# Are Cigarette Smokers Pigs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 28, 2003, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080 "2003-05-28T19:02:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/61 "2003-05-30T17:38:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > Smokers, unite: if we all puff together, we can blot out that wonder of the natural world with our stinking ordure! Sorry, not with you there. Those things are nasty. I think I’d rather light up and inhale a turd, but that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/62 "2003-05-30T17:54:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lezlers \* > \*\*You’re being VERY inconsistant. \*\* Quote two or more statements that I made that you think are inconsistent and I’ll address the inconsistency. ---
**Author:** ![greck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ab992/32.png) [@greck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greck)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/63 "2003-05-30T18:05:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UnwrittenNocturne \* > \*\*Guess what? It is **my** health. **My** (apparently non-existent acccording to non-smoking friends) odour. **My** money. > > BTW, as to littering: I did a rough, and admittedly unscientific survey around the streets today. The worst litter was fast food wrappers, both in bulk and in per item quantity. Followed by soda containers. Then gum. Then butts. Then plastic bags (non fast food). > > \*\* And if you could keep YOUR smoke out of MY air, we’d have no problem. And if people who eat fast food (as though this and smoking were mutually exclusive categories) did so 20 times a day or drank 20 sodas a day throwing the bottles out their car windows, it just might be worth a discussion. But even then, think about the effort involved in cleaning up a soda bottle or hamburger wrapper vs. picking up a cigarette butt. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/64 "2003-05-30T18:05:24Z")
You know what **zwaldd**? I guess you weren’t inconsistant. I’ll concede that. Judemental? Yes. Predjudiced? Yes. Unwilling to acknowledge statements made that go against that predjudice? Oh yeah. Jerkish? Most definately. Why won’t you address my and other smoker’s posts that go against your sweeping generalization? Why do you adamantly stand by it, while ignoring those comments? Your opinion is worthless if you refuse to defend it by any means other than repeating it over and over. Last time I checked, repeating something ad nausem doesn’t make it true. Willfully ignorant people really get under my skin. ---
**Author:** ![Alphagene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Alphagene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alphagene)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/65 "2003-05-30T18:47:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zwaldd \* > \*\*The generalization was that smokers don’t care about their health, their odor, the effect their smoking has on others, or wasting money. \*\* Then I assume you’re a teetotaler who doesn’t drive a car recreationally. Because drinking alcohol and crusing the open road to combat your mid-life crisis aren’t activities that are health-conscious, environmentally friendly, or sound investment strategies. It’s human nature to engage in self-destructive activity. Anything worth doing can kill you. Don’t get all high and mighty because a cigarette never touches your cherubic lips. That being said, littering streets with your butts is tacky. ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/66 "2003-05-30T19:27:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lezlers \* > **Why won’t you address my and other smoker’s posts that go against your sweeping generalization?** Your considerate behavior doesn’t negate my prejudice. Expecting smokers to be inconsiderate gives me one less thing to be angry about when they meet my expectations and one more thing to be happy about when they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/67 "2003-05-30T19:44:26Z")
But you still refuse to acknowledge that not _all_ smokers are inconsiderate, throw their money away, ect ect. Willfully ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/68 "2003-05-30T20:02:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lezlers \* > **But you still refuse to acknowledge that not _all_ smokers are inconsiderate, throw their money away, ect ect.** I said **Your considerate behavior**. I acknowleged it. Although IMO, anyone who pays for cigarettes or has higher health insurance rates for smoking is throwing their money away. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/69 "2003-05-30T20:17:41Z")
Hmm. I guess you’ve never spent a dime on anything not _totally_ necessary, then? Never go out to eat, never buy coffee, gum, candy, none of that. Oh you have? Looks like you’re throwing _your_ money away. Guess you don’t care about littering either. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![UnwrittenNocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6de8d8/32.png) [@UnwrittenNocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwrittenNocturne)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/70 "2003-05-30T20:26:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by greck \* > **And if you could keep YOUR smoke out of MY air, we’d have no problem.** I guess not. Nor would we if people would keep their deisel fumes out of my air, their garlic breath away from me, their bad choice of clothes out of my line of sight. guess what? Ain’t ging to happen any time soon. most smokers tend to be fairly considerate about that anyway. Things I do not like, I tend to avoid. What about you? ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/71 "2003-05-30T20:38:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lezlers \* > \*\*Hmm. I guess you’ve never spent a dime on anything not _totally_ necessary, then? Never go out to eat, never buy coffee, gum, candy, none of that. \*\* I consider money spent on cigs wasted because you’re paying to have a product do what your body would do on its own if you quit using the product. ---
**Author:** ![UnwrittenNocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6de8d8/32.png) [@UnwrittenNocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwrittenNocturne)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/72 "2003-05-30T20:47:36Z")
huh??? I smoke because I enjoy it. Simply that. I like the taste. The feeling it gives me. Same reason I drink wine ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/73 "2003-05-30T23:13:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*If there’s no ashtray _reasonably_ near the entrance, some people are going to toss their butts on the ground. > > So having more ashtrays, and designated smoking areas, for that matter, would benefit both smokers (a place to smoke and dispose of it) and everybody else (less litter). \*\* I’m on record stating that I think that the only appropriate designated smoking area is the smoker’s private property (home, car, etc.) with windows closed, but even granting that there are outdoor places where smoking might be allowed, ashtrays nearer to entrances are bad for one very obvious reason. **If there are ashtrays near the entrances, that’s where the smokers will congregate, which means that everyone wanting to enter or exit the building will have to walk through a gauntlet of smoke.** Non-smokers don’t like to walk through gauntlets of smoke. Some people would be extremely adversely affected by doing so. As a consquence, responsive, responsible property owners have moved smoking as far away from necessary public traffic areas as possible, and that’s how it should be. The answer to solving the cigarette butt litter problem is personal responsibility, by smokers. You can find a proper receptacle for your butt. You’re the one who chose to smoke, it’s not anyone’s job to make the proper disposal of your waste more convenient for you. Just keep the things to yourselves and quit whining about the lack of receptacles, yada yada. You know that. Suck it up and deal with it. Or, for your benefit and society’s, drop your filthy habit. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/74 "2003-05-31T00:15:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tlw \* > \*\*I’m on record stating that I think that the only appropriate designated smoking area is the smoker’s private property (home, car, etc.) with windows closed, but even granting that there are outdoor places where smoking might be allowed, ashtrays nearer to entrances are bad for one very obvious reason. > > **If there are ashtrays near the entrances, that’s where the smokers will congregate, which means that everyone wanting to enter or exit the building will have to walk through a gauntlet of smoke.** > > Non-smokers don’t like to walk through gauntlets of smoke. Some people would be extremely adversely affected by doing so. As a consquence, responsive, responsible property owners have moved smoking as far away from necessary public traffic areas as possible, and that’s how it should be.\*\* Notice I said **reasonably** close to the entrances, not **at** the entrances, for precisely the reason you stated. (The so-called gauntlet-effect) At my office building, the ashtrays, and thus the smoking areas, are away from the entrances, as in, I dunno, 100-150 ft away, around the corner, and behind a brick wall. You know, so that the non-smokers don’t have to walk through the smoke, nor even SEE the evil smokers. Same thing with a large outdoor amusement park I visited last summer. The ashtrays/smoking areas were always well away from the rides, food stands, shops, and walkways. It became a game finding new ones, they were so well hidden. What is wrong with a little accomodation? Or is it enough to annoy you that people smoke at all? > [@](#): > > **The answer to solving the cigarette butt litter problem is personal responsibility, by smokers. You can find a proper receptacle for your butt. You’re the one who chose to smoke, it’s not anyone’s job to make the proper disposal of your waste more convenient for you. Just keep the things to yourselves and quit whining about the lack of receptacles, yada yada. You know that. Suck it up and deal with it.** The answer to solving the litter problem is **personal responsibility** by everyone. How about if we get rid of all trash receptacles in public places? Streets, parks, beaches, parking lots, train platforms, what have you. You have a fast food container/gum wrapper/coke can/old newspaper/broken umbrella to dispose of? You can find a proper receptacle for your trash. You’re the one who chose to eat/drink/read/cover yourself, it’s not anyone’s job to make the proper disposal of your waste more convenient for you. Just keep your trash to yourself. Quit whining. Suck it up and deal with it. > [@](#): > > \*\*Or, for your benefit and society’s, drop your filthy habit. \*\* It’s pretty rude, IMHO, to call other people’s personal habits “filthy”. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/75 "2003-05-31T01:51:35Z")
That’s the thing though, smokers are the one group it’s okay to bash to their faces (or as close as you can get to it on a message board). People don’t consider it rude to insult smokers, call their habit filthy, call them rude when they don’t even know them, ect ect. Thanks for proving my point, **tlw**. You know what I think is filthy? When people bite their nails. Drives me banannas. But do I tell someone who engages in this habit to “drop their filthy habit?” No. Because that would be _rude_ see? Let me repeat this oh-so important point. _Smoking is legal_. Because it is legal, you’ve got no right to harrass the people that do it, as long as they are in designated smoking areas and disposing of their trash appropriately. Period. You think it’s filthy? Fine. I couldn’t care less. Keep it to yourself though because I don’t give a shit about your opinion. Especially when you’re rude in giving it. Oh, and **zwaldd**? Caffeine does to your body what it would do naturally if you didn’t consume it. You wouldn’t get caffeine headaches if you didn’t drink caffiene. So by your logic, that would also be a waste of money. You drink coffee? ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/76 "2003-05-31T04:05:07Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by lezlers \* > \*\* You drink coffee?_\* Yes. ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/77 "2003-05-31T05:14:48Z")
**Lezlers** , I’m about to the point where I could give a durn if smokers think my _opinion_ of their habit is rude. In fact, I think I’m just about entitled to share one opinion in exchange for every lung full of smoke I am forced to inhale while trying to walk down the street with my child, get to the restroom in a restaurant or get in and out of public buildings where the “XX ft. away from the entrance” rule isn’t enforced or when that location is still right in the path that people will use when trying to approach the doors. But let’s be fair about the word you apparently object to: filthy. But let’s break it down. Filth, by definition, is any foul or dirty matter or disgusting garbage – that’s right from [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com). Now, not too many people, especially non-smokers, would disagree with my assessment that cigarette smoke is foul. It leaves behind a residue – you’ve seen it as the dingy brown tinge on a smoker’s fingers. It’s also on their teeth, and in their clothing. And when they smoke in their cars, its in the upholstery. If they smoke in their homes, it is in and on everything. I recently purchased a used laptop on Ebay. As soon as I opened the box, I knew that the previous owner had been a smoker or lived with one. The odor and residue was not only in the newspaper that was used as shipping insulation, it was all over the computer to the point that I could _feel_ and smell it on my hands after I used it – and this was after a week in a box, and presumably after it had been wiped off and neatened before shipping. Only several thorough ministrations with Lysol Wipes brought the computer to a state in which it could be used without the transfer of this substance. If that doesn’t constitute dirty, I’m not sure what does. And even for smokers – the conscientious ones, at least, who are responsible about disposal – cigarette butts lying around on the ground are most decidedly disgusting garbage. Foul dirty matter and disgusting garbage. In other words, filth. Cigarette smoking is a habit which creates filth. Perhaps I should’ve been more verbose and put it that way instead of calling it a filthy habit. Mea culpa. But the same could certainly be said of habitually unnecessary car driving, refusal to recycle, intentional and unnecessary use of disposable products and a how of other habits. And I decry them equally when necessary. I’m pretty sure that pleasure cruisers and trash makers would find my opinion rude as well. I’m fairly certain that I don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/78 "2003-05-31T05:56:00Z")
During my last visit to Yosemite National Park, I saw a workman (Park employee) cleaning up many cigarette butts right near [Gates of the Valley](http://www.yosemite.org/vryos/pages/views/gates.htm). Just imagine this—these people are in such a beautiful place, but are having such a “disconnect” between the beauty that they see and the ugliness that they are dropping on the ground. I just don’t get how they do this. I asked the workman if cigarette butts were a significant problem. “Oh boy”, he said. “I keep on saying—just let me put a bucket underneath their chins, so they can put the butts there. I have never seen such a thing.” I think that’s a grand idea. Just make any smoker who cannot see that butts are litter wear a bucket under their head. Yes, other types of litter are equally bad (or worse, if the litter is bigger and/or deposited more frequently). The thing is, I think a lot of these “sloppy” smokers (and I know that some aren’t) would never _dream_ of dumping a used candy wrapper or empty paper cup on the ground, because they’d identify that as “litter”. But in their brains, butts don’t register as “litter”. A few weeks ago at work a coworker (a smoker) told me of another smoker who _insisted_ on walking a little distance to where the ashtray was (OK, it was really just a grungy coffee cup) to deposit his butt. She thought he was silly. She laughed as she said, "I told him he could just dump the butt up here in front (where there is no grungy coffee cup) but he wouldn’t do it. He _insisted_ on going back and putting it in the ashtray. (Shaking her head and rolling her eyes.) :eek: My gosh. The disconnect is pretty strong, isn’t it? But, with all that said, NO, I don’t want to trash all smokers, YES, I know that some of you are very considerate and polite. NO, I don’t want to preach a sermon to you, you already know the perils of smoking and don’t need to hear from me. The littering of butts thing just astonishes me, though. I think the next time I am with a smoker who so carelessly flicks their butt, I will dig out some candy wrapper or just _find_ some bit of garbage somewhere, and toss it meaningfully on the ground too. When the butt-flicking smoker looks shocked, I’ll say, “What? YOU just did it, so it must be OK!” ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/79 "2003-05-31T14:48:29Z")
**Yosemitebabe** , thank you for providing a rational, un-judgemental view. It’s very much appreciated. I used to go to Yosemite all the time and can’t imagine anyone dropping their butts there. That’s disgusting. :mad: I think you’re right about some smokers just not considering butts litter. My X was one of those people who just didn’t consider a butt littering. He prided himself on being “Mr. Environmental” yet dropped butts wherever he went (he smoked a pack a day too, so that was a lot of butts). Of course, he also used to experience quite a show of rightous anger when hearing about any sort of animal cruelty (he considered zoo’s animal cruelty) but yet thought nothing of chowing down on a hamburger. :rolleyes: Some people just don’t “get it” I guess. He would also smoke when he was in line for stuff, even though I’d beg him not to. Smoking in line is the height of rudeness. If anyone doesn’t want to be around you, you’re not giving them a choice. I’m _so_ glad I dumped that idiot. And **zwaldd** , if you buy coffee, then in my opinion, you’re wasting money too. So take your coffee and shove it where the sun don’t shine. **Tlw** , I see you live in a place that still allows indoor smoking. I think that’s why I think it’s silly when people go on and on about being “forced” to inhale other peoples smoke. I live in California where smoking isn’t allowed hardly anywhere really. Outdoor patios? Nope. Bars? Nope. Inside anywhere? You’ve got to be _kidding_ me. Because I’ve lived here all my life, naturally now I think smoking anywhere indoors is gross. I’ve gotta be outside. And because I’m paranoid about “making anyone inhale my smoke” I’m always far away from any non-smokers (unless they make it a point to stand with me, in that case, I try to stand upwind). So now whenever anyone cries “F you for making me inhale your smoke!” I just think “when the hell would anyone get a _chance_ to inhale my smoke unless they’re making it a point to be standing in the smoking section??” Because here, smoking areas are so segregated that a non smoker kinda has to go out of their way to inhale smoke. That’s probably just this area though. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080/80 "2003-05-31T14:58:19Z")
**lezlers** > [@](#): > > So take your coffee and shove it where the sun don’t shine. [Moderator Hat ON] Do NOT tell anyone to shove anything up their ass outside the BBQ Pit, lezlers, unless you are explaining suppositories or giving sex tips. [Moderator Hat OFF] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-cigarette-smokers-pigs/178080.md?page=5)