exactly…why would a rump-state label itself that if they didn’t see themselves as Germans and want to be part of Germany? 😉 > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Can someone explain why it matters whether Austrians are “ethnic Germans” or not? If we all agree that they are, what comes next? Anschluss 2.0? I think the only “schluss-ing” we’re going to see in that region is in the Alps during the winter. > > Really. Who fucking cares? Are the Walloons ethnically French? Are the Flemish ethnically Dutch? Are the Moldovans ethnically Rumanian? Are the Sicilians ethnically Italian? Are the Catalonians ethnically Spanish? Nobody mentions a second Anschluss, quit putting words in my mouth you moron. Do you have to swear to get your point across? I pity you. :smack: > [@Pitchmeister](#): > > **John Mace** , I believe you’re fighting the wrong person here - **Donnerwetter** never said anything about Anschluss 2.0 or how Austrians are really Germans, in fact, he provided the cite that apparently finally made our friend **GermanicPride** shut up. I work, I don’t sit on the computer all day… > [@Dissonance](#): > > I’ll just let these two gems of yours speak for themselves. Oh, and your comment in your other thread "All the other rubbish myths, rumours about him[Hitler]. > > Your claim of 4.5 million being lowered to 1.5 million is bullshit, and it is a [well known Holocaust denier gambit](http://www.nizkor.org/features/denial-of-science/four-million-01.html). > > Over two weeks after the Germans did, and to carry out a secret partition agreed to with Germany before the German invasion. > > So if the Danzig Corridor was all he was interested in, why didn’t he just take that? Why was the German occupied half incorporated into the Greater German Reich? Considering Hitler’s history of breaking treaties, pacts, and agreements left and right, the broken record of ‘this being his last demand’ and what happened to Czechoslovakia, as well as everything he’d written in Mein Kampf and all of his speeches calling for lebensraum only an idiot would think he was only interested in a tiny part of Poland to redress Germany’s grievances. > > I think I’ll end on this quote of yours for your crocodile tears at being called out as a Holocaust denier: It’s not Holocaust denial at all - the people done this themselves at Auschwitz and the same as the gas chamber in Auschwitz is fake which is re-constructed, why shouldn’t you be allowed to have an open mind and decide for yourself the truth…without being automatically accused of being anti-Semitic and a Holocaust denier, these words are made up words… grow up. That part of Germany was unfairly given to the Poles after the end of WW1 he had every right to want it back, they wouldn’t let him - the innocent Germans were also getting massacred in Danzig, wouldn’t you want to protect your people? The living space for the German people was a Greater Germanic Reich and eventually into Eastern Europe yes but he did not want war with Britain or France, he was just as much cause to blame for WW2 than any other leader of that time. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > Ooooh, do we have a good Denier thread on our hands? > Shredding Creationist and Truther claims gets old. > > I’d suggest that the OP start a new thread titled “Hitler was misunderstood.” His central theory could be that, if Hitler won, then massive, systemic, factory-style genocide of 11 million human beings wasn’t evil. And it didn’t happen anyways, so there. So because I state a fact that the number was lowered I am now all of a sudden a denier…great! Hitler is misunderstood, he was a great leader and a good man. Stalin and the commies have caused more genocide than Hitler and National Socialism. Hitler didn’t even order the deaths of Jews… there is not one single document written or signed by Hitler ordering any deaths to Jews, prove me wrong. > [@Dissonance](#): > > Even more telling if you check the quote is the part of the quote that he omitted. I wonder why he didn’t want to include what was inbetween “figures who ever lived… he had a mystery.” I did… 😕 > [@Alessan](#): > > I feel sorry for Holocaust deniers. Here there was this thing that happened that as far as they’re concerned was a great thing, a \*terrific \*thing, and instead of singing its glories to the world, they have to bend over backward denying it even existed! It’s sad, kind of. How is it automatically Holocaust denial to state that the numbers in Auschwitz was lowered? How can you take away 2.5 million and still keep the overall 6 million figure? > [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > What the hell, here’s the whole quote (from Wikiquotes). Omitted portion bolded and italicized: > > He’s posted in the thread, but then left again. I’ll take > > 1. Never has the guts to return > > If he did come back, I’d pick > > 1. May 12 2012 I have a job… I don’t sit on here constantly checking for replies, I will do in my own time like I am now. > [@Princhester](#): > > You call yourself “GermanicPride” and German-ness means so much to you that you start threads on message boards about it but you can’t actually say with any specificity what being German even means, can you? All you can do is point to vague concepts like “heritage” and “ethnicity”. I ask you to point to simple objective factors that would allow me to tell if someone was German. I even give you examples of the sort of factors you could reference. You can’t do it. The Germans are not exclusive to the country Germany, a German is someone is of German ethnicity and considers himself German, is a dog born in a stable a horse? Not all Germans look the same you know this, but as long as you are from an ethnic German family - you are German. > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Yes, I personally consider Austrians (along with the Swiss and other ethnic Germans) to be part of the German _ethnicity_ and perhaps _nation_ although not the German _state_. At any rate, if Germany and Austria opted for Anschuluss 2.0, what would be the problem? The Anschluss of 1938 was only opposed by most Austrians because it would result in a takeover by the Nazis, up until after World War II, most Austrians wanted a Grossdeutschland with them in. > > Similarly descendents of Englishmen and those largely assimilated as “Anglos” here, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Rhodesia etc. are of the English ethnicity. In 1938 the Anschluss wasn’t opposed by most Austrians, 99.73% of the Austrians voted for it. Even in 1918 the Republic of German-Austria (Republik Deutschösterreich) seen people voting to be part of Germany… it was just forbid. > [@Enginerd](#): > > That’s cultural. It doesn’t change my ethnicity a whit. Culture is a part of ethnicity. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Why? What is German ethnicity? What are the objective factors of determining (German) ethnicity? How is it different from nationhood, citizenship, residence, and linguistic groupings? > > And so what? > > Are you sure about that? What about African-Americans? What ethnicity are they? Being of German heritage is being of German ethnicity…is this some sort of windows licker question? Citizenship you can change…that is where you can rightfully be a citizen of that country. Residence…is where you can say. Linguistic is to do with ethnicity as well. > [@sisu](#): > > Do they have blond hair and blue eyes like all good ethnically pure Germans? > > Germanicpride is silly. You are silly for even saying that…been listening to too much anti-Nazi propaganda eh? Anyways, Hitler had blue eyes so 😉 Grow up. --- _[View the full topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-austrians-still-considered-to-be-germans/621062)._