# Are Cigarette Smokers Pigs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 28, 2003, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080 "2003-05-28T19:02:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/41 "2003-05-30T02:48:22Z")
I’ve always thought that the reason so many cig butts are thrown on the ground is because there are so few ash trays around. It is not a good practice to put cigarette butts in trash cans as they would likely start a fire. (unless you douse it with water, a cigarette butt probably could still start a fire even after it has been crushed ‘out.’) I think a few butts on the ground is better than flaming rubbish bins everywhere. Simple solution? More ash cans in public. ---
**Author:** ![Sqube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Sqube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sqube)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/42 "2003-05-30T03:19:39Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by zwaldd_ > Why shouldn’t they litter? Why would someone not care about how their clothes, breath, car, and body smell, not care about their health, not care about making people inhale second hand smoke, not care about throwing money away, but care about litter? I’m kinda hard-pressed to see where you didn’t make a sweeping generalization about all smokers here. My interpretation of your statement is “Why should smokers who \ care about litter?” Nowhere in your statement do you imply that you’re not talking about all smokers. Just thought I’d point that out. Also, I think we should leave smokers alone. The way we’re going, they’re going to have to go out to dinghies in the middle of whatever ocean is most convenient to get a fix. If we’re trying to make it illegal (and that’s how it looks to my young eyes), we might as well do it all at once instead of piecemeal. It just makes things a hassle for everybody involved. ---
**Author:** ![SparrowHawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac8455/32.png) [@SparrowHawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SparrowHawk)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/43 "2003-05-30T04:03:19Z")
Well, **lezlers** , we aren’t in the Pit, after all. Just trying to maintain the high tone of GD, here. You sound extremely considerate. See, I knew you were cool. But if people hardly know you smoke, they aren’t going to think of good ol’ considerate **lezlers** when they think “smoker” they’re going to think of the obnoxious slobs who make themselves obvious. That’s what leads to anti-smoker vitriol, which leads to ultra-defensive smokers and the whole vicious cycle thing. **zwaldd** , (sorry for the previous misspelling), your wording makes it seem as though you are saying “All smokers don’t care about these things therefore no smoker cares about littering, either.” I can see how **lezlers** feels that’s an attitude of “it’s okay to judge the kind of person someone is by a habit they have, not by, well, the kind of person they are.” Which brings me to the Great Debateness of “Are Cigarette Smokers Pigs?” because I think habits do tell you something about the kind of person someone is. The fact that neither **lezlers** nor I, nor **Nocturne, lightingtool, jjim, milroyj** and many others don’t throw our garbage of whatever sort around, is some indication that we are considerate and responsible people. But look at all the smokers in that list. I hereby conclude that hat one habit is not enough to justify pigeonholing everybody in that same category. Of course, I had already concluded that. All litterbugs, on the other hand, are pigs. May they all step in gum. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/44 "2003-05-30T04:05:06Z")
Nice try **zwaldd**. You obviously think that anyone who would smoke doesn’t care about health, environment, smell, ect. ect. and therefore shouldn’t care about littering. That’s not some people, because you stated that if someone smokes then they don’t care about those things. A statement that bold is pretty hard to backpeddle from. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/45 "2003-05-30T04:21:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by greck \* > Make them all filterless for god’s sake! Amen. A solution that solves the litter problem _and_ cuts down on the number of smokers. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/46 "2003-05-30T06:45:46Z")
I’ve been to events where all of the smokers ground out their cigarette butts and then deposited them into a plastic bag they were carrying. This was the exception. In my life, I have watched smokers toss METRIC TONS of butts out of car windows, on the ground, into lakes, on the sidewalk, onto hardwood floors, stubbed them out on the Mona Lisa, left them on the Pieta’s dais … okay, I made up some of those. Pigs are the rule. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/47 "2003-05-30T08:25:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > Now excuse me while I spark up another Marlboro Light. > > Aaaaah. 🙂 Can you take a message? Jjimm’s in Flavor Country right now.😛 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/48 "2003-05-30T10:23:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > \*\*Can you take a message? Jjimm’s in Flavor Country right now.😛 \*\* I was indeed in Flavor Country, emptying a dumpster of cigarette butts into the Grand Canyon. Smokers, unite: if we all puff together, we can blot out that wonder of the natural world with our stinking ordure! ---
**Author:** ![Trjckster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Trjckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trjckster)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/49 "2003-05-30T10:54:37Z")
Personnally cigarette butts don’t come close to amount of bile plastic bags raise in me. Gum, fast food wrappers, glass bottles (broken or waiting to break), newspapers, beer cans and vomit I walk by every day on my way to work, cigarette butts are hardly a major issue. While I don’t approve of smoking or any littering I think this thread is simply an attack on smokers by people who need some perspective on the scale of this problem. Forcing smokers to bin all butts would lead to a huge increase in fires by accident or incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![ThawingSlowly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@ThawingSlowly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThawingSlowly)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/50 "2003-05-30T11:38:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by I Love Me, Vol. I \* > **It is not a good practice to put cigarette butts in trash cans as they would likely start a fire. (unless you douse it with water, a cigarette butt probably could still start a fire even after it has been crushed ‘out.’)** Ah see, the thing is that the non-biodegradable filter is detachable (at least on my brand), I always thought the reason for that was so you could throw it in the trash, but I suppose it could just be a useful side-effect from the manufacturing process. Just roll the filter between two fingers while you squeeze the tip a little, and the biodegradable good-for-nature tobacco/paper part falls off. No risk of starting fires when you throw the bad-for-nature filter in the trash. No more complaints for leaving unsightly and evil pig-droppings on the ground. Putting the filters back with the unsmoked cigarettes, as someone suggested, isn’t very appetising to me though. I wouldn’t put used gum back in the packet either. ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/51 "2003-05-30T13:53:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sqube \* > \*\*I’m kinda hard-pressed to see where you didn’t make a sweeping generalization about all smokers here. \*\* I did make a generalization, but it wasn’t that all smokers don’t care about litter. The generalization was that smokers don’t care about their health, their odor, the effect their smoking has on others, or wasting money. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/52 "2003-05-30T14:04:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zwaldd \* > \*\* The generalization was that smokers don’t care about their health, their odor, the effect their smoking has on others, or wasting money. \*\* You know what, **zwaldd** : I do care about all those things. Your post illustrates a profound ignorance about smoking. Hint: We’re addicts. ---
**Author:** ![UnwrittenNocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6de8d8/32.png) [@UnwrittenNocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwrittenNocturne)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/53 "2003-05-30T14:27:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zwaldd \* > \*\*I did make a generalization, but it wasn’t that all smokers don’t care about litter. The generalization was that smokers don’t care about their health, their odor, the effect their smoking has on others, or wasting money. \*\* Guess what? It is **my** health. **My** (apparently non-existent acccording to non-smoking friends) odour. **My** money. As to other people. Well, read the posts other smokers have put here. most of us are fairly considerate about it. Frankly the only thing that ever gets my back up, and truly makes me want to blow smoke all over somebody, is the sort of rabid mad-dog anti-smoker who takes wild offense at me enjoying a cigarette somewhere within 100 miles of them. BTW, as to littering: I did a rough, and admittedly unscientific survey around the streets today. The worst litter was fast food wrappers, both in bulk and in per item quantity. Followed by soda containers. Then gum. Then butts. Then plastic bags (non fast food). What amazes me is all those people eating fast food, not caring about their health, the odour of the stuff, wasting money, the effect watching some of them eat in public has on others, the environmental impact of the fast food industry. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/54 "2003-05-30T14:31:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > **We’re addicts.** Understood. And IMO, addiction on its own is not necessarily consistent with littering. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/55 "2003-05-30T14:44:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zwaldd \* > \*\*Understood. And IMO, addiction on its own is not necessarily consistent with littering. \*\* Which, indeed, is what I said on page 1. All litterers might be described as ‘pigs’. Smokers and non-smokers alike. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/56 "2003-05-30T14:45:39Z")
Well, considering that the vast majority of smokers smoke _because_ they’re addicted, by your logic addiction would most certainly be consistent with littering. Why don’t you just admit your comment was out of line and be done with it? I also agree with **UnwrittenNocturne**. I never quite understood why strangers would come in with the whole “do you know how much money you’re wasting?!” Funny, I always thought that coming at a stranger negatively about what they do with their money was considered rude. I guess that kind of falls in with the whole “smokers aren’t really people, it’s okay to bash them, even to their faces” mentality that some of the most rabid anti-smokers have. I buy a pack of cigs every week, maybe week and a half. I smoke so lightly that some of my cigs will go stale before I make it through the pack. What do you spend $4 a week on? Ever buy your lunch? Buy coffee? I can almost gurantee that you spend more than that weekly. Considering I bring my lunch with me to work and don’t drink coffee (usually), I think I probably throw away _less_ money than many non-smokers. And considering that I _enjoy_ smoking, I don’t think of it as “throwing away money” I consider it spending a little bit of money to engage in something I enjoy doing. The more I write about it, the more I wonder how anyone could make the logical leap from “wasting money” to “not caring about littering” anyway. _shrug_ As for the other things on your little list, I’ve already addressed those in previous posts. My whole point is that even though I’ve provided arguments to disprove all or most of your “natural assumptions” about myself and what _I_ care about, because I’m a smoker, by _your_ logic, I would still not care about littering. Because I smoke, and therefore don’t care about the things you mentioned and automatically don’t care about littering. (I really wish I could think of a clearer way to say this, but it’s Friday). The moral of the story: don’t assume what people do care and do not care about based on a habit they engage in that has loose ties at best, to the subject. And certainly don’t draw any conclusions about something _else_ from that assumption. ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/57 "2003-05-30T15:20:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lezlers \* > \*\*Why don’t you just admit your comment was out of line and be done with it? \*\* Because it accurately reflects my prejudice towards smokers. ---
**Author:** ![UnwrittenNocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6de8d8/32.png) [@UnwrittenNocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwrittenNocturne)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/58 "2003-05-30T15:26:40Z")
So, and please feel free to clarify this for me as needed. **zwaldd** , you believe that your prejudice, which in essence is not really any different to any other prejudice, be it based on race, gender, fat content, ability to blow bubbles with washing-up liquid, qualifies you to make sweeping generalisations about individuals. In actual fact (and please, as I said, correct me if I am wrong), you are willing to use a single identifying feature about an individual (eg; smoking, having a large nose, whatever) as a justification for bias? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/59 "2003-05-30T16:04:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UnwrittenNocturne \* > \*\*you are willing to use a single identifying feature about an individual (eg; smoking, having a large nose, whatever) as a justification for bias? :rolleyes: \*\* Yes. I have no prejudices about nose size, though. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/60 "2003-05-30T17:02:35Z")
Well, at least **zwaldd** is admitting to his predjudices. :rolleyes: So, my comments about how I don’t fall into your assumptions as well as others on this thread haven’t done anything to change your mind? Then how can you possibly say that you didn’t mean everyone? You’re being VERY inconsistant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080.md?page=4)