# Are Department Store Electric Scooters Monopolized by Non Handicapped Obese People? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 20, 2008, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106 "2008-12-20T19:45:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/61 "2008-12-24T02:09:58Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s possible and I actively consider it in my observations. > > I’m not disagreeing that some of my observations would be wrong. I’m sure some of them are. But on average, I’m seeing a trend. Some of them are so obvious as to warrant action. I’ve had kids thrown out of a store for joyriding. If the trend continues I suspect that stores will eventually require some proof of need to ensure carts are available. Fair enough. And it would be sad but understandable if the stores _did_ start requiring proof. Before that happens, they’d best spend some energy cracking down on those damned Heely’s. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/62 "2008-12-24T02:53:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Obviously there are no absolutes but I stand by my observation that non-handicapped people are abusing the use of scooters in increasing numbers. Hopefully next time you need one it’s available. > [@Magiver](#): > > bullshit. I’ve noticed in increase in people using scooters who have no obvious handicap. That’s what the word observation means. Bullshit yourself. You said they were non-handicapped, and that they were abusing the the use of scooters, not that “they had no obvious handicap.” Since you are incapable of determining whether or not they have a actual handicap, your so-called observations are worthless. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/63 "2008-12-24T02:59:23Z")
[Moderating] Since we seem to now be beyond the realm of factual information, it is probably best to move this to GD from GQ. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/64 "2008-12-24T03:15:55Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Bullshit yourself. You said they were non-handicapped, and that they were abusing the the use of scooters, not that “they had no obvious handicap.” Since you are incapable of determining whether or not they have a actual handicap, your so-called observations are worthless. No, I’m not incapable of determining whether someone is or is not handicapped. Basic observation over a period of time can easily spot trends in use. I’ve already given an example of kids joyriding around. Did I know the kid driving it wasn’t handicapped? No. Was it obvious? Yes. It was obvious to other people in the store too because 3 other people complained to the manager. Your premise is that of intellectual absolutism where someone has to have absolute proof of something to voice an educated guess. Given your criteria there will be nothing stopping anyone from abusing the use of scooters. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/65 "2008-12-24T04:18:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Loaner vehicles are also much more in evidence. Battery-powered wheelchairs seem like a regular amenity in Long Island big-box stores and supermarkets. Statistics are difficult to come by, but some individual companies keep count. Faith Weiner, a Stop & Shop spokeswoman said that all 342 of its stores in its six-state Northeastern region have the scooters, and that 42 of the scooter-equipped stores are in Nassau and Suffolk. Lena Klofstad, a spokeswoman for Target, said the company’s nine stores on Long Island are all scooter equipped. > > A Home Depot spokesman, John Simley, said the scooters made their debut in some of its stores about five years ago. As new locations open now, he said, the scooters are typically included among the standard startup necessities, like the ubiquitous Home Depot forklifts. ‘‘It’s all about creating access and providing an option,’’ Mr. Simley said. > > Short of shooing away the obvious joyrider who is aiming to do wheelies, the big-box stores make no effort to decide who really needs to borrow one of their scooters and who is merely taking advantage of a convenience, Mr. Simley said. The only requirement, he said, is that a borrower leave a driver’s license or other piece of identification with customer service. [NYT.](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02E3DD133AF936A25751C0A9629C8B63&sec=health&spon=&pagewanted=all) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/66 "2008-12-24T05:20:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No, I’m not incapable of determining whether someone is or is not handicapped. Imagining something to be true does not make it true. You cannot. > [@](#): > > Basic observation over a period of time can easily spot trends in use. You have provided no evidence of such trends in use, aside from your own imagination. > [@](#): > > I’ve already given an example of kids joyriding around. Did I know the kid driving it wasn’t handicapped? No. Was it obvious? Yes. It was obvious to other people in the store too because 3 other people complained to the manager. Some kids joyriding around does not constitute an epidemic of abuse of the scooters by non-handicapped people as you allege. > [@](#): > > Your premise is that of intellectual absolutism where someone has to have absolute proof of something to voice an educated guess. Given your criteria there will be nothing stopping anyone from abusing the use of scooters. I suspect very much that your guess is due to your own preconceptions, rather than being in any way “educated.” ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/67 "2008-12-24T08:12:27Z")
I saw a guy on one of those scooters at a local mall-he was going in to the local buffet restuarant. I saw him pile his plate up with fried chicken, mashed potatos, gray, and… french fries. I guess he was able to use the scooter to his advantage, as he made multiple trips to the buffet. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/68 "2008-12-24T11:34:37Z")
Thank you, Ralph. I’m pretty sure the buffet did not supply the scooter. Therefore, it was one that he, personally, shelled out for. I’m going to wager a guess that he had some kind of need for it, then. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/69 "2008-12-24T14:15:08Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Thank you, Ralph. I’m pretty sure the buffet did not supply the scooter. Therefore, it was one that he, personally, shelled out for. > > I’m going to wager a guess that he had some kind of need for it, then. And even if he didn’t “need” it, if he shelled out for it, it’s his problem, not ours. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/70 "2008-12-24T14:33:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If in your opinion everybody on a scooter is handicapped based on your observations then we are in disagreement. I said no such thing, and I’ll thank you not to put words in my mouth. My point, and that of several other people here, is that YOU CANNOT JUDGE whether someone is handicapped just by looking at them. Disabilities CAN BE INVISIBLE to the casual observer. That’s why we pay doctors the big bucks to diagnose us, instead of random strangers on the street. You wanna gripe about kids goofing around on scooters, fine. Go start your own thread, and I’ll happily join in and back you up. That’s not what this discussion is about. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_Leigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@Jesse\_Leigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesse_Leigh)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/71 "2008-12-24T18:15:04Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > False… \*anyone \*can lose weight by making modifications to their diet. I do hope you’re not a physician. I am, and I specialize in this area. To put it simply and politely, you’re wrong. - Jesse. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_Leigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@Jesse\_Leigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesse_Leigh)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/72 "2008-12-24T18:20:51Z")
Fascinating! We have people here who believe in ‘lucky stars’ but not in God and Christ. I heard this was a forum where intelligent discussion took place. Note to self, be more careful to whom you listen from now on. - Jesse. ---
**Author:** ![bluecanary](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bluecanary/32/3614_2.png) [@bluecanary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluecanary)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/73 "2008-12-24T18:25:51Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > Fascinating! We have people here who believe in ‘lucky stars’ but not in God and Christ. Is this a whoosh? Have you really not come across the saying _“thank your lucky stars”_ before? Do you really not understand that it’s a figure of speech, not a statement of honestly-held beliefs in the supernatural? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/74 "2008-12-24T19:36:31Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > I heard this was a forum where intelligent discussion took place. Note to self, be more careful to whom you listen from now on. - Jesse. This works both ways, you know. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/75 "2008-12-24T21:08:32Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No, I’m not incapable of determining whether someone is or is not handicapped. Basic observation over a period of time can easily spot trends in use. I’ve already given an example of kids joyriding around. Did I know the kid driving it wasn’t handicapped? No. Was it obvious? Yes. It was obvious to other people in the store too because 3 other people complained to the manager. > > Your premise is that of intellectual absolutism where someone has to have absolute proof of something to voice an educated guess. Given your criteria there will be nothing stopping anyone from abusing the use of scooters. Yes, “some people” are incapable of making that determination. It’s called observation. We have observed “some people” post several times on this subject and their leaps of logic, jumped conclusions, and ill-informed opinions are available for all posters to see that “some people” do not have either medical qualifications or common sense to know when they sound like an opinionated loud mouthed fool. I look perfectly normal, but I had open heart surgery three weeks ago. I need a scooter to get around the store. Unless I had my shirt off, you could not tell unless I so informed you. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_Leigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@Jesse\_Leigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesse_Leigh)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/76 "2008-12-24T21:25:21Z")
[quote=“The\_Second\_Stone, post:75, topic:478106”] Yes, “some people” are incapable of making that determination. It’s called observation. We have observed “some people” post several times on this subject and their leaps of logic, jumped conclusions, and ill-informed opinions are available for all posters to see that “some people” do not have either medical qualifications or common sense to know when they sound like an opinionated loud mouthed fool. I look perfectly normal, but \*\*[SIZE=“3”]I had open heart surgery three weeks ago. I need a scooter to get around the store. Unless I had my shirt off, you could not tell unless I so informed you.[/[/SIZE]\*\*QUOTE] I think you should ask for your money back since your heart appears to be in need of a few more adjustments. Your compassion meter seems to be somewhat off kilter. - Jesse. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/77 "2008-12-24T22:40:44Z")
> [@Scarlett67](#): > > I said no such thing, and I’ll thank you not to put words in my mouth. > > My point, and that of several other people here, is that YOU CANNOT JUDGE whether someone is handicapped just by looking at them. Disabilities CAN BE INVISIBLE to the casual observer. That’s why we pay doctors the big bucks to diagnose us, instead of random strangers on the street. > > You wanna gripe about kids goofing around on scooters, fine. Go start your own thread, and I’ll happily join in and back you up. That’s not what this discussion is about. And how do you know the kids were goofing around? What divine skill do you have to make this judgment that I don’t? And does your doctor do a full spread of tests before prescribing medicine? As I said before, not every one of my observations would be correct but I’ll still be able to see a trend. You act like the ability to observe someone’s behavior and make an accurate prediction is difficult when it’s something people do every day. Pain is something that manifests itself in many ways by demeanor, range of motion, posture, speech etc…. By observing how someone picks up a product and puts it in their cart you can see how fast they move, how easily they move, and how much pain is involved. How they speak to those around them can indicate breathing problems and general state of mind. Hell, I’ve told people to go to the doctor after hearing 1 sentence of a phone conversation. This isn’t some random thought I decided to throw out, I’ve been watching the use of scooters for some time. It’s not a snap judgement made by glancing at someone, I actually spend time watching them shop. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/78 "2008-12-24T22:57:13Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I look perfectly normal, but I had open heart surgery three weeks ago. I need a scooter to get around the store. Unless I had my shirt off, you could not tell unless I so informed you. Everybody I know who had open heart surgery showed obvious manifestations of it. You could tell by their movement that they were in pain and were generally weak. When I throw my back out it’s pretty darn obvious I’ve done it. People with bone spurs on their feet wince when they stand up. I walk with a slight stoop because of a broken neck. You can tell quiet easily when I move around when it hurts. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/79 "2008-12-24T23:41:40Z")
[quote=“Jesse\_Leigh, post:76, topic:478106”] > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Yes, “some people” are incapable of making that determination. It’s called observation. We have observed “some people” post several times on this subject and their leaps of logic, jumped conclusions, and ill-informed opinions are available for all posters to see that “some people” do not have either medical qualifications or common sense to know when they sound like an opinionated loud mouthed fool. > > I look perfectly normal, but \*\*[SIZE=“3”]I had open heart surgery three weeks ago. I need a scooter to get around the store. Unless I had my shirt off, you could not tell unless I so informed you.[/[/SIZE]\*\*QUOTE] > > I think you should ask for your money back since your heart appears to be in need of a few more adjustments. Your compassion meter seems to be somewhat off kilter. - Jesse. I have very little compassion for busybody idiots who make judgments about other people when it is not their assigned job to make such judgments. Those people are ill-informed opinionated losers who interfere in the lives of strangers because they don’t have enough to do. Anyone who claims that they can tell that someone is in good health without doing a full medical examination is a blowhard ignorant fool who deserves to be derided and mocked. If I don’t have compassion for blowhard ignorant fools who force their opinions on others, then I am a sinner. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/80 "2008-12-25T15:21:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Everybody I know who had open heart surgery showed obvious manifestations of it. You could tell by their movement that they were in pain and were generally weak. When they are already riding the scooter? Bullshit. You are just making up excuses for your disgust at the sight of fat people. > [@](#): > > When I throw my back out it’s pretty darn obvious I’ve done it. People with bone spurs on their feet wince when they stand up. I walk with a slight stoop because of a broken neck. You can tell quiet easily when I move around when it hurts. And when my wife uses a scooter, how would you spot her pulmonary fibrosis which has reduced her lung capacity to less than 50% of normal? She has gained weight from the Prednisone she takes, so I already know what conclusion you would jump to. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106.md?page=5)