# Are Boston Legal and The Practice set in the same universe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 13, 2006, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537 "2006-08-13T11:04:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537/1 "2006-08-13T11:04:16Z")
I’ve been a big fan of Boston Legal since the Micheal J Fox episodes. Since those aired, I’ve watched all the episodes and developed a deep love for the show and it’s characters. But with Season 2 not coming out on DVD for several months and season 3 being at least a month away, I needed more. So I watched Season 8 of The Practice, which introduced Alan, Denny, Tara and Sally. Now having watched all of the season 8 episodes, I’m confused. In The Practice, Alan is a deeply unethical self-loathing lawyer who gets the job done by any means possible. He bribes, cheats, steals, extorts, seduces and does whatever else he feels is necessary to produce the desired outcome. On Boston Legal, he engages in questionable behavior but nothing so far has led him to being tried before the bar. Boston Legal is obviously a more light-hearted show whereas The Practice was incredibly intense. The stakes seemed much higher for Alan at Young, Berlutti and Frutt versus what he takes on at Crane, Poole and Schmidt. And the tone of the shows seems to be radically different, hence my confusion. There seem to be several key differences between characters and settings in the two shows. On The Practice, CP&S was shown as being totally different, from decor to characters. For example, Denny. In The Practice he actively discourages sexual harassment. He tells Alan it’s done behind closed doors and he refuses to defend a client that he thinks is a sexual deviant. In Boston Legal, Denny himself harasses in the courtroom, conference room and anywhere else there happens to be an attractive associate, partner, client or anyone else in a skirt. Denny was a shrewd but eccentric lawyer on The Practice but has early onset Alzheimers (or mad cow disease if you prefer) on Boston Legal. One of the lawyers on the Practice says that once Denny is in the courtroom “all that plaque on his brian just dissolves” which is not at all the case on BL. Also the office itself is different. By the time of Boston Legal, CP&S has gone through a major renovation that seems to include firing several prominent staff members. Hannah Rose is gone, Mr Billings (Denny’s “handler” and also seemingly a very important partner) is gone and Tara has gone from being a law student to being a full time associate. Sally has escaped from getting fired for smoking and selling pot at work. In fact, she never mentions it and neither does anyone else. On The Practice, there’s no sign of Paul Lewiston, Lori Coulson (Denny’s confidant in the first episode of BL) or Edwin Poole. And the cases CP&S takes are very different from the wacky fun of BL. All of this has led me to conclude that the CP&S of The Practice and the CP&S of Boston Legal are different universes who share similar characters. It reminds me of the Enterprise two parter “In a Mirror Darkly” where we saw the “bad” universe as opposed to the “good” universe we had been watching all along. Except in this case, The Practice is the “bad” universe with the consequences and whatnot while BL is the “good” universe where cases are funny and unique. The question for the jury is, can the two shows be reconciled with one another? Is there anything on BL that supports or contradicts what happened on The Practice? Any opinion is welcome… I love both shows and would like to hear the Dopers views on both. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537/2 "2006-08-13T12:25:03Z")
I’d say they’re set in parallel universes. In both universes, Shore, Crane, Eugene, & Ellenor exist and are lawyers, and in both Shore left Young/Schutt for Crane/Schmidt. But Shore & Crane’s personalities, as you say, are markedly different in the _Boston Legal_ universe, and the world is far more whimsical and silly, and some persons–the Rebecca Demornay character, fex–don’t exist. _Boston Legal_, in other words, takes place in the \ ***Ally McBeal** \* universe. Yes, I know there was an AB/TP crossover. Stop bothering me. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537/3 "2006-08-13T13:39:13Z")
I’d say Boston Legal is just a spinoff, and a great one (I love it, whereas I was never able to sit through an episode of The Practice). Obviously changes will be made when character appear on one show and get spun off into their own show, as different writers may be on board, different budgets may be available, and so forth. The heroic vampire Angel got his own show after appearing in the first three seasons of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and his character went through several changes once he was on his own (including moving from Buffy’s fictional California town of Sunnydale to L.A. for more “grownup” darker adventures). The writers just had more of a chance to develop Angel without sharing time with the Buffy cast, and Shore and Crane on Boston Legal now had a chance to be developed as well without the boring-ass cast of The Practice taking screen time away from them. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537/4 "2006-08-13T16:52:45Z")
The Practice, Ally McBeal, Boston Public, and Boston Legal ate all set in the same fictional Boston. For that matter almost all American TV is an illusion created in the mind of an autistic boy. ---
**Author:** ![Cherry\_Garcia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@Cherry\_Garcia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cherry_Garcia)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537/5 "2006-08-13T20:08:39Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > I It reminds me of the Enterprise two parter “In a Mirror Darkly” where we saw the “bad” universe as opposed to the “good” universe we had been watching all along. Except in this case, The Practice is the “bad” universe with the consequences and whatnot while BL is the “good” universe where cases are funny and unique. [hijack] As a long-time Trekker, I feel obligated to point out the TOS episode, "[Mirror, Mirror](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror%2C_Mirror_%28TOS_episode%29) " which gave rise to all the alternate universe episodes on DS9 and ENT and of course starred 'ol Shat-Face himself. Live long and prosper. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537/6 "2006-08-13T22:18:27Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > I’d say Boston Legal is just a spinoff, and a great one (I love it, whereas I was never able to sit through an episode of The Practice). Obviously changes will be made when character appear on one show and get spun off into their own show, as different writers may be on board, different budgets may be available, and so forth. The heroic vampire Angel got his own show after appearing in the first three seasons of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and his character went through several changes once he was on his own (including moving from Buffy’s fictional California town of Sunnydale to L.A. for more “grownup” darker adventures). The writers just had more of a chance to develop Angel without sharing time with the Buffy cast, and Shore and Crane on Boston Legal now had a chance to be developed as well without the boring-ass cast of The Practice taking screen time away from them. Angel was different circumstances however. His show was established by him deciding to change locales at the end of Buffy season 3, so we never saw him in LA while he was on Buffy. With The Practice to Boston legal, the locale remained the same but most of the players changed in the space of a couple months. The office itself totally changed in layout and style. Also Buffy and Angel’s writers obviously worked hard to maintain inter-series continuity between the shows. Of course they had the advantage of the shows running concurrently for 3 years. I guess what I’m looking for is a reference from Boston Legal that would establish the shows as being connected. Did Alan ever talk about the time he defended his best friend in a murder case? Did the previouslys for the first apprerance of Catherine Piper show her shaking hands with Alan with dog poop on her glove? Something like that, a reference that connects the events. I haven’t noticed any obvious ones myself but since I just finished watching TP season 8, I might have missed them. I also respectfully disagree about the characters being more developed on BL. Although Alan and Denny are much better friends now, I think their characters have regressed a little. For example, when I saw the first Practice episode with Alan I was shocked to see him driving a car. And imagine my surprise when I found out he also has a personal life and a past! Alan doesn’t have a personal life outside of the office on BL. And as for Denny, the mad cow must be taking a toll. On the Practice, he was shrewd and cunning in the courtroom, only fumbling sometimes. On BL, he fumbles his way to greatness, admitting that half the time he doesn’t even know what he’s doing. They’re different characters from who they were when we first saw them. I’d love to hear some theories as to why. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537/7 "2006-08-13T23:07:56Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > I’d love to hear some theories as to why. Not only is it very different from TP, Alan Shore of Season 1 and Season 2 are almost two different people. My WAG: Dave Kelley got to do a spin off with the very iinteresting character Alan Shore as protagonist. Shore started out as an interesting and amoral asshole (My guess is that he started out as a liberal, trying to change things, got jaded by the system and decided to just have fun). There’s a mischievous streak in Alan that’s lacking in S.2. And I think the network is to blame. They wanted it dumbed down, making Shore a loveable rascal with a conscience. And with the fear of having the show cancelled, Kelley agreed. It’s won awards, critics loved it, but it didn’t get great ratings. The same goes for the two younger lawyers that got main credit billing at the beginning of S.2, but were dropped without a hint to why (on the show that is) sometime in the last trimester of the season. I’m sure they were added to make the show appealing to younger viewers, something that failed and then they were dropped. As for Denny… I think both Shatner and the writers are having so much fun with him, it’s just coincidences that decide which way he’ll go. I love the show, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537/8 "2006-08-15T04:22:48Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > The Practice, Ally McBeal, Boston Public, and Boston Legal ate all set in the same fictional Boston. In fact, the defendants from _The Practice_ made a few appearances on _Boston Public_. ---
**Author:** ![BraheSilver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@BraheSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BraheSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537/9 "2006-08-15T04:48:55Z")
Wasn’t the vice principal in _Boston Public_ a judge in an episode of _Boston Legal_? Looks like he finally got that promotion. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537/10 "2006-08-15T07:55:03Z")
> [@BraheSilver](#): > > Wasn’t the vice principal in _Boston Public_ a judge in an episode of _Boston Legal_? Looks like he finally got that promotion. Yes, in the two-parter with Heather Locklear. As I recall he really hated Alan. I’m pretty sure he was meant to be a different character though. The Principal (Chi McBride?) from Boston Public reprised his role in the season 1 BL episode about Fox News that never actually mentions Fox News by name… So at least we know BL and BP are the same universe. However, Jeri Ryan was a teacher (formerly a lawyer!) on BP but was a celebrity on BL. So maybe they’re not the same… As for Ally McBeal, probably not. The actor who played “the biscuit” was Denny’s shrink but they missed the opportunity for a cross over. I’ll spoiler box it, just in case: The shrink sneaks a gun into the courtroom and the judge asks him how he got it in. He says he borrowed his brother’s bar card. This could have been a reference to the Biscuit but the characters had different last names. Another thing that makes me doubt TP and BL are in the same universe is the fact that the same actors have played different characters on each show. Mark Vann (whom I will always know as Dr. Sparrow on Angel) was a jury consultant on TP but was the DA Brad was going to run against on BL. Adam Arkin was a lawyer on TP but a different lawyer (the DA, I think) on BL. I realize directors like to reuse reliable character actors but it makes for a confusing show. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537/11 "2006-08-15T09:41:54Z")
Here’s a guide to TV crossover universes: [http://www.poobala.com/crossoverlistb.html](http://www.poobala.com/crossoverlistb.html) The shows discussed here are in universe 32. If you’re going to object that two shows can’t be in the same universe because some character actor happened to play one character on one show and another character on another show supposedly in the same universe, you would have to conclude that many TV shows must exist in some fragmented universe, since it’s common for character actors to play different roles on a single series if the show lasts long enough. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537/12 "2006-08-15T10:20:18Z")
> [@Wendell Wagner](#): > > Here’s a guide to TV crossover universes: > > [Crossovers Spin Off Master Page](http://www.poobala.com/crossoverlistb.html) > > The shows discussed here are in universe 32. > > If you’re going to object that two shows can’t be in the same universe because some character actor happened to play one character on one show and another character on another show supposedly in the same universe, you would have to conclude that many TV shows must exist in some fragmented universe, since it’s common for character actors to play different roles on a single series if the show lasts long enough. Thanks for the link but they don’t actually discuss any of the differences between Boston Legal and the Practice that lead me to believe they’re set in different universes. In addition to characters there were a lot of other things I’ve already mentioned that suggest the two shows don’t share quite the same setting. No one has yet mentioned anything that definitively ties the two together, aside from characters. As for the reusing of actors, I hear what you’re saying. Jeff Coombs appeared as two differerent characters _in the same episode_ of Deep Space Nine (he was both Weyoun and Brunt, late in season 7). But I’m referring to TP and BL specifically. If you’re going to dress Adam Arkin in a suit and tie and have him be a lawyer, why call him Albert Ginsberg on The Practice and Douglas Kupfer on BL? It could have been the same character but for some reason it wasn’t. Am I expecting too much here? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537/13 "2006-08-15T15:20:47Z")
Yes, you’re expecting too much. They’re just TV shows. Most people don’t care that much about consistency. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537/14 "2006-09-17T05:31:14Z")
Bumping my dead thread to say that I have found some evidence that peripherally connects the two shows. I just watched 2x02 “Schadenfreude” and at the end Alan very pointedly asks Heather Locklear’s character if she actually committed the murder. In 2x01, it’s indicated that either Alan believes her or simply doesn’t care whether or not she did it. Why the change? Perhaps it’s because of the time he defended an “innocent” man only to find out after the fact that he had just helped someone get away with murder (TP episode “Mr Shore Goes to Town”). It’s not an outright connection between the shows but it’s as close as I think we’re going to get. ---
**Author:** ![Trillionaire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@Trillionaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trillionaire)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537/15 "2006-09-17T09:27:25Z")
I was a big fan of the Practice in the first couple of seasons, and I’m sure I remember an episode where a defendant’s alibi was “I was at home watching Boston Public.” ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537/16 "2006-09-17T11:47:46Z")
This all reminds me of the “St. Elsewhere” conundrum. To start: “Cheers” had 2 actual spin-offs - “Frasier” and the short-lived “The Tortellis” - and its characters were featured in episodes of “Wings”. But in one episode of “St. Elsewhere”, a couple of doctors visit Cheers and are served by the ever cheerful Carla. Eventually, it’s revealed that the who SE universe is the figment of a young boy’s mind. (Don’t remember the details.) So does that mean the 4 above shows are also part of his imaginings? I know, I know; they’re all fictional anyways. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537/17 "2006-09-17T11:50:40Z")
P.S. - Alfre Woodard’s SE character, Dr. Turner, was featured in an episode of “Homicide: Life on the Street”. This links SE with “H:LOTS” and all the “Law and Order” versions. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537/18 "2006-09-17T14:33:48Z")
> [@AWB](#): > > This all reminds me of the “St. Elsewhere” conundrum. > > To start: “Cheers” had 2 actual spin-offs - “Frasier” and the short-lived “The Tortellis” - and its characters were featured in episodes of “Wings”. But in one episode of “St. Elsewhere”, a couple of doctors visit Cheers and are served by the ever cheerful Carla. > > Eventually, it’s revealed that the who SE universe is the figment of a young boy’s mind. (Don’t remember the details.) So does that mean the 4 above shows are also part of his imaginings? > > I know, I know; they’re all fictional anyways. All of this is explained in Heinlein’s The Number of the Beast. What _do_ they teach in the schools nowadays? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537/19 "2006-09-17T16:40:20Z")
AWB writes: \> Eventually, it’s revealed that the who SE universe is the figment of a young \> boy’s mind. (Don’t remember the details.) So does that mean the 4 above \> shows are also part of his imaginings? Yes. Again, these are all parts of the Group 2 universe that’s detailed in the link I gave in my post. Note that Group 2 is a two-level universe, since it includes both _The Bob Newhart Show_ and _Newhart_. The bottom level includes _Newhart_. (The bottom level is all the shows that can be connected by crossovers with _Newhart_.) Since it’s shown in the last episode of _Newhart_ that the events in _Newhart_ are just a dream of a character in _The Bob Newhart Show_, this means that all the events of all the shows in the bottom level of the Group 2 universe are just a dream of a character in the top level of the Group 2 universe. (The top level is all the shows that can be connected by crossovers with _The Bob Newhart Show_.) However, since _St. Elsewhere_ is one of the shows in the top level of the Group 2 universe, this means that all the shows in the top level of the Group 2 universe are just a dream in the mind of the child in the final episode of _St. Elsewhere_. Furthermore, this means that all the events in all the shows in the bottom level of the Group 2 universe are just a dream in the mind of a character who’s in a dream in the mind of the child in the final episode of _St. Elsewhere_. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-boston-legal-and-the-practice-set-in-the-same-universe/368537/20 "2006-09-17T18:44:03Z")
If Leonard Nimoy shows up with a beard on _either_ show, all will become clear…