# Are bitcoins ever going to be a viable currency? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 30, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196 "2012-08-30T22:11:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196/41 "2012-09-06T01:09:20Z")
> [@thinktank60](#): > > But dont put all your money in Bitcoin. Expect the value to go up and down. > But there is a quite big announcement comming up that should bring stability. I sure as hell hope [this wasn’t the announcement](http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/secret-service-investigating-purported-ransom-of-mitt-romneys-tax-returns/)\*\* thinktank\*\* was expecting. Bitcoins: the currency preferred by extortionists around the world! ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196/42 "2012-11-15T23:04:40Z")
> [@tellyworth](#): > > Unless and until you can use it to buy things that are ordinary, there’s just no compelling reason for most people to give it a second look. Just bumping this thread to note that [WordPress.com now accepts Bitcoin](http://en.blog.wordpress.com/2012/11/15/pay-another-way-bitcoin/) payments. Also [Reddit is considering](http://betabeat.com/2012/11/reddit-considering-accepting-bitcoin-as-payment-for-reddit-gold-subscriptions/) accepting Bitcoin. (disclosure: I worked on the [WordPress.com](http://WordPress.com) Bitcoin project) ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196/43 "2013-03-31T15:59:32Z")
I know its a psuedozombie but…bitcoin prices just skyrocketed over the last few days currently holding around $90.00US each. > **[Bitcoin: How An Unregulated, Decentralized Virtual Currency Just Became A...](https://techcrunch.com/2013/03/28/bitcoin-how-an-unregulated-decentralized-virtual-currency-just-became-a-billion-dollar-market/)** > > Hang around in the tech industry long enough and you or someone you know will be heard saying, "that's so crazy it just might work." Two years ago, if you'd have told me that an open-source, P2P currency would soon be a thriving, billion-dollar... ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196/44 "2013-04-01T00:40:16Z")
I still don’t understand how you can have a partial bitcoin without some central bank. Them being worth more only makes this more important. If you have a central bank, you have regulation. In fact, I know you have regulation, as people are discounting bitcoins mined by botnets. Imagine any other bank saying that this particular dollar (or whatever) isn’t worth anything. Not that it must be returned to its proper owners: there are no proper owners with these bitcoins. They are just invalid. That’s fiat money: the supply is being artificially lowered. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196/45 "2013-04-01T02:55:52Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > It seems a lot of bitcoins are used for illicit and illegal activities. But is there an actual legitimate future for them? What I’d like to see happen is for bitcoins or some other method to convince online services like Paypal that there’s profit in not talking like puritan douchebags. You can hardly turn around on the internet without running into a ToS that treats Michelangelo’s David the same as child pornography. > [@BigT](#): > > In fact, I know you have regulation, as people are discounting bitcoins mined by botnets. Imagine any other bank saying that this particular dollar (or whatever) isn’t worth anything. Not that it must be returned to its proper owners: there are no proper owners with these bitcoins. They are just invalid. That’s fiat money: the supply is being artificially lowered. We already knew bitcoins were fiat money - not because counterfeited bitcoins are not considered valid but because right from the start, they were designed that way. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196/46 "2013-04-01T06:46:30Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > In fact, I know you have regulation, as people are discounting bitcoins mined by botnets. Imagine any other bank saying that this particular dollar (or whatever) isn’t worth anything. Not that it must be returned to its proper owners: there are no proper owners with these bitcoins. They are just invalid. That’s fiat money: the supply is being artificially lowered. This is nonsense. Nobody is discounting bitcoins mined by botnets. Nobody CAN. Nothing in the protocol distinguishes how the coins were mined or priviledges any group of coins over any other. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196/47 "2013-04-01T06:47:49Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > We already knew bitcoins were fiat money - not because counterfeited bitcoins are not considered valid but because right from the start, they were designed that way. Bitcoins cannot be counterfeited. Bitcoins mined by botnets are just as ‘genuine’ as bitcoins mined by my mining rigs. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196/48 "2013-04-01T07:46:56Z")
Bah, triplepost: recent coverage of Bitcoin in the UK: > **[BBC Two - Newsnight, 26/03/2013](https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01rl5n9)** > > Analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Jeremy Paxman. The link will only be valid a couple more days. First 1:10 is the usual intro of what topics are coming up. Bitcoin runs from 35:22 to 44:44 This is a highly regarded programme on the beeb, and Jeremy Paxman does wonders for Bitcoin merely by being the interviewer. He could shitcan it for ten minutes and do more for its public presence than ‘the bitcoin community’ has done over the last year. It helps that it’s preceded by a report on the Cyprus crisis! Both panellists make good points about the pros and cons of Bitcoins. There IS at the moment an elephant in the room - Satoshi Nakamoto, the pseudonymous inventor of Bitcoins. Current estimates are that maybe 30% of all bitcoins that exist are owned by the very early adopters - Nakamoto and maybe a handful of others. If they were to suddenly dump all their BTC for USD that would cause a flash crash. Mitigating this is the idea that people who have amassed a lot of money are usually not going to do stupid things to devalue it. If Nakamoto wants to get rich in USD he’s going to sell the BTC in little drips over time. Of course, he _may_ prefer to be Dr. Evil. But then a second point comes into play. You can cause a crash by selling a vast amount - _once_. You can’t sell it any more once you don’t have it. So, less ‘crash’ and more ‘flash’. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196/49 "2013-04-03T15:55:21Z")
It’s like watching the Tulip bubble, but with real-time quotes! ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196/50 "2013-04-03T19:53:38Z")
I’m having a hard time seeing much of a future for Bitcoin. It seems like it’s still primarily a currency for drug dealers and child pornographers, and I really don’t see much chance of that changing. For any legitimate activity, it’s trying to fill a need that doesn’t exist. Dealing in foreign currency really isn’t that big a problem any more. If I want to buy something from, say, a Canadian company, I’ll pay with my credit card, and Visa or Mastercard handles the currency exchange for me. What would I need a bitcoin for, again? ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196/51 "2013-04-03T20:57:06Z")
I am embarrassed to relate that I have ten bitcoins. I bought them a couple of years ago, during that initial spike in interest in bitcoins in early 2011. Then I moved and forgot about them. I was surprised to read recently that their value had appreciated so much. I’d be happy to sell them, but there’s one tiny little problem. They are stored on an encrypted disk image. And I’ve forgotten the password… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196/52 "2013-04-03T22:55:06Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > I’m having a hard time seeing much of a future for Bitcoin. It seems like it’s still primarily a currency for drug dealers and child pornographers, and I really don’t see much chance of that changing. For any legitimate activity, it’s trying to fill a need that doesn’t exist. As I said, as long as organisations like Paypal and Amazon treat any sort of nudity in art as legitimate grounds to confiscate your money, there’s a place for a currency not run by puritans. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196/53 "2013-04-03T23:07:47Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > As I said, as long as organisations like Paypal and Amazon treat any sort of nudity in art as legitimate grounds to confiscate your money, there’s a place for a currency not run by puritans. All that suggests is that we need non puritanical organizations. Additionally, neither Paypal nor Amazon ‘runs the currency’. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196/54 "2013-04-04T00:35:32Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > I am embarrassed to relate that I have ten bitcoins. I bought them a couple of years ago, during that initial spike in interest in bitcoins in early 2011. Then I moved and forgot about them. I was surprised to read recently that their value had appreciated so much. > > I’d be happy to sell them, but there’s one tiny little problem. They are stored on an encrypted disk image. And I’ve forgotten the password… :smack: Dig for that password, at current price, thats $1300 I just sold the 3 coins I mined over the last month ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196/55 "2013-04-07T17:52:35Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > All that suggests is that we need non puritanical organizations. Or, better still, a currency in which the puritanicality of the transaction processor is _completely effing irrelevant_. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196/56 "2013-04-12T14:26:35Z")
Damn, this is the fastest bubble+collapse that I’ve ever seen. Going up from $13 in January to $35 in March, Bitcoins (Bitcons?) have jumped up since then, peaking a couple of days ago at $266. Like all bubbles, you had the adherents saying “this time, it’s different”, a sharp rise in price that’s unexplainable using basic market economics (or even common sense) and a rush to join the party by people who a week before had never heard the things. Hell, somebody last week bought a Porsche with 300 of the things. Now the market has collapsed, with Bitcoins losing over 70% of their value, currently at $60. Oops… couldn’t see that coming. :rolleyes: Maybe they can use their Bitcoins to buy houses to flip. 😃 [Here’s a presentation](http://www.businessinsider.com/presentation-what-is-bitcoin-2013-3?op=1) as to what Bitcoins actually are, how they’re generated, and what they’re good for. It’s a bit dated in regards to pricing information, but a good read nonetheless. I like the page that asks “What Can You Buy with Bitcoin” which included a “Comprehensive List” with three items: US Dollars, Weed, Alpaca Stocks. Even the smartest of us gets trapped in these things - [here is Isaac Newton’s](http://www.businessinsider.com/isaac-newton-and-the-south-sea-bubble-2013-4) buy and sell history in the South Sea Bubble, which took longer than Bitcoin to appreciate, but collapsed just as suddenly (well, as suddenly as things did in 1720.) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196/57 "2013-04-12T15:20:35Z")
Well, bitcoins are going to go up and down, but the point about Paypal, Amazon and porn is relevant: basically, their prudishness creates a market for bitcoins or something like them. Sooner or later, an alternative scheme will come along that works. I use an alternative currency myself: Linden dollars, which I use to buy stuff on Second Life. Linden dollars are tradable at 250 lindens to $1 US. The in game market has functioned quite smoothly for years. Of course, Linden bucks are controlled by a single corporate entity and thus is very vulnerable to abuse, but my point is simply that for an alternative currency to succeed, all that’s needed is trust in the currency (I dont trust Lindens much, my monthly Linden expenses are about the same as a burger at a fast food restaurant) and good that people want to buy and sell using them … and protection from scammers and crooks. The only thing that bothers me about bitcoins is their inherent deflationary value. Possibly not a good idea. Also, I’m curious … HOW do you convert bitcoins into other currencies, say US dollars? You give someone a bitcoin and hope they’ll put its current dollar value in your paypal account? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196/58 "2013-04-12T15:35:05Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > The only thing that bothers me about bitcoins is their inherent deflationary value. Possibly not a good idea. Also, I’m curious … HOW do you convert bitcoins into other currencies, say US dollars? You give someone a bitcoin and hope they’ll put its current dollar value in your paypal account? A friend of mine sold one on eBay last week. I have no idea how the transaction process works, though. ---
**Author:** ![core\_dump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@core\_dump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/core_dump)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196/59 "2013-04-12T16:33:15Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > HOW do you convert bitcoins into other currencies, say US dollars? You give someone a bitcoin and hope they’ll put its current dollar value in your paypal account? And then hope they don’t do a Paypal chargeback on you a month from now. Yeah, that’s not such a wise plan. There are e-currency exchangers all over. They’ll take a not-so-small fee and give you whatever currency you like: Paypal (risky), LibertyReserve, PerfectMoney, Western Union, or even load up a throwaway debit card for you. It does take a certain amount of trust since there is no escrow. But established sites make far more on being honest than they would screwing a handful of people over. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-bitcoins-ever-going-to-be-a-viable-currency/633196.md?page=2)