# Are Dems more into Dirt Tricks than Gops? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 15, 2004, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401 "2004-10-15T17:02:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401/1 "2004-10-15T17:02:13Z")
Someone on a board I frequent is insisting that the Democratic party is consistently the worst offender when it comes to “dirty tricks” regarding election politics. He has a long list of such dirty tricks by the Democrats. I wish I knew enough eletoral-political history to be able to say whether he’s wrong or not. I suspect he’s wrong–I feel pretty sure that Republicans are at least as “dirty” as Democrats in this respect. But I just can’t say I _know_ this because I don’t have any real command of the facts. I’ve searched the internet some, but can’t find any good sites w/ clear information on this topic. Anyone here able/willing to help? Here is one of the lists of Democrat dirty tricks the guy posted, to give you an idea of the kinds of things he’s talking about: 2000 Bush DWI (was that 6 days before the election?) 2000 Voter obstruction (keep those military votes outa here!) 2000 Voter Fraud (registering felons in florida and elsewhere) 2000 Voter Fraud (bribing street people with cartons of cigarettes) 2000 Election Manipulation (an electoral system designed and run by flordia democrats failed miserably so they had to change the parameters of recounts over and over and over and over and they still lost by every reliable measure) 2004 The Race Card (Kerry pulled it out prematurely this week, infering that he’s heard voter obstruction will occur based on race) Now, I also think some of the above items are debatable as to whether they really happened the way he described, and it would be interesting to be able to refute him on that line as well. But mostly I’m just interested in being able to match his lists w/ equally sized lists of my own, if possible. I’ll reference this site and this post if anyone is able to come up w/ any info, so it won’t be like I’ll be claiming your work as my own. So… any help? Thanks. -Kris ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401/2 "2004-10-15T17:26:07Z")
The problem is that these things are almost impossible to quantify. Of all the “dirty tricks”, how many are ever reported in the news or investigated by the government? How do you compare Democratic dirty trick #309 to Republican dirty trick #287? One may affect 50 votes and the other may affect 5,000 votes. As a general rule, I assume that all parties are equally susceptible to taking any advantage they can, whether or not its legal or moral. The differences are in tactics, due to the types of people who belong to the parties, and the types of people who tend to vote for that party’s candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401/3 "2004-10-15T17:34:35Z")
Give me a break. Republicans are known for taking their gloves off at the first opportunity, and I don’t really fault them for it. Negative attacks can win elections better than the “poor me, I’ve been attacked unfairly” of too many Democrats. However, some of these attacks, in my view, really cross the line. Let me throw a short list of GOP dirty tricks: Watergate. 'Nuff said. Bush allegedly did a push-poll in SC in 2000 that asked voters if “the fact that John McCain has a black baby out of wedlock would influence their vote.” (And yes, McCain has an **adopted Indian** baby. [Cite.](http://www.ronsuskind.com/newsite/articles/archives/000032.html) In 1990, Jesse Helms played the infamous “Hands” ad on North Carolina TV stations. It featured a pair of white hands crumpling up a rejection letter, while the voice over talks about how people are losing jobs because they are being given to minorities. That ad did in Helms’ black opponent. [Video.](http://www.pbs.org/30secondcandidate/text/timeline/years/1990_c.html) 1988, Willie Horton. Somewhat less blatantly racist than “Hands,” but not by much. And it is pretty clear that voter fraud was rampant in 2000. If that guy thinks that it was all done by the Dems, Rush Limbaugh must have a lock on his brain and there’s no use arguing with him. ---
**Author:** ![Dignan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@Dignan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dignan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401/4 "2004-10-15T17:38:57Z")
If you’re looking for a list of Republican dirty tricks, check out Al Franken’s book, Lies and The Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look At The Right. Karl Rove seems to have a penchant for questionable behavior when it comes to campaigning. I don’t know if it counts since it was friendly fire, so to speak, but during the 2000 South Carolina Republican primary “push polls” were used to suggest that John McCain illegitimately fathered a child with a black woman. It didn’t help matters that McCain and his wife adopted a little girl with dark skin (I don’t remember where the girl was from). The truth is that neither side can claim to have clean hands on this issue. Instances can be pointed to where something seemed “dirty” by partisans of either side. When this happens people can cry about how outraged they are, and how they would never resort to such petty tactics because they love the country so much more. To claim that one side is more or less guilty than the other is naive. This other poster was happy to run off a list of tactics used by Democrats while ignoring, or downplaying those on his own side. All that said, in my opinion Rove seems scuzzier than most on either side, but for all I know conservatives might love the guy. ---
**Author:** ![5que](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/3bc359/32.png) [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401/5 "2004-10-15T17:45:32Z")
I think historically, given many big-city machines were Democratic (Chicago, Milwaukee), you could make the case that in terms of voter fraud, the Democratics have had a pretty good track record. But in terms of dirty tricks, the Republicans became real good with Watergate and Karl Rove has moved them to a whole new level. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401/6 "2004-10-15T17:46:37Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > The problem is that these things are almost impossible to quantify. Of all the “dirty tricks”, how many are ever reported in the news or investigated by the government? How do you compare Democratic dirty trick #309 to Republican dirty trick #287? One may affect 50 votes and the other may affect 5,000 votes. As a general rule, I assume that all parties are equally susceptible to taking any advantage they can, whether or not its legal or moral. The differences are in tactics, due to the types of people who belong to the parties, and the types of people who tend to vote for that party’s candidates. I don’t think it’s even a matter of differences in tactics so much as which side is unlucky enough to be busted for Violation X. Neither side is clean in this, and I suspect the question to ponder is which side is actually covered in less slime. I’d say that it’s the Democrats, personally. Not becausae they’re Morally Superior (insert echo effect here), but because this generation of Republicans seems to be better at it. -Joe, waiting for this election to get REALLY nasty ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401/7 "2004-10-15T18:00:37Z")
I think that thorough the 1950s and 1960s, the Democrats were the champions at the dirty-tricks game. Who remembers the “For Shame!” Nixon Deed? But in the early 1970s, the Nixon White House took dirty tricks to a new level. Today, I’d say that the GOP probably has an edge on the Democrats in this area, but neither side has clean hands. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401/8 "2004-10-15T18:18:54Z")
Just off the top of my head, this week alone we’ve got …Republicans destroying voter registration forms from Democrats in [several](http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2421595&nav=168XRvNe) [states.](http://www.mailtribune.com/archive/2004/0921/local/stories/02local.htm) …Wisconsin Republican officials wanting to [print fewer ballots than voters.](http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/oct04/266144.asp) …a Republican operative in Nevada trying (and fails) to get [17,000 Democrats stricken from the voter rolls](http://www.columbiatribune.com/2004/Oct/20041014News010.asp) because they’re allegedly “inactive” (with no evidence provided, natch). …Floridan Republicans (still) trying to [prevent blacks from voting.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28107-2004Oct12.html) …a Republican-owned media conglomerate demanding its TV stations air a [90-minute anti-Kerry documentary](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22788-2004Oct10.html) in prime time, commercial-free – then denies it’s a political contribution. …a letter from 360-some-odd economists denouncing Kerry’s economic plans, while hiding the fact that [they’re all Republican shills.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=280819) …[Lynne Cheney attacking John Kerry](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=280962) for saying something everyone already knew, that her daughter Mary is a lesbian. And that’s just _this_ week. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401/9 "2004-10-15T18:29:41Z")
I think that the most reasonable response to this question is that you can’t quantify these dirty tricks and that there is no point trying to measure who is worse. The measurements will be different according to the person doing the measuring, so answering the question factually is impossible, but each individual can answer the question for oneself in one’s own mind according to one’s own scales of what is dirty and what is not. I was going to say that the _only_ reasonable answer is that it is impossible to quantify the dirty tricks, but Bricker’s response is certainly reasonable so I changed my mind. I agree with Bricker that both sides have their hands dirty, and I think it’s pointless to argue who is worse. It makes more sense to me if you want to compare two individual people, but trying to compare Democrats and Republicans as a whole and which are using dirtier tricks or more dirty tricks will get us nowhere apart from going in circles. Hell, we won’t even be able to agree on whether some specific deeds should be counted as being performed by Republicans or Democrats or neither. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401/10 "2004-10-15T18:35:50Z")
That last post from rjung is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. To the others who have responded in this post, I can tell my interlocuter “_of course_ republicans have done stuff like what you are talking about as well” as well and often as I’d like, but this is nothing like being able to _show_ that all his lists can _actually_ be matched by lists pointing out republican tricks. I really appreciate any effort anyone can put into either putting such lists in this thread, or giving me tips on how to construct such lists on my own w/out having to make a full time job out of it. BTW the more recent the better. For example, my interlocuter likes talking about the 2000 election in this regard. -Kris ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401/11 "2004-10-15T19:15:40Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > 2000 Voter obstruction (keep those military votes outa here!) [Here](http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/07/14/bush.overseas.ballots/) is an interesting story about that. Although this CNN story doesn’t note this fact, it was noted in another article that I can’t find right now (I think from the Washington Post) that Republicans actually did not object to the rejection of overseas military ballots in counties where Gore was more popular even while objecting to the rejection of ballots with exactly the same issues when they were in counties that Bush carried. > [@](#): > > 2000 Voter Fraud (registering felons in florida and elsewhere) The problem in Florida was actually having voters who were not felons scrubbed from the registration list. Since the list of ineligible voters had similar demographics to the felon population (because race was one of the things it went on in trying to match up people on the registration list and felons), a disproportionate number of those scrubbed were black. [Here](http://www.gregpalast.com/contents.htm) (if you click on Chapter 1) is more than you ever wanted to know about this from the (admittedly liberal) guy who investigated the story. [Here](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/04/politics/main520754.shtml) is a story about the settlement of the case brought against Florida by the NAACP. So, basically, the guy you are arguing with has this exactly backwards…These two were dirty Republican tricks. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401/12 "2004-10-15T19:34:25Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > 2000 Election Manipulation (an electoral system designed and run by flordia democrats failed miserably so they had to change the parameters of recounts over and over and over and over and they still lost by every reliable measure) I have no idea why he says the system was designed and run by Florida Democrats. Oh yeah…I should add that actually Bush wouldn’t have won by “every reliable measure”. Bush would have won under most scenarios if the recount that was underway at the time, which was only in selected counties, had gone ahead. However, if they had done a full statewide recount (which the Gore campaign did originally propose and the Bush campaign rejected…afterwhich Gore fought for recounts only in certain counties) then Gore would have won under at least some scenarios. (See [here](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12623-2001Nov11.html).) At any rate, no serious person doubts that Gore would also have won if that butterfly ballot problem hadn’t occurred in Palm Beach County. Admittedly, that was not fraud and was not something that could easily be fixed afterwards…and it was a ballot that some dumb Democratic person in that county signed off on. But, clearly Bush owes the Presidency to the confusion over that ballot. So, even if he won it in a legal sense, that is only because the intent of thousands of voters was not registered correctly in the final vote tally. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401/13 "2004-10-15T21:07:48Z")
Clearly, Kerry meant to say something like “blacks have taken the highest percentage of casualties” rather than “blacks provided the highest percentage of casualties”. The first sentence could still be a little ambiguous but would more obviously mean that if you look at the percentage of different racial or ethnic groups that have been killed (or injured?), it is highest for blacks. So, Kerry made a small misstatement over 30 years ago…Stop the presses! (By the way, if you watch the movie “Going Upriver” you will hear that Kerry had a lot on his mind that day…It is not surprising he’d make a misstatement. He was one of the main coordinators of the entire protest of Vietnam Veterans Against the War and he was literally running around doing other stuff until a few minutes before the meeting. Besides which, I think it was only earlier that week…maybe even the day before…that he found out he was going to testify at all. He was literally picked out by one of the sympathetic senators [Fulbright(?)] when that Senator went down to the Mall and met with the protest leaders because the Senator was particularly impressed by Kerry and thought he would be the best spokesperson for the cause.) ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401/14 "2004-10-15T21:29:42Z")
And, clearly that last post was meant for a different thread! Sorry! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401/15 "2004-10-15T21:35:52Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > 2000 Bush DWI (was that 6 days before the election?) > > 2000 Voter obstruction (keep those military votes outa here!) > > 2000 Voter Fraud (registering felons in florida and elsewhere) > > 2000 Voter Fraud (bribing street people with cartons of cigarettes) > > 2000 Election Manipulation (an electoral system designed and run by flordia democrats failed miserably so they had to change the parameters of recounts over and over and over and over and they still lost by every reliable measure) > > 2004 The Race Card (Kerry pulled it out prematurely this week, infering that he’s heard voter obstruction will occur based on race) Actually, if you look at the truth of each of these instances, you’ll find that none of them are dirty tricks at all. These characterizations are pretty self-serving and dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401/16 "2004-10-15T21:40:17Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > [Lynne Cheney attacking John Kerry](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=280962) for saying something everyone already knew, that her daughter Mary is a lesbian. I wouldn’t classify this as a dirty trick. Yes, it’s insincere posturing, but it isn’t an attempt to actually steal the election through dishonest means. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401/17 "2004-10-15T21:49:05Z")
The more I think about it, the whole premise of the person being described in the OP really is illegitimate. The poster that the OP describes is conflating two kinds of things – misleading things that people might say in order to cast aspersions on their opponents on the one hand and, on the other hand, “dirty tricks,” which are **actual attempts to subvert the political process**. Ironically, some of the examples given by the poster constitute infractions of the first category, which puts forth the notion that putting forth a statement characterizing an issue or an opponent’s position or actions is equivalent to subversion of the democratic process. It’s pretty sneaky. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401/18 "2004-10-15T22:07:13Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I wouldn’t classify this as a dirty trick. Yes, it’s insincere posturing, but it isn’t an attempt to actually steal the election through dishonest means. True, but it’s still a cheap shot, especially since the Cheneys didn’t make half as much of a fuss when Alan Keyes said worse about Mary. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401/19 "2004-10-15T23:21:08Z")
Anyone interested in this thread should also check out the current “Republican voter intimidation tactics” – [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=277079](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=277079) – where we have discussed the following Republican dirty tricks reported in the media so far this year: From _The Nation_ website, “The Daily Outrage” column, September 23, 2004 – [http://www.thenation.com/blogs/outrage?bid=13&pid=1844:](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/outrage?bid=13&pid=1844:) > [@](#): > > Is the battleground state of Michigan turning into the next Florida? Is Terry Lynn Land - the Michigan Secretary of State and Republican co-chair of the Bush-Cheney campaign - about to become the next Katherine Harris? > > In the last few weeks the Department of State’s branch offices in Ann Arbor and Battle Creek have distributed special notices to newly registered voters. “Registering today? Please be advised that you are not eligible to vote in the November 2, 2004 General Election.” Except the deadline to register for November’s election isn’t till October 4 and the fliers were meant for display only after October 5. > > Ann Arbor’s a progressive haven. And Battle Creek remains a hotly contested swing district with a one-term House Republican struggling for re-election. > > What’s going on here? > > It’s impossible to know right now whether the State’s offices deliberately mislead voters or made an honest mistake. But when State Senator Mark Schauer of Battle Creek asked Land’s legislative liaison what they were doing to remedy the problem, he received a stunning reply. > > Nothing. > > That prompted a fiery news conference and rebukes from seven state legislators on Tuesday. “This is part of a consistent pattern and practice of the Republican Party,” said Sen. Samuel Thomas of Detroit. Land reversed course and sent out a second notice informing new voters that their vote would count. But the damage may already have been done. Who knows how many of these voters will disregard the second notice? How many didn’t register after seeing the first flier? It’s still unclear how many of the 173 state branch offices followed suit. Land’s office insists only two. Schauer’s office already learned of a third mailing to Brighton, Michigan. > > There’s a precedent here. In July Republican state legislator John Pappageorge generated an outcry after labeling voter suppression the key to a Bush-Cheney victory. “If we do not suppress the Detroit vote, we’re going to have a tough time,” he told the Detroit Free Press, speaking of the eighty percent black and heavily Democratic city. From the _Daily Kos_, 9/27/04, [http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/27/112229/106:](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/27/112229/106:) > [@](#): > > When voter registration applications were maintained for years and used to verify signatures for petitions a requirement that the cards be on 80 lb. stock paper was adopted in Ohio, that law remains on the books. Since the applications are now scanned for preservation, there is no current need to continue that requirement. Today the only time that the heavy weight paper becomes an issue is when the new voter uses the application as a postcard. If heavy paper isn’t used for postcards the machinery jams at the Post Office. > > In the final days before the registration deadline Ken Blackwell, Ohio Secretary of State, has ordered the local election boards to send out new applications to applicants who have submitted registrations on the wrong paper. The ostensible reason for this order is to insure that the applications can make it through the postal system without being damaged. The Secretary didn’t point to any examples of voters who were stupid enough to mail regular weight paper as a postcard, nor did he cite examples of complaints from the Postal Service that this has been a problem. Never mind also that the applications he wants thrown out have already been delivered to the election boards safely. > > The local boards have been bombarded with applications and will be unable to comply with Blackwell’s order before the deadline to register to vote for this November’s election. In one county common sense has prevailed: > > In Cuyahoga County (Cleveland) the board of elections officials are ignoring the edict because they have already had an avalanche of new registrations submitted on forms printed on the newsprint in The Plain Dealer. > “We don’t have a micrometer at each desk to check the weight of the paper,” said Michael Vu, director of the Cuyahoga County election Board. > > Ironically, if an applicant downloaded the federal form onto paper that is not regulation, that application will be accepted in compliance with federal law. So in reality there is no substantive issue with the weight of the paper, the Secretary’s order is simply to create a roadblock to limit new registration. Secretary Blackwell is, by the way, a Republican. Meanwhile, Pubs in Nevada and Oregon are trying a new tactic: Get Dems to “register,” then destroy their registration forms after the deadline, so when election day comes it’s too late for them to remedy their status. From Nevada – : > [@](#): > > An employee of a private voter registration firm alleges that his bosses trashed registration forms filled out by Democratic voters because they only wanted to sign up Republican voters. > > The allegations have set off a political firestorm stretching from Las Vegas to Washington D.C., and beyond. > > As with everything else in this election year, it’s now become a political football being tossed between the two parties, with charges and countercharges, but at its core, there still remains the matter of registration forms that were ripped up and tossed in the trash. > > Who did it, and why? That’s what official agencies will try to determine. On Tuesday afternoon, Las Vegan Eric Russell and his girlfriend took a packet of documents to the Las Vegas FBI office but left before filing a formal complaint about what Russell says was a deliberate effort to disenfranchise local voters. > > Russell worked for a company called Voters Outreach of America, along with 300 other people. He says he got into a beef with the company over a pay dispute, and witnessed his bosses ripping up registration forms that had been filed by democrats. > > “They were thrown away in the trash. I grabbed them out,” said Eric Russell. One of those forms belonged to Daren Gray, who was shocked to learn that the re-registration form he filled out was never turned in. > > “I’m pretty mad, upset. I’m still gonna vote,” said Daren Gray. Russell doesn’t know how many democratic registrations were tossed in the trash but guesses the number could be very high since Voters Outreach of America operated in Las Vegas for more than two months. > > The FBI confirms that it is gathering information about the case but stopped short of calling it an investigation, saying it wants to talk to Russell again. Secretary of State Dean Heller issued a statement that his office is also taking a look, trying to figure out what if any laws might have been violated. > > Nevada Democrats came out swinging Wednesday. “Most disturbing is that Voter Outreach of America is being paid by the National Republican Party and we ask how can people have faith in government if a national party is involved in trickery in depriving people the right to vote,” said Clark County Commissioner Yvonne Atkinson Gates. > > The Republican National Committee acknowledges that it hired Voters Outreach of America to register voters, but in a statement said it had zero tolerance for any kind of fraud. > > Local party officials said there is no way the GOP would instruct the company to trash democratic registrations. However, similar problems have been alleged elsewhere. In Washoe County, the registrar says he too has turned over information to the FBI about Republican backed registration efforts. > > In Oregon, the same company that was operating here has been criticized for its tactics in signing up voters. There, it used the name America Votes, which is actually the name of a Democratic organization. > > Employees in Las Vegas say they too were told that the name of the company was America Votes. “They confused us with the name. They told us one thing and told the temp force something else. They told us America Votes,” Russell said. From Oregon – [http://www.oregonlive.com/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/base/news-8/1097647496301300.xml&storylist=orlocal:](http://www.oregonlive.com/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/base/news-8/1097647496301300.xml&storylist=orlocal:) > [@](#): > > PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — Secretary of State Bill Bradbury and Attorney General Hardy Myers plan to investigate allegations that a paid canvasser might have destroyed voter registration forms. > > “There have been allegations made that someone threw out some voter registration forms that had been submitted to them,” Bradbury told The Associated Press late Tuesday. “This is a violation of the law and I will meet with the attorney general in the morning to talk about what we can do to pursue this, and to make sure it doesn’t happen again.” > > Bradbury learned of the conduct from KGW-TV, which interviewed Mike Johnson, 20, a canvasser who said he was instructed to only accept Republican registration forms. He told the TV reporter that he “might” destroy forms turned in by Democrats. > > “I have never in my five years as secretary of state ever seen an allegation like the one that came up tonight — ever,” Bradbury said. “I mean, frankly, it just totally offends me that someone would take someone else’s registration and throw it out.” > > Bradbury said the law requires that groups registering voters submit forms no later than five days after they were filled out. He added that canvassers can’t turn away a voter because of his or her party affiliation. > > Rory Smith, a spokeswoman for the Republican Party in Oregon, said the young man interviewed by KGW-TV was not in their rolls. “We do not condone this type of behavior,” Smith told the Portland-based station. > > In Nevada earlier Tuesday, KLAS-TV, a CBS affiliate, interviewed an employee of a private voter registration organization who said hundreds — perhaps thousands — of Democratic registration forms had been destroyed. > > Eric Russell, a former Voters Outreach of America employee, told the TV station he had personally witnessed his supervisor take out Democratic registration forms from the pile and shred them. > > The company has been largely funded by the Republican National Committee, the station reported. > > A spokesman for the Las Vegas bureau of the FBI said he did not know if an investigation had been initiated. From South Dakota – [http://keloland.com/NewsDetail2817.cfm?Id=22,35221:](http://keloland.com/NewsDetail2817.cfm?Id=22,35221:) > [@](#): > > 10/11/2004 > Republicans Resign Over Questionable Absentee Ballot Applications > > Tonight six people connected with the South Dakota republican party have resigned over questions surrounding absentee ballot applications. > > The state director of the Republican Victory Program, Larry Russell is one of them, along with state republican party employee Eric Fahrendorf. Four independent contractors involved with the absentee ballot applications also resigned. They are Joe Alick, Nathan Mertz, Todd Schlekeway and Rachel Hoff. > > Hoff was the notary whose signature and seal appeared on many applications from KELOLAND college students. But several students say only men were there when they filled out the forms. > > Mount Marty student Cassandra Herout says, “All I know is they were gonna have the form notarized or audited or something before they sent it in. She was never present at all.” [http://www.argusleader.com/news/Fridayarticle1.shtml:](http://www.argusleader.com/news/Fridayarticle1.shtml:) > [@](#): > > Workers who left in ballot flap join Bush > > By TERRY WOSTER and DAVID KRANZ > Argus Leader > > published: 10/15/2004 > > Larry Russell, 3 others move to Ohio campaign > > South Dakota campaign official who resigned after questions arose over absentee-ballot applications will work in Ohio for the Bush-Cheney campaign, an internal Republican Party memo indicates. > > Larry Russell, who was chairman of the South Dakota Republican Party’s get-out-the-vote operation, resigned this week after questions were raised about the validity of some of the 1,400 absentee-ballot applications gathered, largely on college campuses, by the program Russell led. > > \ > > an internal Republican Party memo obtained by the Argus Leader said Russell would be going to Cleveland “to lead the ground operations” for President Bush and Vice President Cheney there. From West Virginia – [http://www.nbc25.com/news/default.asp?mode=shownews&id=2536:](http://www.nbc25.com/news/default.asp?mode=shownews&id=2536:) > [@](#): > > In a letter, Berkeley County clerk John Smalls cites calls from a cell phone were made to Eastern Panhandle democrats telling them that they were not registered to vote. The letter also said the calls informed democrats in some cases they wouldn’t be able to vote on Election Day. > > John Ott is the top election official in Jefferson County. “This is an improper act and they should notify the proper authorities,” he said. > > It’s considered an improper act because when upset citizens called the voter registration office to make sure they were registered to vote, indeed they were. So, who made these misleading calls? The Berkeley County Clerk’s Office traced the number voters gave as the source back to the Eastern Panhandle Republican Headquarters. We’ve had another recent thread: “Right-wingers trying to block college-student voter-registration drive” – [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5302769#post5302769](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5302769#post5302769) At the University of Arizona, the local Fox News team showed uo a campus voter registration drive of the Network of Feminist Student Activists and accused them of committing and tried to intimidate the organizers, telling them they might be committing a felony if they registered any student whose permanent address was not in Arizona. The really disturbing part is that the Pima County Recorder actually appeared on that Fox News report and backed up their position, declaring that students who do not intend to stay in Arizona indefinitely are not allowed to register to vote in Arizona. Which is not the law. In fact, any otherwise eligible voter who goes to register up to 29 days before the election, and plans to remain in Arizona for that 29 days, is allowed to register and vote. The Arizona Secretary of State and the Pima County Registar’s Office were forced to issue a retraction. Fox News ran a correction but placed all the blame for the error on the public authorities. From the website of the Feminist Majority Foundation – [http://www.feminist.org/news/newsbyte/uswirestory.asp?id=8629:](http://www.feminist.org/news/newsbyte/uswirestory.asp?id=8629:) > [@](#): > > The controversy arose August 31 when the Network of Feminist Student Activists organized Suffrage 2004: Get Out HER Vote, a massive student voter registration initiative aimed at registering and mobilizing young women on campus to vote. The Fox News reporter repeatedly questioned NFSA student leaders Kelly Kraus and Julianna Zuccaro whether they knew they might be committing an “unintentional felony” by registering out-of-state students. Kraus and Zucarro protested and challenged the accuracy of the Fox News reporter’s statements and were surprised to see the story run both that evening and the following morning. > > According to Arizona and national voting rights attorneys engaged by the Feminist Majority Foundation, not only has the United States Supreme Court (US v. Symm) expressly ruled that college communities must allow students to register to vote there, but the Voting Rights Act Amendments of 1970 specifically prohibit states from establishing “durational residency” requirements. I just came across an article in the October 2004 issue of The Progressive – “Bullies at the Voting Booth,” by Anne-Marie Cusac – [http://www.progressive.org/oct04/cusac1004.html](http://www.progressive.org/oct04/cusac1004.html) – which provides the best summary of this problem I’ve seen to date. The article looks closely at Republican voter-intimidation tactics being used this year in all the “swing states” – Arizona, Florida, Michigan, Missouri, Nevada, New Mexico, and South Dakota (SD is not a swing state in the presidential election, Bush has it sewn up, but there is a tightly contested Senate race – the Pubs are trying to unseat Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle). It’s well worth a read. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401/20 "2004-10-15T23:25:20Z")
Oh, and in answer to the OP – no, I don’t think Dems are more prone to dirty tricks than Pubs. Not this year, anyway. :mad: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dems-more-into-dirt-tricks-than-gops/269401.md?page=2)