# Are 'business ethics' ethical? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 27, 2019, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321 "2019-08-27T17:11:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2019, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321/1 "2019-08-27T17:11:56Z")
I’ve seen a number of threads where people discuss how one should ethically handle business like situations, for example “should I try to pay off this loan or declare bankruptcy” or “if you take a crappy job but are applying for good jobs, should you tell the crappy job employer that you are doing so”. People often criticize responses as being ‘unethical’ if they operate from a standpoint of protecting the individual instead of favoring the company, and it’s not clear to me why that would be. So the question is: why should I (or the individual in question) not consider my personal fortune as a business and me and/or my family as the stakeholders in that business, then apply standard business ethics to all of my business dealings? Companies apply business ethics from their side when dealing with me, so I don’t see why there would be a problem with me behaving in an ethical fashion with regards to them. This makes the answers to a lot of the questions raised much simpler, and puts both sides on an even footing. People tend to act as though this isn’t reasonable, but I’ve never heard a good explanation for why. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2019, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321/2 "2019-08-27T17:41:06Z")
I absolutely expect employees to make career decisions with their own self-interest at the forefront of their deliberations and I don’t consider that unethical on their part. A lot of people have misplaced emotions when dealing with employers because most of us want to be honest. I’ve had new hires call me the Friday before they start to tell me they’ve accepted another offer. I’ve had new hires quit during their first week because they got another offer. Was I mad? No. Although it is a pain in the ass for me and costly for the company. It’s just the cost of doing business. I work for a good company but even we make decisions based on our business needs. We laid off a handful of people the other day because their positions were rendered obsolete because of a business deal we made. They didn’t do anything wrong but it doesn’t make sense to keep them on the payroll. Did we act ethically? I think so. So I can hardly blame an employee for prioritizing their own needs first. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321/3 "2019-08-27T19:04:59Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > People tend to act as though this isn’t reasonable, but I’ve never heard a good explanation for why. Guilt probably. I see it as just the way things are, expect it, and would advise everyone to act this way. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2019, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321/4 "2019-08-27T19:10:48Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > People tend to act as though this isn’t reasonable, but I’ve never heard a good explanation for why. Lots of people expect businesses to act in an impersonal manner towards their employees, but expect people to act towards their employers as if they were friends. That this benefits the business at the expense of the employee shouldn’t come as a shock to anyone who has been paying attention to US employment trends these last several decades or so. I’ll also note that this isn’t a “good” explanation, it’s merely a true one. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2019, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321/5 "2019-08-27T20:18:10Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Lots of people expect businesses to act in an impersonal manner towards their employees, but expect people to act towards their employers as if they were friends. That this benefits the business at the expense of the employee shouldn’t come as a shock to anyone who has been paying attention to US employment trends these last several decades or so. That’s my impression too, but I’m wondering if anyone has an actual argument for it rather than just buying the one-way ethics that businesses often try to promote. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321/6 "2019-08-27T20:37:26Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I work for a good company but even we make decisions based on our business needs. We laid off a handful of people the other day because their positions were rendered obsolete because of a business deal we made. They didn’t do anything wrong but it doesn’t make sense to keep them on the payroll. Did we act ethically? I think so. I do not agree that you acted ethically. This ‘business deal’ has obviously been in the works for a while. Were these ex-employees aware of that? Did they have any warning that they were about to be discarded like used toilet paper? Were they given any warning at all? Or were they paid severance pay & benefits for a reasonable time after they were discarded? (At least as long a time as you require of them in ‘giving notice’.) This is especially important as many employees have the health insurance for them and their family thru the employer. Presumably this ‘business deal’ means increased sales or production in other parts of your company. Were these employees offered transfers to other positions? Or did the ‘deal’ include a provision that they were offered first shot at any added positions at the other business in the deal? (Presumably their increased production will need additional employees.) [That’s quite possible. When my father & uncle retired & sold their business assets, the sales contract included a provision that all current employees would be retained, for at least 20% of their employment length.] I think that acting ethically would require showing more concern for the former employees than you mentioned here. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321/7 "2019-08-27T20:43:12Z")
I think there’s a few things going on: Some people simply don’t want to feel that they are “lowering” themselves to a standard of ethics which doesn’t comport with their comfort level. There seem to be a good number of people who think that if they buy a house and end up owing more than the house is worth, that as a matter of pride, they won’t walk away from the mortgage – whereas any business would surely consider doing that. But aside from that, I think others realize that there’s a power imbalance at play here. Just like how an MMA fighter can get away with running his mouth in ways that would get your 100-pound weakling assaulted, businesses can throw their weight around in ways that may not be feasible for an individual to do. So if a business fires a worker because he comes into work with a smirk on his face every day, the business can probably manage until they get a new employee in a few weeks or a couple months or whatever. If a worker doesn’t like his manager’s smirk, he can’t exactly walk off the job and have no repercussions for paying rent, eating, etc. And also, of course businesses will apply pressure to their workers or customers that they aren’t “allowed” to do things that they are actually at liberty to do, because it serves the interest of the business. Just like how cops say to people to get them to confess, saying that things will be fine if they just admit wrongdoing – only to have the person dig their own grave. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321/8 "2019-08-27T20:45:17Z")
I’d be interested in hearing arguments against the proposition in the OP. I can’t think of any myself. We employ all sorts of people, either contractors or companies we buy from. We fire them all the time for any or no reason. Businesses declare bankruptcy without much moral qualms, so we can also. Whether or not it is a good idea depends on the financials and future credit, say. It used to be that some businesses put employees relatively higher in the stakeholder list than they do today, and employees were more loyal. Not any more. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2019, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321/9 "2019-08-27T21:05:44Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > I do not agree that you acted ethically. > > This ‘business deal’ has obviously been in the works for a while. Were these ex-employees aware of that? Did they have any warning that they were about to be discarded like used toilet paper? Were they given any warning at all? > > Or were they paid severance pay & benefits for a reasonable time after they were discarded? (At least as long a time as you require of them in ‘giving notice’.) This is especially important as many employees have the health insurance for them and their family thru the employer. Isn’t that kind of stuff in the contract or employee handbook? It would indeed be unethical to screw employees over, but in many parts of the US (unlike France, Japan, etc.) people often do accept jobs with the understanding they may be sacked at any time for no reason. I mean, obviously the concept is despicable, it would never get past the trade union, and you should never, ever sign such an agreement if you have a choice, but it seems to be normal business practice rather than a sneaky or illegal surprise. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321/10 "2019-08-27T22:28:04Z")
What you state runs close to the morality of harming a company, specifically a corporation. Basically if investors formed a factitious entity, and that was done t shield them from the moral consequences of the actions (directed by them) of this factitious person, then there should be no moral wrong in harming this factitious person. Basically by shielding your rights you have also given up those rights. Legal or not there is no moral wrong in harming such a non person, when such a non person was created so a person can ot be harmed. In your case you can also depend on the government who has claimed sovereignty over you and as such has imposed laws that you can use to your benefit. Again there is no morality in this, as there is no moral right for such sovereignty, but you have the human right to use it to your advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2019, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321/11 "2019-08-27T22:37:12Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > People often criticize responses as being ‘unethical’ if they operate from a standpoint of protecting the individual instead of favoring the company, and it’s not clear to me why that would be. Do you mean that they are said to be unethical _because_ they operate from the standpoint of protecting the individual instead of favoring the company? IMO individuals who genuinely act unethically in those sorts of situations do typically act to favor themselves instead of the company, but that’s not what makes them unethical. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321/12 "2019-08-28T00:13:36Z")
I’m not really sure what “standard business ethics” are. Obviously, it makes sense to act ethically because it promotes trust and enhances reputation. But because business is inherently competitive, some will go further than others to seek advantage, which is easier than ever due to asymmetrical advances in technology. At a minimum, one would hope they obey the law, which is often a clumsy and outdated tool. One would also hope they follow their own guidelines and procedures. Finally, one would hope business respects stakeholders at a human level, respecting the dignity and contribution of individual elements. This, of course, varies a great deal. But good businesses are law abiding, transparent and humane. And while it is true many innovative and even successful businesses have tried to rewrite these rules, they will find that customers have limited patience and trust is not fungible. It is easier to appear moral than to be ethical, just as some people can find the right words to express concern without much underlying concern or empathy. As for individuals, in many environments a team approach is helpful. But humans are engineered to show reciprocity and often what they put into and get out of an endeavour are proportional. It is not wrong to put your needs first. But it is often wrong to expect other people to put your needs first. This is true even for altruistic people. It is true many businesses may expect more than they offer. It is also true businesses are made of people expert in finding justifications for their behaviour, if it is ethical or if it is unethical. Probably business ethics, overall, are one of those pendulums that swing from reasonable corporate governance to getting away with anything that can be loosely justified. Corporate governance exists because business ethics become too loose and both internal and external constraints are needed to return the pendulum back to reasonable norms. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321/13 "2019-08-28T03:17:26Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > This ‘business deal’ has obviously been in the works for a while. Were these ex-employees aware of that? Did they have any warning that they were about to be discarded like used toilet paper? Were they given any warning at all? Several of them were offered jobs with the other company we’re now doing business with at the same salary, with similar benefits, and the option of staying in Arkansas or going to two other states. > [@](#): > > Or were they paid severance pay & benefits for a reasonable time after they were discarded? (At least as long a time as you require of them in ‘giving notice’.) This is especially important as many employees have the health insurance for them and their family thru the employer. Yes. Each one gets a severance package based on the number of years they’ve been with the company. > [@](#): > > Presumably this ‘business deal’ means increased sales or production in other parts of your company. Were these employees offered transfers to other positions? Or did the ‘deal’ include a provision that they were offered first shot at any added positions at the other business in the deal? I’m not talking about division assistants who can easily transfer to another department. These were employees with a particular set of skills that weren’t applicable to other areas of the company. They could certainly apply for open positions but they’d be competing with other employees for that position and odds are their pay would go down because the position wasn’t within their wheelhouse. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321/14 "2019-08-28T04:02:07Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > This ‘business deal’ has obviously been in the works for a while. Were these ex-employees aware of that? At one point do you think the company is ethically obligated to tell an employee their job may potentially be at risk? At one point do you think an employee is ethically obligated to tell their employer they’re seeking work elsewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321/15 "2019-08-28T06:14:19Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > I’ve seen a number of threads where people discuss how one should ethically handle business like situations, for example “should I try to pay off this loan or declare bankruptcy” or “if you take a crappy job but are applying for good jobs, should you tell the crappy job employer that you are doing so”. People often criticize responses as being ‘unethical’ if they operate from a standpoint of protecting the individual instead of favoring the company, and it’s not clear to me why that would be. I challenge the premise. Neither of these examples are _inherently_ unethical, in my opinion. > [@Pantastic](#): > > So the question is: why should I (or the individual in question) not consider my personal fortune as a business and me and/or my family as the stakeholders in that business, then apply standard business ethics to all of my business dealings? You should. > [@Pantastic](#): > > Companies apply business ethics from their side when dealing with me, so I don’t see why there would be a problem with me behaving in an ethical fashion with regards to them. There isn’t a problem with that. > [@Pantastic](#): > > This makes the answers to a lot of the questions raised much simpler, and puts both sides on an even footing. Adding an ethical dimension to the employee-employer relationship does not put both sides on an even footing, but it may and should help you decide how to navigate that relationship. > [@Pantastic](#): > > People tend to act as though this isn’t reasonable, but I’ve never heard a good explanation for why. I think it is reasonable. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321/16 "2019-08-28T06:26:41Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Some people simply don’t want to feel that they are “lowering” themselves to a standard of ethics which doesn’t comport with their comfort level. There seem to be a good number of people who think that if they buy a house and end up owing more than the house is worth, that as a matter of pride, they won’t walk away from the mortgage – whereas any business would surely consider doing that. I would phrase this differently. Some people hold themselves to a more strict set of ethics than they expect of others, and some of these people’s “personal ethics” compel them to keep their word, even if they lose out on some substantial opportunity cost. > [@Ravenman](#): > > But aside from that, I think others realize that there’s a power imbalance at play here. Just like how an MMA fighter can get away with running his mouth in ways that would get your 100-pound weakling assaulted, businesses can throw their weight around in ways that may not be feasible for an individual to do. So if a business fires a worker because he comes into work with a smirk on his face every day, the business can probably manage until they get a new employee in a few weeks or a couple months or whatever. If a worker doesn’t like his manager’s smirk, he can’t exactly walk off the job and have no repercussions for paying rent, eating, etc. Agreed. > [@Ravenman](#): > > And also, of course businesses will apply pressure to their workers or customers that they aren’t “allowed” to do things that they are actually at liberty to do, because it serves the interest of the business. Just like how cops say to people to get them to confess, saying that things will be fine if they just admit wrongdoing – only to have the person dig their own grave. In my opinion, such behavior _no es bueno_. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321/17 "2019-08-28T06:29:28Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > …in many parts of the US (unlike France, Japan, etc.) people often do accept jobs with the understanding they may be sacked at any time for no reason. I mean, obviously the concept is despicable, it would never get past the trade union, and you should never, ever sign such an agreement if you have a choice, but it seems to be normal business practice rather than a sneaky or illegal surprise. At-will employment usually allows the employee to quit at any time for no reason, too. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321/18 "2019-08-28T08:55:00Z")
[Obligatory post on this by Existential Comics](https://existentialcomics.com/comic/240). Is your business likely to treat you like you matter? Are they going to care if something goes wrong in your life? Would they fire you to improve their bottom line, even knowing the [intense psychological harm](http://money.com/money/4757432/effects-of-getting-fired-study/) this will do to you? If not, _why treat them any better_? CurrentAffairs [writes about a similar phenomenon here](https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/05/you-should-care-about-your-bank-exactly-as-much-as-they-care-about-you): > [@](#): > > And we’ve been judging people for failing to pay their debts probably since debts existed. We have specific words for people who don’t pay: they’re “deadbeats” or they’re “loafers.” Even the word “debtor” feels judgmental. What’s more, debtors’ prisons have a long and storied history, including in the U.S. And despite debtors’ prisons having been abolished, you can still find people going to jail just because they can’t pay back debt (including student loans). In short, lots of people firmly believe that paying back one’s debts is a moral requirement, and many people who can’t pay back their debts feel like bad people because of it. > > We need to cut this out. It’s certainly not a moral failing to be unable to pay back your debts, nor is it a moral failing to choose not to pay back your debts. The people and institutions most responsible for pushing the idea that one must pay back one’s debts are, unsurprisingly, the lenders. And while the lenders are out moralizing about how their customers must pay or else they’re irresponsible deadbeats, corporations, including the lenders themselves, frequently refuse to pay money they owe even when they can afford to do so. That is, they really only fulfill their promises (debts and other contractual promises) when the benefits of doing so outweigh the costs. If it will cost them more to fulfill a promise than they will get out of it, they just don’t. This is common enough for there to be a term for it: strategic default. (Default is a fancy term for failing to fulfill your end of a contract. It usually applies to loans but really can be any contract.) > > This double standard is infuriating, but we can find real harm living behind this hypocrisy. Lots of people feel really bad when they can’t afford to pay back debts even though it is in no way their fault. And the shame and anguish associated with finding yourself trapped in debt doesn’t only prevent people from taking actions that are best for them as an individual, it also serves as a barrier to collective action against abusive creditors. Capitalism is a ruthless, bloodless, amoral system, and without fail, the most powerful actors within capitalism are those who are willing to feed innocent people to a woodchipper if it meant an extra goddamn nickel on the balance sheet. Case in point: [basically any post on any forum for landlords](https://www.indy100.com/article/landlords-message-board-renters-tenants-viral-tweet-9002701). By all means, don’t be a dick to small businesses, or to workers. But “business ethics”? Big businesses have no ethics, not in the sense that we would understand. Because capitalism not only doesn’t require it, but _actively punishes it_. Don’t be nicer to the faceless, soulless corporations than they legally have to be to you - because they sure as hell won’t be, either. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321/19 "2019-08-28T14:02:33Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Do you mean that they are said to be unethical _because_ they operate from the standpoint of protecting the individual instead of favoring the company? I’ll just go ahead and quote from the thread that prompted this. OP asked “Someone looking for a new job who needs one right now applies to many, many positions… A less-than-ideal job starting tomorrow is offered. Is it unethical to accept the ick job (cashiering) without telling them that you might not be there for more than a week,and that you have interviewed in many other places?” and some of the responses were what I quoted below. The majority of responses disagreed with the those positions, but I posted this thread trying to see if anyone had justification for it. (Also note that the first one is interesting because of the 9 month time frame - if the event in 9 months is ‘having a baby’, it’s illegal for the employer to use that information in a hiring decision in the US) > [@](#): > > To use a contrived example, if you need a job now to pay the bills, but you also know that in 9 months, you’ll likely get another, better job (graduating from college, getting certification, etc…). If you take a job for the interim 9 months and portray yourself as permanent to your employer, in order to get the job, that’s where it becomes unethical. " > [@](#): > > "If you know all this, and deliberately withhold the information that you _expect_ to be leaving in some defined amount of time, then that’s pretty unethical. And a self-centered asshole move to boot. It’s the deceptive part that makes it unethical- just because it’s a company on the other end doesn’t make it somehow less unethical on your part. Would it somehow be different if you got into a relationship with someone for your own benefit, knowing outright that you are leaving in 9 months with no intention of retaining the relationship, and not being upfront about your plans to leave? It’s just as dishonest and deceptive. " ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321/20 "2019-08-28T14:13:54Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > I’m not really sure what “standard business ethics” are. The core one that’s relevant here is “Fiduciary duty”, the idea that a person working for a business has a duty to work in the best interest of the stakeholders, which in practice means people working for a company have an ethical duty to act in the interest of shareholders. My assertion here is that an individual has the same ethical duty to run their personal business for the benefit of its stakeholders, namely themselves or their family. If that’s not ethical, then the idea that directors should manage corporate assets in the best interest of shareholders is also unethical. > [@](#): > > But good businesses are law abiding, transparent and humane. I don’t think that lobbying for laws that favor you then using the fact that you follow them to show that you’re ethical is actually legitimate. If an employee planning to leave a job without giving notice is behaving unethically, then a business planning to lay off an employee without giving notice is also behaving unethically, even if the business has lobbied for a legal framework that forbids them from giving reasonable notice of layoffs. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-business-ethics-ethical/839321.md?page=2)