# Are blacks being purged from the voting rolls, again? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 21, 2004, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307 "2004-05-21T03:35:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307/1 "2004-05-21T03:35:38Z")
Before the 2000 election, 57,700 voters were purged from the rolls in Florida because they were supposedly convicted felons – convicted in Florida or in some other state. At least 90 percent of them were **not** convicted felons and 54 percent were black or Hispanic. In this recent article from the May 17, 2004 issue of _The Nation_ – [http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040517&s=palast](http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040517&s=palast) – Greg Palast alleges that this purge is happening again, and in fact is encouraged by the terms of the Help America Vote Act. “HAVA not only blesses such purges, it requires all fifty states to implement a similar search-and-destroy mission against vulnerable voters. Specifically, every state must, by the 2004 election, imitate Florida’s system of computerizing voter files. The law then empowers fifty secretaries of state–fifty Katherine Harrises–to purge these lists of ‘suspect’ voters.” Furthermore, if blacks do get to vote their votes are more likely than white voters’ to be discounted as “spoiled ballots” – nationwide, the number of ballots “spoiled” in any county or precinct is directly proportional to its black population. So says Greg Palast. Does anybody say different? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307/2 "2004-05-21T04:56:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Before the 2000 election, 57,700 voters were purged from the rolls in Florida because they were supposedly convicted felons – convicted in Florida or in some other state. At least 90 percent of them were **not** convicted felons and 54 percent were black or Hispanic. Gee, I suppose they didnt notice that almost HALF were WHITE…maybe the lily white disenfranchised should complain about discrimination … oh, wait a sec, it is only black and hispanic that get discriminated against, them whities got what was coming to them… :dubious: Come on, granted the people checking the list for qualifications could be a tad more accurate…but really, isn’t this stretching it a bit…4% difference in numbers doesn’t sound like rampant discrimination to me, just 90% of them not actually being disqualified is simply sloppy work. Maybe you should agitate by demanding better quality assurance on the job instead of some silly 4% difference meaning rank discrimination. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307/3 "2004-05-21T05:21:58Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Maybe you should agitate by demanding better quality assurance on the job instead of some silly 4% difference meaning rank discrimination. :smack: That’s an 8% difference (54 - 46), not 4%. And whether it indicates discrimination or not would depend on the proportion of blacks in the underlying population. If the area were 25% black, and 54% of disqualified voters were black, that would look a lot like discrimination to me. If the population were 54% black, then that’s a bit different. So, what proportion of the Florida population is black or hispanic? ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307/4 "2004-05-21T05:22:27Z")
> [@](#): > > 4% difference in numbers doesn’t sound like rampant discrimination to me well it’s a big difference if the ratio of black to white in that area isn’t 50/50. This is an interesting part of the article > [@](#): > > Edley’s team of Harvard experts discovered that just as in Florida, the number of ballots spoiled was–county by county, precinct by precinct–in direct proportion to the local black voting population. Seems shady to me. ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307/5 "2004-05-21T05:23:28Z")
You know every time I have a point today someone beats me to it. I should just give up. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307/6 "2004-05-21T23:17:44Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > That’s an 8% difference (54 - 46), not 4%. And whether it indicates discrimination or not would depend on the proportion of blacks in the underlying population. If the area were 25% black, and 54% of disqualified voters were black, that would look a lot like discrimination to me. If the population were 54% black, then that’s a bit different. So, what proportion of the Florida population is black or hispanic? According to the Encarta, Florida’s population of 15.9 million in 2000 was 78% white, 14.6% black, 16.8% Hispanic, 1.7% Asian, 0.3% Native American, 0.1% Native Hawaiians and other Pacific Islanders, 5.3% of mixed heritage or not reporting race. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307/7 "2004-05-21T23:28:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > According to the Encarta, Florida’s population of 15.9 million in 2000 was 78% white, 14.6% black, 16.8% Hispanic, 1.7% Asian, 0.3% Native American, 0.1% Native Hawaiians and other Pacific Islanders, 5.3% of mixed heritage or not reporting race. Giving us a grand total of 116.8% No wonder Bush won Florida! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307/8 "2004-05-21T23:32:28Z")
> [@leander](#): > > Giving us a grand total of 116.8% > > No wonder Bush won Florida! 😉 Well, here’s the relevant paragraph from the Encarta article: > [@](#): > > In 2000 whites comprised the largest share of the population, representing 78 percent of the people. Blacks were 14.6 percent of the population, Asians were 1.7 percent, Native Americans were 0.3 percent, Native Hawaiians and other Pacific Islanders were 0.1 percent, and those of mixed heritage or not reporting race were 5.3 percent. Hispanics, who may be of any race, were 16.8 percent of the population. Many of the Hispanics in Florida are Cubans or their descendants who left the island nation before or soon after a revolution there in the late 1950s. Others came during the early 1980s when Cuba temporarily lifted exit restrictions. > © 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Since Hispanics “may be of any race,” that category may include some that are also counted in the white, black, and Native American categories. ---
**Author:** ![Senggum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@Senggum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senggum)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307/9 "2004-05-21T23:41:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Before the 2000 election, 57,700 voters were purged from the rolls in Florida because they were supposedly convicted felons – convicted in Florida or in some other state. At least 90 percent of them were **not** convicted felons and 54 percent were black or Hispanic. Don’t get it! Who and what counties purged these supposedly non-felons from the rolls? Most of the counties where the “supposedly and real felons” reside, I think are controlled by Democrats … :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307/10 "2004-05-21T23:47:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, here’s the relevant paragraph from the Encarta article: > > Since Hispanics “may be of any race,” that category may include some that are also counted in the white, black, and Native American categories. Oh, okay. Well, that makes more sense. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307/11 "2004-05-21T23:48:04Z")
> [@Senggüm](#): > > Don’t get it! Who and what counties purged these supposedly non-felons from the rolls? Most of the counties where the “supposedly and real felons” reside, I think are controlled by Democrats … :rolleyes: But the purging process was not controlled by the locally elected supervisors of elections, it was controlled by the Secretary of State, Katherine Harris. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307/12 "2004-05-21T23:50:31Z")
> [@Senggüm](#): > > Don’t get it! Who and what counties purged these supposedly non-felons from the rolls? Hillsborough and Alachua were predominant, but since it was a statewide purge, all counties were affected to some degree. > [@Senggüm](#): > > Most of the counties where the “supposedly and real felons” reside, I think are controlled by Democrats … :rolleyes: Why else did you think [Katherine Harris and the GOP](http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=27&row=2) purged them? > [@](#): > > People from other states who have arrived in Florida with a felony conviction in their past number “clearly over 50,000 and likely over 100,000,” says criminal demographics expert Jeffrey Manza of Northwestern University. Manza estimates that **80 percent arrive with voting rights intact, which they do not forfeit** by relocating to Florida. > > Nevertheless, **agencies controlled by Harris and Bush ordered county officials to reject attempts by these eligible voters to register,** while, publicly, the governor’s office states that it adheres to court rulings not to obstruct these ex-offenders in the exercise of their civil rights. Further, **with the aid of a Republican-tied database firm,** Harris’s office used sophisticated computer programs to hunt those felons eligible to vote and ordered them thrown off the voter registries. But then, **Senggüm,** I suspect you wouldn’t object to preventing Democrats from exercising their right to vote… ---
**Author:** ![Senggum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@Senggum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senggum)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307/13 "2004-05-21T23:56:49Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > But then, **Senggüm,** I suspect you wouldn’t object to preventing Democrats from exercising their right to vote… Like those those in military service overseas … :rolleyes * * * Like seeing my name in bold. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307/14 "2004-05-22T00:10:40Z")
> [@Senggüm](#): > > Like those those in military service overseas … :rolleyes Was someone suggesting that those those in military service shouldn’t vote? ---
**Author:** ![Senggum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@Senggum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senggum)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307/15 "2004-05-22T00:14:31Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Was someone suggesting that those those in military service shouldn’t vote? No, they just didn’t want to count their votes in Florida, many were blacks! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307/16 "2004-05-22T00:34:52Z")
This thread is getting sidetracked. What happened in Florida in 2000 is just the **background.** What’s done is done. But we have another election coming up. The important question is, is Palast correct that HAVA encourages or even requires the states to purge “suspect” voters from the roles? And if so, how will that affect the outcome of the election (both presidential and congressional)? And is there anything that can be done about it **before** the election? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307/17 "2004-05-22T00:56:40Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > That’s an 8% difference (54 - 46), not 4%. And whether it indicates discrimination or not would depend on the proportion of blacks in the underlying population. If the area were 25% black, and 54% of disqualified voters were black, that would look a lot like discrimination to me. If the population were 54% black, then that’s a bit different. So, what proportion of the Florida population is black or hispanic? Sorry for posting while tired…my math goes to hell in a handbasket when I am tired. Dude, does it even matter? ROUGHLY EQUAL numbers of black and hispanic to white were stricken. How about the more important problem that they fucked up 90% of the records…I will say it again NINETY PERCENT were not prior felons/disqualifiable due to what ever reasons. Come on, who cares what color you are if you get stricken for no cause. How about actually focusing on something other than color like gross imcompetency? I seriously doubt that there is any deep inner racial issue to this. I do see a competency issue. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307/18 "2004-05-22T01:19:29Z")
The NAACP were asleep in Florida; they should have had that stopped befoe the election. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307/19 "2004-05-22T13:47:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Dude, does it even matter? ROUGHLY EQUAL numbers of black and hispanic to white were stricken. How about the more important problem that they fucked up 90% of the records…I will say it again NINETY PERCENT were not prior felons/disqualifiable due to what ever reasons. Dude, your understanding of basic math (or lack thereof) is embarrassing. Blacks + Hispanics comprise, roughly, 31% of the Florida population. Whites are 78% of the population. Their representation on the wrongly stricken list is disproportionate to their representation in the general population. If majority and minority representations were ROUGHLY EQUAL, you’d expect consistent proportions. So it DOES matter! Got it? It’s troubling that anyone was wrongly kept from doing their civic duty. But it’s especially troubling that specific groups appear to be especially vunerable to this error. We’re talking about politics…where race matters. Florida is in the South, a region that has a bad legacy of barring groups from the polls. This is reminiscent of that, and it’s scary. Anyone who can’t see that has their head in the sand. As for the OP, I have no idea if it’s happening again. The cynic in me wouldn’t be surprised if it is. But if my name or the name of a loved one appears on any felony list, keeping us from voting in November, I will be so pissed that I may very well _committ_ a felony. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307/20 "2004-05-22T13:49:04Z")
Sorry. The above quote is from **aruvqan**. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-blacks-being-purged-from-the-voting-rolls-again/246307.md?page=2)