# Are Baretta and Luger hand-guns the same thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 12, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474 "2018-08-12T15:45:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474/21 "2018-08-12T19:00:09Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > I’d chalk it up to reporter error. To my mind, chambering for the 9 aside, they are nothing alike and could not be mistakenly identified as such. No, it’s the official written decision of the QB judge, referring to it as a Luger. Not a reporting error. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474/22 "2018-08-12T19:01:46Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Stuffed in a waistband? That’s incredibly stupid. You will have noticed that I keep referring to this guy as “the deceased”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474/23 "2018-08-12T19:12:06Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Don’t add a picture without knowing for certain what it means. They make several .308 rifles so it is difficult to know. HK417 is the current main output. This one dates to the early 80s, so likely not the current output. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474/24 "2018-08-12T20:42:01Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > You will have noticed that I keep referring to this guy as “the deceased”. 😃 You can still get a Darwin award if you shoot your wang off. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > This one dates to the early 80s, so likely not the current output. Thanks. Then, presumably a civilian rifle, look into SL7/HK770, G3/HK41. _Maybe_ SR9, I think that was 1990. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474/25 "2018-08-12T21:51:01Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > As it happens, they do fire the same round, 9x19mm also known as 9mm Parabellum. Another name for 9mm Parabellum, is in fact, 9mm Luger. It’s named after the inventor of the round, Georg Luger. This designation for the 9x19 cartridge is used by several official firearms and ammunition associations. It is possible that whomever referred to the gun as a Luger was confusing it with the type of ammunition that was used. The most common Berettas are chambered in 9mm Luger. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474/26 "2018-08-12T21:55:42Z")
It’s a **Canadian** judge, so it’s pretty good odds he’s never _seen_ a handgun in his life, much less been schooled in the nomenclature. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474/27 "2018-08-13T02:32:43Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The wiki page on Beretta 92 has a picture identified as a [Beretta 92 FS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_92). Is it accurate? Yes. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Related question: the deceased is referred to as having a “Heckler & Koch .308 semi-automatic rifle”. > > I would like to add a picture to the wiki article on this event, but knowing how precise gun-owners are about technical issues, I want to use a correct picture. Would you share a link to the incident? ---
**Author:** ![Sloe\_Moe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sloe\_Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sloe_Moe)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474/28 "2018-08-13T02:48:34Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > 😕 > > As to the size of the pistol, both judges refer to it as the deceased carrying it in his waistband. That doesn’t sound comfortable for a large pistol? I detect some disdain for this type of carry. It is a very real and often necessary means to conceal and carry a handgun. But there are handguns that are better at being “belly guns.” A gun with a long barrel is actually better since the overall length of the weapon makes sure it is (don’t laugh) snagging onto something, besides the tension of one’s belly fat against your belt. Conversely, a snubby revolver or a small automatic has this embarrassing tendency to slip down from the belt and wound its way down your pant leg. ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474/29 "2018-08-13T03:03:46Z")
Some folks carry with no holster. It has some advantages: if you’re not supposed to have a gun you can dump it and there’s no evidence if you get stopped. You don’t have to buy a holster You have to opportunity to shoot yourself if it snags on something. Happened to some football player not too long ago. It can drop down so it falls on the ground. You should carry in a secure holster that covers the trigger. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474/30 "2018-08-13T05:01:00Z")
> [@Sloe\_Moe](#): > > I detect some disdain for this type of carry. No disdain, just curiosity. I’ve only held a pistol in my hands once in my life, so I’m in no position to be snooty and superior. It just seemed like it would be uncomfortable to wear a pistol in your waistband. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474/31 "2018-08-13T09:24:33Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > FWIW, the Beretta pistol that most people likely think of when they think of one, the Model 92, is not a small pistol by any stretch of the imagination. Beretta does make smaller ones of course, like the Pico and Nano. I’d guess that a lot of people like me, who mostly know about handguns from popular culture, might associate Beretta mainly with James Bond’s 418, which is titchy. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474/32 "2018-08-13T10:17:49Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > I’d guess that a lot of people like me, who mostly know about handguns from popular culture, might associate Beretta mainly with James Bond’s 418, which is titchy. It certainly is. As you’d expect for any pistol firing the .25 ACP cartridge. As a relic of popular culture, that Beretta did get replaced by the PPK by the beginning of Dr. No, so he didn’t have it that long. OTOH, the Model 92, as the M9, has been the US armed forces’ service pistol since the early 1980s, with the occasional SIG-Sauer P228 in use as the M11. If you’ve seen a soldier, marine or sailor with a pistol in the last 35 years or so, it’s very likely been an M9. And, just because Stranger was about the only poster to allude to the misspelling in the documents Northern Piper was discussing, here’s the Candyman singing Baretta’s Theme. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HNWhVXcjV8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HNWhVXcjV8) ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474/33 "2018-08-13T11:13:58Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > It certainly is. As you’d expect for any pistol firing the .25 ACP cartridge. As a relic of popular culture, that Beretta did get replaced by the PPK by the beginning of Dr. No, so he didn’t have it that long. Well, some of us still read books, you know ;). He had the Beretta in the first five novels, and it turns up in role-playing games and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474/34 "2018-08-13T14:22:54Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It just seemed like it would be uncomfortable to wear a pistol in your waistband. It is, even in a holster. But if you want to fully conceal a pistol, it is about the only practical way short of wearing a parka. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474/35 "2018-08-13T14:45:03Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > It is, even in a holster. But if you want to fully conceal a pistol, it is about the only practical way short of wearing a parka. > > Stranger IWB carry doesn’t have to be uncomfortable. It is largely a matter of doing a few things right. 1. Buy pants larger to leave room for the gun. 2. Buy a good holster, not a nylon POS from Wally World. Kydex and horsehide are preferred. Shit holsters are excessively thick, don’t support the gun well, and move around on the belt. 3. Buy a good, stiff belt that will support the gun and keep it from shifting. Many of the quality holster makers can supply you with one. Clothing store belts are seldom stiff enough for the purpose. 4. If possible choose a weapon with a flatter profile over more chunky pieces. Length of the gun has less impact on carry comfort than does thickness. If the gun is an issue piece that you must carry, then this isn’t an option. Good carry gear isn’t cheap. You should expect to spend at least a couple hundred dollars for the holster, belt, and perhaps a mag holder. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474/36 "2018-08-13T18:20:06Z")
> [@GaryM](#): > > You have to opportunity to shoot yourself if it snags on something. Happened to some football player not too long ago. Plaxico Burress, unless there are others more recently (there probably are). > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It just seemed like it would be uncomfortable to wear a pistol in your waistband. \*With a \*\*proper \*_holster and belt_, it can be almost unnoticeable except for the weight, and you would eventually get used to that too. > [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > It certainly is. As you’d expect for any pistol firing the .25 ACP cartridge. As a relic of popular culture, that Beretta did get replaced by the PPK by the beginning of Dr. No, so he didn’t have it that long. .25 is still popular in a line of universally shitty Saturday Night Specials. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474/37 "2018-08-14T02:18:19Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > > [@Northern Piper](#): > > > > It just seemed like it would be uncomfortable to wear a pistol in your waistband. > > \*With a \*\*proper \*_holster and belt_, it can be almost unnoticeable except for the weight, and you would eventually get used to that too. That’s different. Not doubting that with the proper equipment, carrying is pretty easy. But here, the deceased didn’t have a belt and holster. He had it tucked into his waistband, between his pants and underwear, as far as I can tell. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474/38 "2018-08-14T02:21:55Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > It’s a **Canadian** judge, so it’s pretty good odds he’s never _seen_ a handgun in his life, much less been schooled in the nomenclature. 😃 Hey, who do think rubber-stamps the occasional massive gun-confiscation drives we have up here??!? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474/39 "2018-08-14T14:33:12Z")
> [@northern piper](#): > > that’s different. Not doubting that with the proper equipment, carrying is pretty easy. > > But here, the deceased didn’t have a belt and holster. He had it tucked into his waistband, between his pants and underwear, as far as i can tell. ​ ⁣ > [@professor moriarty](#): > > it is a dangerous habit to finger loaded firearms in the pocket of one’s dressing-gown. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474/40 "2018-08-14T21:36:33Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > .25 is still popular in a line of universally shitty Saturday Night Specials. Beretta still makes some very high quality .25 pistols. FN still makes the Baby Browning. Taurus makes a .25 that sells well enough that they keep producing it. There are also scads of good quality Colts, Walthers, and other 1st line manufacturer .25’s still in service. Damn few of them ever got shot enough to wear out, I expect. The .25 is alive and well and not just in “Ring of Fire” guns. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-baretta-and-luger-hand-guns-the-same-thing/819474.md?page=3)