# Are CD's dead, yet? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 9, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860 "2017-07-09T18:43:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860/61 "2017-07-10T20:51:44Z")
I still buy CDs. My typical behavior is to subscribe to a music streaming service, which ends up being my usual way to listen to albums and find new bands that interest me. If I like an album I’ll buy it as a CD off Amazon. This has one practical benefit that affects me on a day to day basis: my car automatically rips CDs to its hard drive, which is a convenient way to listen to music in the car. That isn’t a huge deal, because I can just as easily plug my phone into it’s USB port, but it is a minor convenience. I think the main reasons I do it are: (1) a vague sense that I’m more directly contributing to the artists than just listening to their albums as part of a streaming subscription service and (2) I’m a little uncomfortable with the concept of digital ownership. The principle seems a little murky to me (although in practice I’ve never actually sold a CD). I know what it means to sell a CD I’ve purchased. I don’t think there is a good mechanism or legal clarity regarding reselling a digital download. I don’t really know what it means to “buy” a digital album or movie. Is it really mine forever, or just while Amazon, etc. says it is or the format is easily playable because the related companies are still around? Seems more like a long term rental to me. I may as well stick to a monthly subscription service. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860/62 "2017-07-10T22:21:19Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > It’s such a fad that Sony, a major player in the recording business, will begin producing LPS again for the first time since 1989. It is still a fad in my view. I’m not trying to be offensive, but when hipsters find something else to investigate and propagate, vinyl will die off again. Generally there is a trajectory with technology. Newer technologies are cheaper, higher quality, more portable, more options, more reliable, etc. People generally do not pick technologies that are more expensive, lower quality, less portable, fewer options, less reliable, etc. unless there is some other reason (nostalgia, culture, etc). Vinyl really doesn’t have any of that. A remastered vinyl record sounds good, but is it better than a remastered FLAC file? It is more expensive and less portable. For some people the idea of having a physical record player in their living room is a nice feeling, but that is a small % of the population who desire that over something cheaper, more reliable and more portable. According to Dr. Wikipedia, in the US about 13 million vinyl records were sold in the US in 2016. But in 2010 only 3 million were sold. > **[Vinyl revival | Sales](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_revival#Sales)** > > NOTE: Many citations below include CD sales, not just vinyl sales\[citation needed\]. This chart should be reviewed and revised for accuracy. Of those 13 million vinyl records, did 13 million people all buy 1 record in 2016, or did 1 million people each buy an average of 13 records that year? I’d assume the latter. That is a small niche market. Also this comedy skit from 1996 is pertinent. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/XCumH8LRo1A/hqdefault.jpg "Mr. Show - The Last Donut") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCumH8LRo1A&t=1m7s) ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860/63 "2017-07-10T23:41:23Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > the easiest way to tell (if you can still hear that high) is MP3 by default low-pass filters the audio it’s compressing at 16 kHz. so depending on the type of music, you can identify lossy vs. uncompressed/lossless by a tiny bit more high end. > > apart from that, in the past there have been some corner cases which caused problems for mp3 encoders; there was a test file years ago of castanets which could reliably cause a “pre-echo” when the existing mp3 codecs tried to compress it. I’m aware those are English words put together into sentences but absolutely none of that made any sense to me, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860/64 "2017-07-11T00:47:26Z")
Translation: Most MP3s are recorded with all the very very high pitches completely filtered out. Those above 16 kHz or very roughly 6 octaves above middle C. If you’re young enough and your ears are good enough, you might notice those very high highs are missing from an MP3 but are present in other, better encodings. As a practical matter, almost all music has almost zero such notes, and darn near anyone over 30 or who ever listened to loud music or cars or lawnmowers can’t hear those notes anyhow. So the notes being missing is immaterial to that audience. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860/65 "2017-07-11T01:10:11Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > As a practical matter, almost all music has almost zero such notes, and darn near anyone over 30 or who ever listened to loud music or cars or lawnmowers can’t hear those notes anyhow. So the notes being missing is immaterial to that audience. Music does not generally have fundamental notes that high, but it certainly has harmonic overtones that high. They do contribute a small but distinctive element to the timbre. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860/66 "2017-07-11T01:23:51Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Music does not generally have fundamental notes that high, but it certainly has harmonic overtones that high. They do contribute a small but distinctive element to the timbre. if you’re worried about hearing those harmonics, then you’re not interested in the music. you’re just interested in knowing you can hear those harmonics. me? I’d rather listen to the music. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860/67 "2017-07-11T01:31:14Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > if you’re worried about hearing those harmonics, then you’re not interested in the music. you’re just interested in knowing you can hear those harmonics. That’s dumb. Maybe different people enjoy music in different ways. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860/68 "2017-07-11T01:36:20Z")
I prefer to listen to music on Youtube because it’s free (yes I’m a cheap bastard) and because it has the most diversity of any service. Like a song by the Beatles? You can listen to the Beatles peform it. You can also listen to dozens of cover versions of the song by both professional and amateur artists of varying quality. I’ve found some of the covers quite good. The last CD I bought was a Prince CD because for years his music wasn’t availableon Youtube. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860/69 "2017-07-11T02:40:34Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > if you’re worried about hearing those harmonics, then you’re not interested in the music. you’re just interested in knowing you can hear those harmonics. > > me? I’d rather listen to the music. > [@friedo](#): > > That’s dumb. Maybe different people enjoy music in different ways. Agree with **friedo**. Now, I’ve got a tin ear, and I can’t really make out those harmonics and other graces. But I can tell an oboe from a clarinet, even when they’re playing the “same note.” It isn’t just about “the music.” Little things add a lot of richness. .midi music files are okay, if all you want is “the music.” They’ve also recorded Christmas carols performed by barking dogs, or tuned electric motors… (Antonio Vivaldi liked to invent “virtual” musical instruments, by having two instruments play the same tune. The combination of instruments created a “new instrument” – sort of like an 8-stringed violin! Some of the effects, such as the “tromba marina” of his celebrated Concerto in C for Diverse Instruments, are really magnificent.) ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860/70 "2017-07-11T02:49:25Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > .midi music files are okay, if all you want is “the music.” They’ve also recorded Christmas carols performed by barking dogs, or tuned electric motors… That’s got nothing on _What is Love_ on the [eight-voice floppy drive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk_XaJ7gE4Q). ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860/71 "2017-07-11T04:21:55Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Translation: > > Most MP3s are recorded with all the very very high pitches completely filtered out. Those above 16 kHz or very roughly 6 octaves above middle C. If you’re young enough and your ears are good enough, you might notice those very high highs are missing from an MP3 but are present in other, better encodings. > > As a practical matter, almost all music has almost zero such notes, and darn near anyone over 30 or who ever listened to loud music or cars or lawnmowers can’t hear those notes anyhow. So the notes being missing is immaterial to that audience. Thanks. That makes much more sense. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860/72 "2017-07-11T04:34:21Z")
If you think that those overtones don’t matter, then listen to an operatic soprano at the top of her range, sometime. Clip off the overtones, and you end up hearing beeping instead of singing. ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860/73 "2017-07-11T08:12:48Z")
> [@Scoobysnax](#): > > I still buy CDs, usually from Amazon since they come with the AutoRip of the MP3s. I like having physical backups of my music and games in case I lose my account or my hard drive fails. Same here. I somehow still like to look at the CD case or booklet if it has one, seems more like an album to me. They don’t take up a ton of room. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860/74 "2017-07-11T08:43:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If you think that those overtones don’t matter, then listen to an operatic soprano at the top of her range, sometime. Clip off the overtones, and you end up hearing beeping instead of singing. I’m trying to think of the number of times in my life I’ve ever done that, and so far it’s zero. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860/75 "2017-07-11T08:51:44Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Agree with **friedo**. Now, I’ve got a tin ear, and I can’t really make out those harmonics and other graces. But I can tell an oboe from a clarinet, even when they’re playing the “same note.” It isn’t just about “the music.” Little things add a lot of richness. > > .midi music files are okay, if all you want is “the music.” They’ve also recorded Christmas carols performed by barking dogs, or tuned electric motors… > > (Antonio Vivaldi liked to invent “virtual” musical instruments, by having two instruments play the same tune. The combination of instruments created a “new instrument” – sort of like an 8-stringed violin! Some of the effects, such as the “tromba marina” of his celebrated Concerto in C for Diverse Instruments, are really magnificent.) We’re not talking about hearing differences between an oboe and a clarinet, I’m talking about stuff above 16 kHz _where a heck of a lot of people above a certain age can’t hear anything anyway._. And where there isn’t very much content from natural instruments anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Mavic\_Chen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e56c9b/32.png) [@Mavic\_Chen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mavic_Chen)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860/76 "2017-07-11T11:01:03Z")
But MP3s are popular with “tha kids” and they can all hear way past 16kHz!!! Explain that, science!!! ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860/77 "2017-07-11T11:09:22Z")
When I’ve been following an artist for decades and have all their releases, it hardly enters my mind _not_ to buy the new cd! And buying at smaller gigs means that you can often get them signed by the performers, if you want. I’ve also got cds I like by support acts that, if I hadn’t bought the cd, I’d have only a fuzzy memory of as I doubt I’d have looked them up later. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860/78 "2017-07-11T11:43:26Z")
I think DVDs etc will last for a while, despite prognostications to the contrary, but CDs are definitely over. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860/79 "2017-07-11T14:10:35Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > … > They’ve also recorded Christmas carols performed by barking dogs, or tuned electric motors. > … Do share about the motors. I’ve heard the dogs. > [@friedo](#): > > That’s got nothing on _What is Love_ on the [eight-voice floppy drive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk_XaJ7gE4Q). Tres cool. Thanks. But I don’t recall ever hearing any floppy drive make those sorts of noises. So the overall effect (for me) is fake rather than amazing. Here’s an old post of mine about my music-playing app for a 1970s IBM line printer: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5383169#post5383169](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5383169#post5383169) > [@Mavic\_Chen](#): > > But MP3s are popular with “tha kids” and they can all hear way past 16kHz!!! Explain that, science!!! Easy-peasy. 1. Kids have always been philistines, valuing quantity over quality. 2. Kids have always been some combo of poor and cheap. MP3s are free and plentiful. That’s totes what matters to kids. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860/80 "2017-07-11T19:18:40Z")
The issues you guys are describing with MP3s only really applies to lower quality ones. The 16khz lowpass is only for 120-150kbps. The now “standard” is 170-210kbps, which has an 18khz lowpass. And, of course, if you take it up higher, you get to the point where there is no lowpass at all. The encoders (well, LAME) have gotten really, really good. And that’s just for MP3s, which are less efficient than AAC, Ogg, or Vorbis. I find it weird they have such a stranglehold when pretty much everyone listens to music on a device that is more than capable of better quality. Things have improved a lot since the Napster days with those fixed rate 128 kbps files. Lossless is generally overkill for anything but audio editing. That said, audiobooks tend to be much lower quality, and so I buy those CDs. As for concerts, I’m all for replacing selling CDs with a code or micro-SD card. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cds-dead-yet/790860.md?page=5)