Are circus elephants abused? How sensitive are elephants to pain?

It is a sanctuary where elephants are provided for. There are no trainers, but “Caretakers” in a PETAesque theory of providing for the elephants.
A caretaker was killed there by an elephant named Winkie five years ago.

This seems like a good place to link to the baby elephant born amid the flooding in Ayutthaya.

While it is possible, certainly, to train elephants to an extent without ‘punishment’, it’s not the way most circuses operate.

I know a few people who work in UK zoos with elephants, where it is common to train elephants to do certain things on demand to make veterinary inspections easier- like open mouth on demand, lift feet so they can be checked etc. It’s not so important that they do it first time every time, so it can be a bit more relaxed, and is done by offering treats in the same way you’d train your dog to fetch.

It can take quite a long time to get even this simple routine learned by this method; which would not be viable in a performing circus, where something the size and cost of an elephant would have to be trained up and reliable on show as soon as possible. I believe circus elephants are now banned in the UK, due to cruel treatment. We have very few circus animals at all now- horses are the only ones I’ve regularly seen.

Nothing left but horses and pretty girls, and it’s cheaper to see pretty girls at a bar. :slight_smile:

Obviously that little elephant is a bad-luck Jonah and must be killed immediately. Any human babies born during the flood too, come on, let’s not be speciesist.

Even so . . . elephants are easy. Humans have been using elephants for work and war for thousands of years. Elephants are trainable.

Ya wanna impress me? Train a rhinoceros.

Neither - it’s a place for elephants to live out their lives with other elephants without being abused, with adequate food and shelter, and protection from humans who would harm them. No hunting. No “farming”.

And here I thought the only elephant-related whooshes were in Dumbo.

A zebra would also be impressive.

I’ve seen horses and camels at circuses, but no elephants.

Anyone here read Water for Elephants? It talks about the traditional treatment of circus elephants.

I saw a performing hippopotamus at the Barnum & Bailey Circus once – but never a rhinoceros.

BTW, why are there still working elephants in Asia? I would’ve thought that by now that they would have been replaced, by machinery even Third World countries can generally afford. I mean, even in India or China or Indochina, who gets around on horses any more?

WAG: elephants handle rough or muddy terrain and mountains/jungles a lot better than trucks, and feed is easier to come by than gasoline.

In the case of Thailand, logging was banned 20 years ago. The problem is elephants live a long time and some families have owned elephants for a few generations, so they are trying to make a living and pay for all the food the elephants eat. So they’re willing to take the risk of breaking the law by logging or taking them across the border into Burma, and they also create the risk the elephants will be injured while they’re working or step on a landmine and get crippled or killed. When they don’t do that, they’ll sometimes try to train the elephants to perform, which is less than ideal because elephants are classified as livestock and treated accordingly - so not everyone understands the cruelty involved. Street begging is also illegal, although I’m not sure the laws are fully enforced- but it means these people hide their elephants on the outskirts of the city or in dumps and the elephants don’t get enough to eat.

Impoceros!

Why? Forest conservation?

. . . That is the first story I have ever read that involves hiding an elephant and is not funny. :frowning:

Yes. Something like 50 or 60 percent of the forests had been cut down by that point, which I believe was making the floods a lot worse in addition to all the other effects you would expect from mass deforestation. Forests are also the preferred habitat for elephants, so it was bad for them as well.

It’s pretty terrible. I can appreciate that it’s very difficult to care for elephants because they are basically always eating, but the street begging is awful. The elephants don’t get enough to eat and they’re trying to make do with rotten food during the day, and at night they’re out in the cities, which is a terrible environment for an animal with sensitive hearing. Between the logging, street begging, and even the performing, there are not a lot of good options for elephants. Even giving rides is pretty bad because their backs are not meant to support a lot of weight.

Which likely also means they’re drunk. When a ten-ton animal gets drunk, the results are usually not pretty.

If they’re eating fermented fruit, sure. If they’re just eating whatever rotten food is left in everybody’s garbage, they may or may not get drunk but they could certainly get sick.

They learn to go after a villages liquor supply, another reason villagers sometimes attempt to kill them.

I worked in the circus at one time, and although I wasn’t involved directly with animals I did spend some time around them and the trainers. Having read the linked article about Scylla training horses, I’d say there are a lot of similarities.

An elephant isn’t going to do something unless it agrees to. While it seems to be true that some abuse has occurred in circuses, I have a hard time believing that it’s the norm. In my experience, it was unheard of. The trainers felt there was no way to beat / abuse these animals into cooperating because the animal would simply kill them. Are you really going systematically to abuse an elephant or tiger and then lock yourself into a cage with them every night? You would never survive.

There’s also the fact that these animals are expensive and represent the performer’s livelihood. I’ve never met a trainer who was eager to mistreat them.

That being said, there are two issues here:

  1. Some training methods can look harsh, but probably aren’t. I think this is similar to Scylla’s article in which he uses a riding crop. I wouldn’t enjoy watching a horse get repeatedly whacked with one, but it doesn’t do the animal great harm either.

I don’t have an opinion on the use of electrical prods with elephants because I don’t know enough about them. It could be the same thing as the crop to a horse, or it might not. I don’t have enough information. I think the bullhook is similar to the crop, and doesn’t cause much harm.

I’ve seen incredible acts of trust between elephants and people, like elephants standing still and allowing a crowd of people with children to gather around and touch it. I have a really hard time believing that can be accomplished through mistreatment. Rather, the training I’ve seen was usually cooperative with the animal. Again, if a ten ton animal really doesn’t want to do something, it probably won’t.

  1. There are assholes in the world, and some work in circuses. The guy in the video seems to be one of them. I never ran into anyone like that during my time in the circus, for what it’s worth.

I’m open to new information on this, but as I say, my experience doesn’t hold up the claim that elephants and other animals are regularly abused in circuses. The animals I’ve seen were always well cared for and seemed happy to work with people.