# Are crows smarter than us hoo-mahns? I thought 'birdbrain' meant dumb **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 27, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-crows-smarter-than-us-hoo-mahns-i-thought-birdbrain-meant-dumb/600977 "2011-10-27T16:02:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-crows-smarter-than-us-hoo-mahns-i-thought-birdbrain-meant-dumb/600977/21 "2014-02-13T15:39:20Z")
Bumped to show another video of a clever crow: [- YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz7WKiC4SpY) ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-crows-smarter-than-us-hoo-mahns-i-thought-birdbrain-meant-dumb/600977/22 "2014-02-13T16:18:06Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > My understanding is that calling someone a “birdbrain” is suggesting that he has a brain the size of a bird’s. While a brain of that size is adequate for a bird, it’s woefully inadequate for a human. “Now we’ve taken this theory one stage further. If we increase the size of the penguin until it is the same height as the man and then compare the relative brain sizes, we now find that the penguin’s brain is still smaller. But, and this is the point, it is larger than it was.” ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-crows-smarter-than-us-hoo-mahns-i-thought-birdbrain-meant-dumb/600977/23 "2014-02-13T17:18:13Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Bumped to show another video of a clever crow: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz7WKiC4SpY](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz7WKiC4SpY) [HuffPost article background on this video](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/06/crow-smartest-bird_n_4738171.html). The moment I saw this old thread pop up today I knew it was because of the BBC video. ---
**Author:** ![mozchron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mozchron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mozchron)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-crows-smarter-than-us-hoo-mahns-i-thought-birdbrain-meant-dumb/600977/24 "2014-02-13T17:18:28Z")
When I was a grad student, my first project involved using mist nets to catch birds, which we banded, took a blood sample and released. We wanted to recapture them, take a repeat blood sample, and identify birds who tested negative for (a number of) viruses on the first bleed but who seroconverted on the second bleed. I have ZERO data on crows (and very little for corvids of any type) because although I routinely caught them the first time, they were NEVER foolish enough to be caught in the net a second time. Some other birds would fly right back into the net after being released. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-crows-smarter-than-us-hoo-mahns-i-thought-birdbrain-meant-dumb/600977/25 "2014-02-13T17:39:45Z")
> [@mozchron](#): > > I have ZERO data on crows (and very little for corvids of any type) because although I routinely caught them the first time, they were NEVER foolish enough to be caught in the net a second time. Suffice to say you did not make music a second time at counting crows? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-crows-smarter-than-us-hoo-mahns-i-thought-birdbrain-meant-dumb/600977/26 "2014-02-13T18:29:03Z")
That video with the 8-step puzzle would have been a lot more impressive if the researcher weren’t there in the cage with the crow. As it is, we have to ask whether the crow was figuring out the puzzle on its own, or Clever Hans-ing it. Though admittedly, Clever Hans is also impressive, just in a different way. ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-crows-smarter-than-us-hoo-mahns-i-thought-birdbrain-meant-dumb/600977/27 "2014-02-13T18:47:29Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Scientists have been trying to figure out if crows are more intelligent than we are, but they always refuse to complete any IQ tests we give them! Dolphins too. [Study: Dolphins Not So Intelligent On Land](http://www.theonion.com/articles/study-dolphins-not-so-intelligent-on-land,1896/) ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-crows-smarter-than-us-hoo-mahns-i-thought-birdbrain-meant-dumb/600977/28 "2014-02-13T19:38:12Z")
> [@heathen\_earthling](#): > > Is there any reason to believe crows are less intelligent than humans? Or more intelligent? There’s no baseline for comparing intelligence between species, since it’s impossible for us to divine what actually goes on inside an animal’s mind. (Heck, even the human mind itself is practically impenetrable.) However, within the Aves clade, they are among the most intelligent of all birds – even smarter than hawks and other raptors, which are actually quite dumb by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-crows-smarter-than-us-hoo-mahns-i-thought-birdbrain-meant-dumb/600977/29 "2014-02-13T19:42:29Z")
I heard a piece on blackbirds on NPR a few years ago. I searched for it but couldn’t find it. NPR mentioned that blackbirds (crows?) have been seen to participate in a funeral of a fellow bird. I thought it very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-crows-smarter-than-us-hoo-mahns-i-thought-birdbrain-meant-dumb/600977/30 "2014-02-13T21:56:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > _Some_ birds are idiots. A chicken, for instance, is the one thing in the world stupider than a sheep (rocks are the next step up, then cows). The corvids are not in that category. According to this, [chickens are, arguably, comparable in smarts to dolphins](http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/02/02/sorry-dolphins-aren-uniquely-intelligent/woQ8CE0S7XJKYjC6kDQh5J/story.html?camp=id) (although, admittedly, the main burden of the piece is that dolphins are not nearly as smart as many people like to imagine). ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-crows-smarter-than-us-hoo-mahns-i-thought-birdbrain-meant-dumb/600977/31 "2014-02-14T00:51:37Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > According to this, [chickens are, arguably, comparable in smarts to dolphins](http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/02/02/sorry-dolphins-aren-uniquely-intelligent/woQ8CE0S7XJKYjC6kDQh5J/story.html?camp=id) (although, admittedly, the main burden of the piece is that dolphins are not nearly as smart as many people like to imagine). I get a pay wall with that link. That BBC crow video was amazing. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-crows-smarter-than-us-hoo-mahns-i-thought-birdbrain-meant-dumb/600977/32 "2014-02-14T01:17:28Z")
Here’s a crow who [enjoys sledding down a roof](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k1aoLAMRMc). ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-crows-smarter-than-us-hoo-mahns-i-thought-birdbrain-meant-dumb/600977/33 "2014-02-14T01:28:09Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > They may seem tame to you, but just watch if you take 'em to a crowbar. [This ain’t no crow bar. THIS is a crow bar!](http://www.metalinjection.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/CrowBar-300x205.jpg) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-crows-smarter-than-us-hoo-mahns-i-thought-birdbrain-meant-dumb/600977.md?page=1)