# Are Christians in America persecuted? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 18, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639 "2013-01-18T18:51:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639/61 "2013-01-19T09:16:53Z")
> [@I\_Know\_Nothing](#): > > Yes! This always frustrates me about church/state debates. Conservative Christians, whether or on purpose or not, move back and forth from public(part of a government) to public(seen by everyone). So making a point that public schools should not be promoting religion gets construed into me being against religion being displayed in public, like a nativity scene displayed on private property. Or like them pretending that forbidding school employees from leading prayers in schools forbids people there from praying on their own. They even do things like have prayer rallies around flagpoles at schools to show their “defiance” of an imaginary ban on them praying on school grounds. They’re desperate to feel like martyrs. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639/62 "2013-01-19T11:56:54Z")
If Christians think they are persecuted they should take out their Bibles and make a list of ALL OF Jesus quoted sayings. Then ask if they are really following him. He did say(if the writer is quoting him correctly)." Take up your Cross and Follow Me"?. Only a person of very weak faith would consider themselves persecuted because they can’t have their own way in a country that gives no Religion preference. If they aren’t doing or listening to “ALL” of what Jesus is said to have said, they aren’t really doing as they should., ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639/63 "2013-01-19T12:51:53Z")
Not getting as much privilege as you want isn’t the same thing as persecution. Christians can worship freely and without limit. What many Christians take as persecution, is they want the permission to lie to other people’s children and pretend that their beliefs are science. Or to be able to force their beliefs on others via abstinence programs (for instance). Not being able to force others to live by your beliefs isn’t persecution. In fact, what those Christians want is to be able to \*persecute \*others. It’s absurd. ---
**Author:** ![ExcitedIdiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ea5d25/32.png) [@ExcitedIdiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExcitedIdiot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639/64 "2013-01-19T14:02:32Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > The worst things I experienced were gratuitous religion-bashing in _Imagine_\* > \*In context, it’s pretty damn gratuitous in that it seems to come out of nowhere. Even as pretty much an atheist I still think the line seems awfully clunky and out of place even if the sentiment is mostly true. It’s just one line(maybe two, I can’t remember) and it isn’t speaking about any particular religion. There are a million songs about how great god is, what is wrong with Lennon writing what he feels? It isn’t bashing anyone, it’s expressing an opinion. Do you think the peace songs of that era were bashing the soldiers fighting in Vietnam? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639/65 "2013-01-19T14:13:00Z")
> [@ExcitedIdiot](#): > > There are a million songs about how great god is Did you read the part of my post that was talking about how it would have been different if I had grown up in a society with such a reversal? > [@](#): > > what is wrong with Lennon writing what he feels? Did I say that it was wrong? I said it was gratuitous and out of place. Much like if you inserted a line about how all atheists will burn in hell into an ordinary love song just out of the blue. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639/66 "2013-01-19T14:17:43Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Did I say that it was wrong? I said it was gratuitous and out of place. Much like if you inserted a line about how all atheists will burn in hell into an ordinary love song just out of the blue. Gratuitous and out of place? It’s a song about how the world would be better if people let go of the things that divide them and make them suffer. He believes that religion is one of them. It’s fundamental to the work. ---
**Author:** ![ExcitedIdiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ea5d25/32.png) [@ExcitedIdiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExcitedIdiot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639/67 "2013-01-19T14:19:07Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Did you read the part of my post that was talking about how it would have been different if I had grown up in a society with such a reversal? > > Did I say that it was wrong? I said it was gratuitous and out of place. Much like if you inserted a line about how all atheists will burn in hell into an ordinary love song just out of the blue. You implied it was wrong by calling it religion bashing. Also it’s not inserted into a love song. The whole song is about a utopia as imagined by Lennon. Lack of religion was a big part of it. It is not out of place, it’s exactly where he intended it to be. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639/68 "2013-01-19T14:31:12Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Did you read the part of my post that was talking about how it would have been different if I had grown up in a society with such a reversal? > > Did I say that it was wrong? I said it was gratuitous and out of place. Much like if you inserted a line about how all atheists will burn in hell into an ordinary love song just out of the blue. The song was released near the end of the peace, love, and hippy era, during the conflict in Vietnam, and was never intended as a love song. From Wiki: "Rolling Stone’s David Fricke commented: “[Lennon] calls for a unity and equality built upon the complete elimination of modern social order: geopolitical borders, organised religion, [and] economic class.” No reason to take it personally; song is a sweeping homage to humanism, certainly not a swipe at Christianity. Maybe you just got stuck with the first impression the song left with you, but give the lyrics a once over, I think you’ll find that it isn’t offensive or derisive. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639/69 "2013-01-19T14:46:25Z")
I’m sorry that I mistook it for a love song. It was absolutely not meant as a metaphor or analogy. How could you people have overlooked the phallic imagery rife throughout the verses? ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639/70 "2013-01-19T14:54:17Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I’m sorry that I mistook it for a love song. It was absolutely not meant as a metaphor or analogy. How could you people have overlooked the phallic imagery rife throughout the verses? Joking? If not, please explain. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639/71 "2013-01-19T15:57:08Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I’m sorry that I mistook it for a love song. How could anybody possibly mistake “Imagine” for a love song?! It’s about love in the can’t-we-all-get-along sense, but it is not a love song. A love song is about love **between two people** – “Michelle My Belle,” “I Want to Hold Your Hand,” “Money Can’t Buy Me Love,” those are love songs. Look, think of it in Biblical terms: The Song of Solomon is a love song; the Sermon on the Mount is not. “Imagine” is a Sermon on the Mount. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639/72 "2013-01-19T18:02:16Z")
LOL! 😃 I’m sorry, I can’t stop laughing at the premise! Christians! Persecuted! :D:D:D:D ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639/73 "2013-01-19T18:09:33Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > After Obama resigned from Wright’s church, he didn’t join any new church for a while (not sure if he’s a member of any church right now). I haven’t seen anyone make a fuss over how often one attends religious services. To the contrary, Obama has recently been criticized for how much he talks about Jesus. Like at the Sandy Hook memorial service, for example. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639/74 "2013-01-19T22:24:42Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > LOL! 😃 I’m sorry, I can’t stop laughing at the premise! Christians! Persecuted! :D:D:D:D This should’ve been the thread. It’s really not worth entertaining people with a persecution complex’s mental illness. ---
**Author:** ![James52637](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@James52637](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James52637)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639/75 "2013-01-21T04:55:19Z")
_coughs loudly_ Not nearly as much as they should be. _ends coughing fit_ They’re not persecuted nearly as much as the pastors of churches I have been forced to attend like to say they are, either. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639/76 "2013-01-28T22:19:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Inspired by [url=]this :rolleyes: No, **Debaser,** it is not understandable or reasonable for Christians to feel “persecuted” by the principle that “there can be no mention or recognition of religion by government at all.” And most American Christians don’t. Most understand perfectly well that an atheist winning a lawsuit and getting the Nativity scene taken off the courthouse lawn or the Ten Commandments plaque out of the lobby, however distasteful that outcome might be to them, is not an instance of Christians being persecuted. Christians know what persecution is, it’s what the early Roman Emperors did and what the early martyrs suffered, and, no, anything that does not rise to that level is probably **not** persecution. In fact, apart from the occasional hate-crime, practically no one in America is being persecuted **any more.** (Well, just maybe you could make a case WRT pot smokers, etc.) Some still suffer discrimination and some suffer exploitation and some suffer marginalization, those are all bad, but those are not persecution. You want instances of “persecution” in American history? There were lynchings in the South well into the 1950s. **That** is persecution. Driving the Godbothering out of the public square is not. Maybe we’re not being persecuted in U.S., but we’re being persecuted on SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639/77 "2013-01-28T22:24:34Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Maybe we’re not being persecuted in U.S., but we’re being persecuted on SDMB. “Persecution” is not a synonym for “people being allowed to criticize you”, despite all the Christians who like to pretend it is. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639/78 "2013-01-28T22:25:12Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Maybe we’re not being persecuted in U.S., but we’re being persecuted on SDMB. No, you are sometimes **mocked** on the SDMB. That is not persecution. You can always mock back, and you will never be banned just for being Christian. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639/79 "2013-01-28T22:37:29Z")
Oddly enough, several “friends” from high school have since become much more Christian in their old age. From what I can gather from their FB postings, their man source of “persecution” comes from people filing lawsuits against schools for things like prayer in the classroom, taking the kids to see Charlie Brown Christmas, Bible quotes on the wall. Basically stuff like that. Typically there will be several follow up posts along the lines of “they won’t let God or a Bible in the classroom but if it were a Koran…” It sort of goes back to an earlier thread I started about paranoia of the Far Right and how they seem to view any slight as an affront against their White Conservative Christian exceptionalism. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639/80 "2013-01-28T22:38:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, you are sometimes **mocked** on the SDMB. That is not persecution. Well…thank God I can’t be burned at the stake on the internet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-christians-in-america-persecuted/647639.md?page=5)