# Are Department Store Electric Scooters Monopolized by Non Handicapped Obese People? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 20, 2008, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106 "2008-12-20T19:45:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/81 "2008-12-25T23:21:39Z")
In addition to the long list of physical problems that usually goes hand in hand with the problems of being **morbidly** obese and the cause or causes of the eating disorder that leads one to eat compulsively (with or without a TV), carrying that much extra weight around in itself is debilitating. Imagine strapping twenty-five pound sacks of bird seed to your chest, your abdomen and 12 and a half pounds to each of your shins. Then strap on seventy-five more pounds to your upper back, your lower back and your calves. Walk for an hour. And then another hour and another. And the next day, you have to do it all over again. And that goes on for years – even decades. Maybe a lifetime. Would those weights become a disability for you? It seems silly to me to label you as “lazy” when you take advantage of a cart. Surely, an obese person may have contributed to his own problems, but the same is true for _some_ of the people who walk with canes too. We just never know, so why judge? I dropped the birdseed eleven years ago. If you haven’t “worn” it, you don’t know what it’s like. ---
**Author:** ![BigBertha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BigBertha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigBertha)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/82 "2008-12-26T03:34:02Z")
My friends child was told by the officer in their local grocery store to not use the scooter anymore even though she’d fallen and hurt her ankle the day before. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/83 "2008-12-26T10:07:11Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > When they are already riding the scooter? Bullshit. You are just making up excuses for your disgust at the sight of fat people. > > And when my wife uses a scooter, how would you spot her pulmonary fibrosis which has reduced her lung capacity to less than 50% of normal? She has gained weight from the Prednisone she takes, so I already know what conclusion you would jump to. I’ve never once mentioned overweight people. That was a stipulation of the original poster. Few of the people I’m referring too were overweight so you don’t know what conclusion I would have arrived at and my conclusions are not “jumped to”. Most of the time I observe people on scooters is in a grocery store so it’s just a matter of shopping behind them as they go. consider for a moment how much time you spend grocery shopping and that’s how much time I spend observing. If I time it right I can see them leave the store so I get to see how well they walk. Again, this is something I’ve actively done for 5 years, it’s not some random thought for internet discussion. If your wife had a lung capacity of less than 50% I would be able to hear it when she talks and see the distress in her movements. My mother was in the same shape. I won’t bore you with the details but I saw her loss of lung capacity progress over twenty years including lung resections. She is the reason I’ve been watching who rides on scooters. So next time your wife doesn’t have one available to use you can climb off your high horse and find a mirror to complain to. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/84 "2008-12-26T10:16:42Z")
> [@Tamara+](#): > > My friends child was told by the officer in their local grocery store to not use the scooter anymore even though she’d fallen and hurt her ankle the day before. Your friend makes her daughter do the grocery shopping with a bad ankle? Did she have trouble driving to the store? You’re going to have to be more specific on this for it to make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/85 "2008-12-26T11:33:18Z")
> [@](#): > > **Magiver** : I actually spend time watching them shop. > [@](#): > > Most of the time I observe people on scooters is in a grocery store so it’s just a matter of shopping behind them as they go. > [@](#): > > If I time it right I can see them leave the store so I get to see how well they walk. Again, this is something I’ve actively done for 5 years… I would think that store owners and managers would be even more upset about stalking behaviors. (Stalking is also on the increase.) They are not so much involved in determining the _reason_ that someone is stalking customers. It is the observable behavior that they are concerned with. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/86 "2008-12-26T11:56:27Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > I would think that store owners and managers would be even more upset about stalking behaviors. (Stalking is also on the increase.) They are not so much involved in determining the _reason_ that someone is stalking customers. It is the observable behavior that they are concerned with. :rolleyes: All I’m doing is buying groceries. The fact that I’m aware of my surroundings is hardly stalking. It’s hard to miss someone on a scooter when you go back and forth in the aisles. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/87 "2008-12-26T13:05:42Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If your wife had a lung capacity of less than 50% I would be able to hear it when she talks and see the distress in her movements. No you wouldn’t, not when she is in a scooter. It is undetecteable unless she is walking around. You are rationalizing your bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/88 "2008-12-26T14:07:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Gee I dunno, what is it about arthritis that prevents someone from walking but not swiveling around in a chair? I don’t know. Nothing? But you’re the one who said that you didn’t think someone could have emphysema or arthritis and be animatedly directing people. All people who can’t walk have to look pale and quiet and slumped over in their scooters? They can’t be alert and upbeat? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/89 "2008-12-26T14:46:34Z")
**Magiver** , I honestly think you should take out one of these scooters and use it to do your shopping. I think you will find that it’s not an indulgence, it’s a pain in the ass and has no appeal for anyone who isn’t seriously disabled. It just doesn’t make sense–it’s not logical. It’s like asking if some people get colostomy bags because they are too lazy to wipe. Now, I am willing to believe that there are some hypochondriacs out there that use the scooters because they have need to believe themselves to be and be perceived by others as being sick, or as sicker than they are. But that’s a lot more complicated of a motivation than simple laziness. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/90 "2008-12-26T15:09:56Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > It just doesn’t make sense–it’s not logical. It’s like asking if some people get colostomy bags because they are too lazy to wipe. Win. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/91 "2008-12-26T15:25:56Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Well… sometimes I wonder which came first with the fat folks on the scooters- the chicken or the egg. > > My dad is a good example. He’s 300+ lbs, but the reason that he’s on the scooter is because he has Parkinson’s, and has a hard time walking well some days. Granted, the Parkinson’s has more or less caused him to put on some weight, but if you see him walk, it’s not the usual fat, arthritic guy walk, but this sort of odd shuffle that I’ve only seen in other Parkinson’s sufferers. I I had a wheelchair bound coworker who was obese. After several years of working with him - after I’d met his family and felt I could ask impertinent questions - and late at night doing some sort of systems change we had the “disabled” conversation. He’d been a healthy fit 24 year old guy who got in a car crash, broke his back, and ended up in a wheelchair. Its possible to stay slim when you don’t get much exercise, but he hadn’t managed it (he was in his 40s by this time) - the weight had creeped up on him - middle age and being wheelchair bound is not exactly conducive to six pack abs. My brother in law is not disabled, but morbidly obese - and his weight makes exercise difficult, and with exercise being difficult loosing weight is difficult - its a vicious circle. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/92 "2008-12-26T16:59:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Obviously there are no absolutes but I stand by my observation that non-handicapped people are abusing the use of scooters in increasing numbers. You have not demonstrated that the scooters are reserved for use by handicapped people. In fact, the only solid evidence in this thread is the New York Times story which suggests that the store doesn’t attempt to diagnose medical need before allowing customers to use them — which, by the way, I already pointed out my first point, but which has so far been ignored. _The scooters are for the store to hand out to patrons as they (the store) sees fit. There is no state-required handicapped scooter signup sheet, or a Scooter Distribution Compliance Report._ If the scooters are not reserved solely for handicapped, they cannot be “abused” by the non-handicapped. Your premise is faulty. What’s next? Men won’t be allowed to buy tampons? Non-drinkers won’t be allowed to buy alcohol? White people won’t be allowed in the ethnic foods aisle? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/93 "2008-12-26T21:08:29Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > You have not demonstrated that the scooters are reserved for use by handicapped people. In fact, the only solid evidence in this thread is the New York Times story which suggests that the store doesn’t attempt to diagnose medical need before allowing customers to use them — which, by the way, I already pointed out my first point, but which has so far been ignored. > > _The scooters are for the store to hand out to patrons as they (the store) sees fit. There is no state-required handicapped scooter signup sheet, or a Scooter Distribution Compliance Report._ I’ve never said it was a question of law. I said it was a question of people abusing the scooters as a trend which takes away from those in need. If it continues it will eventually lead to stores requiring justification for the use of scooters. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/94 "2008-12-26T21:14:01Z")
Let me repeat: the scooters are for the store to hand out to patrons as they (the store) sees fit. Look at it from the store’s point of view: some customers would stay longer and buy more if it were easier to get around. Therefore, scooters are an investment that will reap rewards (viz, more sales). You’re the one alleging that the “purpose” (which you made up) is being “abused” (in your opinion). You have virtually no ground to stand on, and in fact your position (“scooters are for the handicapped”) has been disproven by the article. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/95 "2008-12-26T23:05:16Z")
> [@](#): > > What’s next? Men won’t be allowed to buy tampons? Non-drinkers won’t be allowed to buy alcohol? White people won’t be allowed in the ethnic foods aisle? Hey, just because I’m white doesn’t mean I’m not ethnic! That’s where they keep the borscht! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/96 "2008-12-27T01:42:45Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Let me repeat: the scooters are for the store to hand out to patrons as they (the store) sees fit. Look at it from the store’s point of view: some customers would stay longer and buy more if it were easier to get around. Therefore, scooters are an investment that will reap rewards (viz, more sales). > > You’re the one alleging that the “purpose” (which you made up) is being “abused” (in your opinion). You have virtually no ground to stand on, and in fact your position (“scooters are for the handicapped”) has been disproven by the article. No I’m the second person who alleged that. And I’m probably the only person in this discussion who’s actually watching people on scooters for any length of time. You keep posting a counter point to one I haven’t made. And while I’ve used the term handicapped to describe the user of a scooter I’ve never made a legal point regarding this. Obviously they’re a store sponsored amenity. That doesn’t negate their purpose for those in need. These are not cheese samples, they are an expensive item which limits their number. I’m glad that you think the world is all rosy and nice but it isn’t. Good for you. But there are people who think it’s OK to use scooters when they don’t need to just as there are people who think it’s OK to park in a handicapped parking space. They don’t disappear between the walk from the parking lot to the store. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/97 "2008-12-27T02:20:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > But there are people who think it’s OK to use scooters when they don’t need to just as there are people who think it’s OK to park in a handicapped parking space. They don’t disappear between the walk from the parking lot to the store. But they _don’t make shopping easier_–they just don’t. There may be a novelty factor that would appeal to teens on occasion, but for normal shopping–how is that possibly easier?! ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/98 "2008-12-27T04:46:10Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > But they _don’t make shopping easier_–they just don’t. There may be a novelty factor that would appeal to teens on occasion, but for normal shopping–how is that possibly easier?! They wouldn’t make shopping itself easier- at least not if the person on the scooter was alone. But do the stores provide any extra services to those using scooter/wheelchairs? I ask because someone I know once told me she rented one of those scooters on a trip to a theme park to avoid waiting on line- the park she went to had a policy of having visitors in wheelchairs/scooters ( and the rest of their party) enter rides through the exit and avoiding the line. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/99 "2008-12-27T06:58:48Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > But they _don’t make shopping easier_–they just don’t. There may be a novelty factor that would appeal to teens on occasion, but for normal shopping–how is that possibly easier?! I can’t answer why people do the things they do. Why would someone speed past me at 2 am across a double line only to turn left 1/2 block later? I dunno. You’d think they would look in the rear view mirror to see if there was a cop behind them before passing a car that was already exceeding the speed limit. People have waded into this thread with a lot of emotion but I don’t see any actual observations being made. All I’ve done is people-watch when the opportunity arises. With the exception of some kids that I busted for joyriding I haven’t said boo to anybody about anything. Societal behavior is a constantly changing phenomenon and I find it interesting to watch. I’ve watched many social situations for trends. Some grow and shrink for no apparent reason. We use to have problems with people setting off fire works during a public fire works event. It got worse over the years and then it faded. Couldn’t tell you why. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106/100 "2008-12-27T07:18:12Z")
> [@](#): > > **Magiver** : The fact that I’m aware of my surroundings is hardly stalking. Of course being aware of your surroundings isn’t stalking! Those who are shopping have to be aware of their surroundings or they would not be able to accomplish their purposes. And in no way do I want to imply that you are a stalker. > [@](#): > > This is something I’ve been consciously following for about the last 5 years. So, were you not aware of your surroundings until five years ago? What was it like before then? > [@](#): > > …I’m probably the only person in this discussion who’s actually watching people on scooters for any length of time. > [@](#): > > I’ve been watching the use of scooters for some time. It’s not a snap judgement made by glancing at someone, I actually spend time watching them shop. So you have to do more than just glancing at someone? You actually are _watching_ them closely enough that you won’t make a snap judgment. Remember, there are some store owners and managers who think they have some sort of special ability to observe a person’s “watching” behavior and know what is going on inside the watcher’s brain. Of course, they can’t really do that, but if the behavior fits a certain pattern they should just assume that they are correct and play it safe in order to protect the innocent customers. After all, _that’s their job_. > [@](#): > > But there are people who think it’s OK to use scooters when they don’t need to… And there are people who think it’s okay to get to be the one who determines if she or he needs a scooter. Coming soon to a location near you: a free country. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-department-store-electric-scooters-monopolized-by-non-handicapped-obese-people/478106.md?page=6)