# Are Democrats Risking Another 2004 because of the "Radical Islamic terrorism" issue? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 6, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614 "2015-12-06T14:47:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614/41 "2015-12-08T17:10:18Z")
Not that part. I mean the part where somebody actually gives one microgram of a shit about flag size. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614/42 "2015-12-08T17:21:58Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > no its not. Just look at pictures of her rallies compared with Obama’s. The American flag is much more present at hers than his. Barack Obama has four A’s (for AMERICA!) in his name. Hillary Clinton only has one. Add middle names, and she still only has two to his four. That’s 200%-400% more AMERICANNESS in Obama’s name than Hillary’s. In fact, off the top of my head, I can’t think of a more pro-American president (as measured by number of A’s in their name) than Obama. Even Lincoln only had three! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614/43 "2015-12-08T17:25:10Z")
Let’s not forget: Obama is a Kenyan immigrant! He _chose_ us! Hillary just _happened_ to be born here. And Obama plays basketball, which is the most American sport there is if you count Canada. What does Hillary play, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614/44 "2015-12-08T17:31:32Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > … this is a joke, right? We must always vote for the candidate with the most and largest flags at their events. That way we know they are most likely to want us, the Americans, to “win.” It’s not rocket surgery. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614/45 "2015-12-08T18:06:07Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > We must always vote for the candidate with the most and largest flags at their events. That way we know they are most likely to want us, the Americans, to “win.” It’s not rocket surgery. Stuff and nonsense. The size and number of flags at the event is totally irrelevant. It’s entirely down to the size of the flag pin on the candidate’s lapel. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614/46 "2015-12-08T18:26:53Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > We must always vote for the candidate with the most and largest flags at their events. That way we know they are most likely to want us, the Americans, to “win.” It’s not rocket surgery. [Barack Obama](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/low_concept/2008/06/the_truth_about_barack_obama.html) wears a FLAG PIN at all times. Even in the shower. Barack Obama has the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE tattooed on his stomach. It’s upside-down, so he can read it while doing sit-ups. Barack Obama goes to church every morning. He goes to church every afternoon. He goes to church every evening. He is IN CHURCH RIGHT NOW. Barack Obama’s skin is the color of AMERICAN SOIL. Barack Obama buys AMERICAN STUFF. He owns a FORD, a BASEBALL TEAM, and a COMPUTER HE BUILT HIMSELF FROM AMERICAN PARTS. He travels mostly by FORKLIFT. Barack Obama says that Americans cling to GUNS and RELIGION because they are AWESOME. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614/47 "2015-12-08T18:29:25Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Barack Obama buys AMERICAN STUFF. He owns a FORD, a BASEBALL TEAM, and a COMPUTER HE BUILT HIMSELF FROM AMERICAN PARTS. But for god’s sake, he never builds CLOCKS. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614/48 "2015-12-08T18:42:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Not that part. I mean the part where somebody actually gives one microgram of a shit about flag size. symbols matter, and yes, so do words. As does patriotism. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614/49 "2015-12-08T18:43:21Z")
So you were serious. God help us all. > [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > [Barack Obama](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/low_concept/2008/06/the_truth_about_barack_obama.html) wears a FLAG PIN at all times. Even in the shower. Oh God, that’s hilarious. Especially the forklift one. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614/50 "2015-12-08T18:45:40Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > symbols matter, and yes, so do words. As does patriotism. Letters and the alphabet matters too, and are at least as good an indicator of patriotism as flag prominence. Why are you so dismissive of the letters? What are you trying to hide? Is it because Hillary Clinton has two I’s (for ISIS), while Barack Obama has none? I demand a response to alphabet-gate! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614/51 "2015-12-08T18:48:16Z")
B **a** r **a** ck Ob **a** m **a** is 33% more AMERICAN than all other Presidents – even **A** br **a** h **a** m Lincoln is less AMERICAN than Ob **a** m **a**! And L **i** ncoln is one “I” more ISIS-Y than Obama. Therefore Obama = AMERICA. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614/52 "2015-12-08T18:51:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It was pretty much unanimous among Democratic officeholders and major Democratic figures from 2003-2008 that we didn’t have enough troops and there was no plan. That’s a pretty specific critique of the Iraq war. […] the inference is pretty strong that more troops and better planning would have succeeded in Iraq My take is: (1) Waging a military campaign without (A) a clear definition of the victory we want to achieve, and (B) enough troops and resources committed to achieve it, is a bad idea. (2) Some victories simply aren’t achievable, or would only be achievable with a greater and longer commitment than the American people would ever be willing to accept. I think it’s fair to criticize the Iraq War for not having a clear definition of what it meant to achieve victory. I also think it may be the case that if we did actually pin down what we were trying to achieve, it would be clear that it was unachievable or at least far too costly. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614/53 "2015-12-08T20:05:20Z")
> [@](#): > > …I demand a response to alphabet-gate! We could do without “Q”, which is just an “O” with a penis. Its unseemly implications and tone. It does nothing that “KW” couldn’t do just as well, and they are angular and masculine. _Woody_ letters, much to be preferred. But we are probably stuck with “O”, but vowels don’t count. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614/54 "2015-12-08T20:09:30Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > …I think it’s fair to criticize the Iraq War for not having a clear definition of what it meant to achieve victory… But we did! We were going to force Saddam to give up his weapons of mass destruction. Saddam is dead, and he has no weapons of mass destruction. Mission accomplished. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614/55 "2015-12-08T20:09:30Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > symbols matter, and yes, so do words. As does patriotism. But do flags = patriotism? Can one outpatriot someone else with more flags? Or has my wife been lying to me all this time and it’s size that really matters? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614/56 "2015-12-08T20:14:04Z")
Hillary Rodham Clinton. Twenty letters. Radical Islamic Terror. Twenty letters. Donald J. Trump. Twelve letters. America Great. Twelve letters. 9/11. Times two. spoilerx2=1.6.Twenty letters divided by twelve letters. ALSO EQUALS 1.6 CONNECT THE DOTS!!![/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614/57 "2015-12-09T03:38:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It was pretty much unanimous among Democratic officeholders and major Democratic figures from 2003-2008 that we didn’t have enough troops and there was no plan. That’s a pretty specific critique of the Iraq war. Now I realize we’re not supposed to hold Democrats responsible for the things they say(as Obama would say, it’s “campaign talk”), but the inference is pretty strong that more troops and better planning would have succeeded in Iraq, and given how things went once there actually was a plan and more troops, there’s a lot of evidence those critiques were true. However, your inference is based on a desire to see GWB in a favorable light. Your inference was never actually implied by the majority of Democrats. The Democratic position was that the war was a stupid idea and that it was exacerbated by the Bush administration having no plan and by the White House overriding the observations of the Joint Chiefs of Staff regarding the number of troops needed. It was not “_We’d have won with better planning and more troops._” It was “_It was a stupid idea and not only was it a bad idea but its proponents did not even invest the effort to try to delay its inevitable failure._” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614/58 "2015-12-09T03:41:37Z")
I do not know whether this thread could (or should) be saved, but the attempts at humor are not promoting a serious discussion. Enough with the flag sizes and flag pins and pseudo-numerological name games. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614/59 "2015-12-09T04:52:57Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > However, your inference is based on a desire to see GWB in a favorable light. Your inference was never actually implied by the majority of Democrats. The Democratic position was that the war was a stupid idea and that it was exacerbated by the Bush administration having no plan and by the White House overriding the observations of the Joint Chiefs of Staff regarding the number of troops needed. > > It was not “_We’d have won with better planning and more troops._” It was “_It was a stupid idea and not only was it a bad idea but its proponents did not even invest the effort to try to delay its inevitable failure._” Or, Democrats just decided they needed to seem tough since they weren’t actually in power and wanted to get in power, thus all the rhetoric about more troops, concentrating on Afghanistan, and a special effort to recruit veterans to run for Congress. Pretty much all of that was abandoned starting Jan. 2009. So now the Democrats are back to where they were pre-Reagan: weak on national security and complaining that it’s complicated and Republicans are promising simplistic and dangerous solutions. I’m not sure that’s going to work any better than it did the last time. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614/60 "2015-12-09T05:07:18Z")
meh You drew a false conclusion about the actual statements of various Democrats. I corrected the spin you placed on it. I am not going to hijack this thread with a back-and-forth exchange of opinions about the speculated motives of the two parties for a period of 12 years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-democrats-risking-another-2004-because-of-the-radical-islamic-terrorism-issue/739614.md?page=4)