# Are buffets finished? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [April 20, 2020, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184 "2020-04-20T13:11:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184/41 "2020-04-20T19:35:25Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > Plenty of other options. I am reminded of some of the Japanese style bread shops, they have a simple system where there are stacks of tongs, you take your tongs, serve yourself with them, and then they are returned for cleaning. There are no common use tongs or other serving utensils. Obviously there is more to serving than just tongs, but it isn’t insuperable. I seem to recall some Mexican _panaderias_ like that. Pick up tongs and a tray, select your breads and pastries, pass those with payment to the clerk, who bags your purchase and sends the tongs and tray to the washer. > [@](#): > > OTOH, I have a peculiar dislike for buffet restaurants. So if they have to turn into proper restaurants, I won’t be sad. We have had wonderful meals at especially Indian buffets - although the latest local entry wasn’t so great. Two such buffets I know of at Lake Tahoe attract Bay Area Indian customers on weekends. And we do miss the Chinese buffet down in town. Some “better” Reno casinos have “better” buffets we returned to. MrsRico’s sister was a VERY senior financial exec with expensive tastes, and she knew good buffets when she saw them. But on our own we found upscale buffets at The Top Of The Mark [Hopkins Hotel] in San Francisco (Senator Ed Muskie was there) and the Easter buffet at the Ahwanee Hotel in Yosemite (Senator Bob Dole were there). I’ve experienced quite a few hotel/motel breakfast buffets. Will they vanish? \_\_ > [@RickJay](#): > > Buffets will come back. In the long run nothing in everyday life will change. _Some_ things will change, but maybe not how we expect, and in strange comobos with other events. WWI spread the 1918 flu, and what followed? Did it contribute to the “jazz age” and “Roaring Twenties”, Prohibition, bootlegging - and the spread of self-serve cafeterias? I do expect some tweaks to self-serve buffets - hand-washing at the entry, upgraded sneeze/touch shields, single-use serving utensils, more separated tables, and tricks I can’t think of but those in the business will exploit if they want to stay in business. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184/42 "2020-04-20T19:44:33Z")
Double-posting for clarity. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I doubt buffets are ‘finished’ because there is a whole demographic of people who seem to live for the “all you can eat” buffet, but really these are not only a contagion free fire zone but they also feed the peculiarly American desire to overindulge to an extreme on mediocre food of often poor nutritional value. IIRC some years back I read of American-style buffets in China whose customers regularly loaded trays mountain-high with as much edible content as possible. So it’s not a “peculiarly American desire to overindulge”. MrsRico and I didn’t “overindulge” at buffets - we merely wanted suitable meals at suitable cost, especially traveling. One crowd that swamps buffets are bicycle tourers. A gang of lean, sweaty pedalers rolls into a buffet and cleans out the carbs. I’ve seen it happen. And when I biked a couple centuries a week to commute to college, I depended on a girlfriend who was a cashier at the school cafeteria and undercharged me for multiple sandwiches. > [@](#): > > Of developed industrial nations the United States is near the top in terms of per capita incidence of Type 2 diabetes and heart disease, both of which are strongly correlated with obesity and poor nutrition. Do we know how many obese gringos frequent buffets? Any studies? I’ve seen folks of all body types at all sorts of buffets. Yes, the US is fattening, and so is much of the world. [WHO lists key facts](https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and-overweight): > [@](#): > > [ul] > [li] Worldwide obesity has nearly tripled since 1975.[/li][li] In 2016, more than 1.9 billion adults, 18 years and older, were overweight. Of these over 650 million were obese.[/li][li] 39% of adults aged 18 years and over were overweight in 2016, and 13% were obese.[/li][li] Most of the world’s population live in countries where overweight and obesity kills more people than underweight.[/li][li] 40 million children under the age of 5 were overweight or obese in 2018.[/li][li] Over 340 million children and adolescents aged 5-19 were overweight or obese in 2016.[/li][li] Obesity is preventable.[/li][/ul] How prevalent are buffets worldwide? How implicated are they in global obesity? > [@](#): > > While I don’t think as a nation we can or should attempt to regulate the behavior of individuals when it comes to their own diets, taking some steps to prevent food providers from indulging in the base addictive instincts of people by offering low grade, highly manipulated food products is something that can be done to reduce the [number of obesity-related deaths](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448478/) to something less than those expected to die from the COVID-19 epidemic in the country. Sure, suppress those base instincts by pricing food unaffordably high. Levy 40% tax on self-serves, takeouts, cafeterias. Higher rates for fats and carbs. But the economics remain, and not just at buffets, but throughout the food service sector: as much as we want for what we can afford. Possible solution: draconian rationing. Good luck there. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184/43 "2020-04-20T20:03:18Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > Sure, suppress those base instincts by pricing food unaffordably high. Levy 40% tax on self-serves, takeouts, cafeterias. Higher rates for fats and carbs. But the economics remain, and not just at buffets, but throughout the food service sector: as much as we want for what we can afford. Possible solution: draconian rationing. Good luck there. So, you’re the one creating all these taxes; I wrote nothing of the kind. But it needs to be made clear that the processed food industry has manipulated food to produce the same kind of compulsive effects and marketing as the tobacco industry did with cigarettes, and to the same end, e.g. to compel people to consume their products in excess regardless of harm. The reality is that highly processed, sugar-enriched, hydrogenated food products are contributing to epidemic levels of obesity and diabetes that have significant impacts upon health and the economy. It is entirely possible to eat economically on more healthy food—which would also be better for the environment—but the perverse incentives of ease of availability of low cost and low nutrition foods combined with a lack of education on healthy eating choices is causing more premature deaths than automobile accidents, violent crime, and the COVID-19 pandemic combined. The argument that we can’t do anything about it “because freedom” is inane. There are plenty of things that can be done that aren’t onerous taxation or “draconian rationing”. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184/44 "2020-04-20T21:24:10Z")
They have been generally a no-go for me for about 30 years. I’ve watched too many kids taking food out, taking a bite, and then throwing it back in. Besides, anything that requires something called a “sneeze shield” is generally a non-starter, although I’ve made exceptions over the years. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184/45 "2020-04-20T21:45:14Z")
At our local Quik Trip, a convenience store like a 7-11, they still have serve yourself drinks but you dont pull your cup out of a bin and go get it yourself. You have to buy one and they hand it to you. Dont know about straws and lids. So the serve yourself drink areas with cups, straws, and lids might be out. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184/46 "2020-04-20T21:58:33Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Besides the naan, what would they be? If you use the naan to pick up the other food (which is what you should do with naan), you will get invariably get sauce on your fingers. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184/47 "2020-04-20T22:03:50Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Do you have more info about that? Exact science on virus transmission does not exist. Anecdotally, I have not read of any cases with COVID-19 where transmission was human breathing on inanimate object, then delivering that object to someone else, who touches the infected portion, then touches their mouth in such a manner as to infect themselves. Part of it is the curb high barrier issue. There are multiple barriers to being infected that way. Being infected by breathing the air of an infected individual is just so much easier. In and out. Plus the fact that the hand washing, etc. gives control back to the individual. We want control, it would be great to stop the disease that way. So people tend to overrate methods that they can control. I read a post on here that listed 5 things to do to prevent COVID-19, and social distancing was listed LAST, after hand washing and all the rest. I’m sorry, that’s backwards. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184/48 "2020-04-20T22:13:11Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > Exact science on virus transmission does not exist. > > Anecdotally, I have not read of any cases with COVID-19 where transmission was human breathing on inanimate object, then delivering that object to someone else, who touches the infected portion, then touches their mouth in such a manner as to infect themselves. The more likely mechanism of transmission is a person coughing into their hand, or using a hand to adjust a contaminated mask, then touching that hand to a door handle or other common fixture. The next person who touches that fixture, and then touches their face or adjusts a mask, or picks up a piece of food, or opens a water bottle, or whatever, will transfer pathogen to the mouth and nose area. How much of the SARS-CoV-2 virus is necessary to result in probable infection is unknown but given the contagiousness of the disease probably isn’t a lot. And of course, this is the mode for transferring other non-aerosolized pathogens, so this isn’t just limited to SARS-CoV-2. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184/49 "2020-04-20T22:13:34Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > Anecdotally, I have not read of any cases with COVID-19 where transmission was human breathing on inanimate object, then delivering that object to someone else, who touches the infected portion, then touches their mouth in such a manner as to infect themselves. What about a person touching their mouth or nose and getting some infected fluid on their hands, transferring that fluid to an inanimate object, and then another person touching that object? In a buffet environment, that would be a common scenario. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184/50 "2020-04-20T22:28:48Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > What about a person touching their mouth or nose and getting some infected fluid on their hands, transferring that fluid to an inanimate object, and then another person touching that object? In a buffet environment, that would be a common scenario. It’s all part of close contact. I believe there is one known case of contact transfer over a period of time and/or distance, that is what Jay Z is talking about. Close personal contact includes infection through direct and indirect contact, along with exhaled droplets directly or indirectly ingested. Buffets are about close contact, getting Corona from a package someone else touched at a different time and/or place is very different. Despite that, a buffet is just a serve yourself cafeteria. The cafeteria model can work just a well. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184/51 "2020-04-20T22:47:44Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It’s all part of close contact. I believe there is one known case of contact transfer over a period of time and/or distance, that is what Jay Z is talking about. Close personal contact includes infection through direct and indirect contact, along with exhaled droplets directly or indirectly ingested. Buffets are about close contact, getting Corona from a package someone else touched at a different time and/or place is very different. > > Despite that, a buffet is just a serve yourself cafeteria. The cafeteria model can work just a well. The virus would be killed by stomach acid. It needs exposure to the mucus membrane. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184/52 "2020-04-20T23:03:28Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > The virus would be killed by stomach acid. It needs exposure to the mucus membrane. What on earth are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184/53 "2020-04-20T23:06:29Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > What on earth are you talking about? You > [@](#): > > along with exhaled droplets directly or indirectly ingested. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184/54 "2020-04-20T23:10:39Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > You How about inhaled? ‘Ingest’ does not mean only to swallow as food. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184/55 "2020-04-20T23:15:28Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > How about inhaled? ‘Ingest’ does not mean only to swallow as food. Hmmm…it could mean to take in data but it is not synonymous with inhale. > **[Definition of INGEST](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ingest)** > > to take in for or as if for digestion… See the full definition ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184/56 "2020-04-20T23:33:54Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > So, you’re the one creating all these taxes; I wrote nothing of the kind. I didn’t intend to imply that you had - sorry if I was unclear. Taxes or rationing occurred to me as “easy” mechanisms to suppress demand. I’m open to other options. > [@](#): > > But it needs to be made clear that the processed food industry has manipulated food to produce the same kind of compulsive effects and marketing as the tobacco industry did with cigarettes, and to the same end, e.g. to compel people to consume their products in excess regardless of harm. The reality is that highly processed, sugar-enriched, hydrogenated food products are contributing to epidemic levels of obesity and diabetes that have significant impacts upon health and the economy. How can such manipulation be stopped or reduced? “We must achieve this!” But how? > [@](#): > > It is entirely possible to eat economically on more healthy food—which would also be better for the environment—but the perverse incentives of ease of availability of low cost and low nutrition foods combined with a lack of education on healthy eating choices is causing more premature deaths than automobile accidents, violent crime, and the COVID-19 pandemic combined. The argument that we can’t do anything about it “because freedom” is inane. **There are plenty of things that can be done** that aren’t onerous taxation or “draconian rationing”. My emphasis. What are these “plenty of things”? Do they include strict regulation, or boycotts, or what? Ban types of advertising? And enforce it! Require HAZARDOUS TO HEALTH notices on packaging and inexpensive diners? That’s not deterred smokers. Public education doesn’t deter smokers. High taxes slow them down a little. What do you suggest to solve a global obesity crisis? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184/57 "2020-04-20T23:41:24Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Hmmm…it could mean to take in data but it is not synonymous with inhale. > > [Ingest Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ingest) I’ll take this as your concession. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184/58 "2020-04-20T23:53:14Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Despite that, a buffet is just a serve yourself cafeteria. The cafeteria model can work just a well. The cafeteria model requires more food-dispensing staff whether or not customers are in line. That might work with rather strict, limited meal hours, and either low-overhead or subsidized operations like a casino or hotel. (I doubt hotels make a profit on breakfast buffets.) Or the 1970s Army mess halls I recall. Eeek! In civilian life, more staff means higher prices or lower wages AFAIK. Or cheaper product. Eeek again! That said, I expect we WILL see less self-service in some places, maybe by government or corporate mandate, or “merely” customer (economic) pressure. If [del]scared[/del] sane, cautious folk stop patronizing open self-serves, only fools will self-serve, right? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184/59 "2020-04-21T02:35:32Z")
Do you remember those cafeterias where you got your food out of lock boxes at one end of the room? When my dad took the family to New York City in the 1960s, we dined at one of those places. I wonder if that could make a comeback. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184/60 "2020-04-21T02:53:43Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Do you remember those cafeterias where you got your food out of lock boxes at one end of the room? When my dad took the family to New York City in the 1960s, we dined at one of those places. I wonder if that could make a comeback. [Horn & Hardart](https://www.thoughtco.com/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-automat-4152992). That particular model is not coming back but the automation of food ordering and delivery certainly is. Companies like Panera Bread are already experimenting with it and the food service industry as a whole is [anticipating this](https://fesmag.com/features/foodservice-issues/15850-the-future-of-automation-in-foodservice)…which means, of course, fewer entry-level jobs for people without professional skills (although those jobs are going to take a hit, too). Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-buffets-finished/852184.md?page=4)