# Are Diamonds About To Be Cheap? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 20, 2004, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-diamonds-about-to-be-cheap/246240 "2004-05-20T20:18:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![scout1222](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/34f0e0/32.png) [@scout1222](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scout1222)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-diamonds-about-to-be-cheap/246240/21 "2004-05-21T15:06:01Z")
> [@ponderer](#): > > Six months pay? Is that take home pay or is that gross salary? Hell, I’m apparently behind enough to think that it was TWO months’ salary. (Of course I always did wonder the same thing - gross or net?) ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-diamonds-about-to-be-cheap/246240/22 "2004-05-21T15:11:32Z")
> [@ponderer](#): > > Six months pay? Is that take home pay or is that gross salary? I was wondering the same thing…I heard that the rule of thumb is one to two months pay. I make good money, but 6 months pay (even take home) means that I should have bought my wife a $30,000 engagement ring. That’s a bit steep for someone who’s middle class. If it’s gross, then, damn…that’s almost half a house! I spent roughly $2,300 on my wife’s bridal set and got a good quality 3/4 carat total weight (1/2 carat main stone) ring set, 18k white gold, that’s beautiful, and not overstated. Of course, I got a great price because my sister worked at the store, but it wasn’t more than a 10-15% discount. I can’t imagine even spending 2 months salary on a ring. Plus, my wife would have killed me, then made me take it back if I’d spent more than about $3,000. ---
**Author:** ![hammerbach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hammerbach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hammerbach)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-diamonds-about-to-be-cheap/246240/23 "2004-05-21T17:27:54Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > I think that the fact that DeBeers has been stockpiling diamonds, keeping the supply low to drive up the price, has been an ‘open’ secret for years. I remember reading a sci-fi story, pre-Apollo, (probably pre-Sputnik,) that had as a plot point the main character going to the diamond cartel, (not named but probably a clear debeers reference,) and selling them the distribution rights to any and all lunar diamonds discovered by his space mission, should there be any… and hinting that if there were vast quantities and they didn’t buy up the rights now, their cash cow would be gone. That would be D.D. Harriman in Heinlien’s \* The man who sold the Moon\* from (I think) 1949. Badly outdated, but still on my top ten list. I love old sci-fi. . I think my wife’s engagement ring cost about $90. Not so much carats, more like turnips. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-diamonds-about-to-be-cheap/246240/24 "2004-05-21T18:37:16Z")
Why are we all focused, for the most part, on diamonds for personal use? There are a lot of things diamonds get used for that large companies would love to have get cheaper in value. I worked in a factory that used diamond grinding wheels, they were very expensive and I’m pretty sure that no one would care if they used fake or real diamonds just so long as they worked the same. I do know that they make fake grinding wheels, but from what I understand they do not work as well as real diamond flakes do. There will be huge markets for such items and I’m sure the value of diamonds will go down, unless of course people insist on having the “real thing”, which of course screws us guys. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-diamonds-about-to-be-cheap/246240/25 "2004-05-21T18:50:03Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Artificial diamonds of gem quality are [already in production](http://www.alanmillerjewelers.com/gemesis-cultured-diamonds.htm) - at the moment, they are only able to make coloured stones (but they are making this a selling point). I’m going to enhance your knowledge here **Mangetout**. It is true that Gemesis can only create colored stones, but Apollo Diamond has the patent to manufacture colorless gemstone quality diamonds. Please refer to the link in **yabob’s** post above. In that thread on the Unaboard I provide some information regarding Apollo Diamond. In the spirit of full disclosure I should mention that I am an investor in Apollo Diamond so my opinions are biased, but the facts are not. Apollo has no desire to mislead the general public. Apollo is working closely with DeBeers to ensure that the Apollo diamonds are easily distinguishable from natural mined diamonds. One plan is to microscopically laser inscribe a code onto the Apollo diamond. Apollo has no intent to deceive the buying public by passing off their diamonds as natural diamonds. They don’t need to. Their plan is to create a separate market for these perfect gemstones, which are true diamonds (as opposed to cubic zirconium). They’re working with marketing organizations to come up with a name and marketing scheme. It should be noted that the gemstone phase of this venture is not the end game. It is only the beginning. The real opportunity is in the techonological uses of these diamonds. From the literature I have… > [@](#): > > Diamond is an excellent semiconductor - carbon is closer to silicon than to any other element, and has many similarities in terms of its properties and structure. Diamond’s combination of silicon-like behavior plus the added benefits of durability, chemical resistance and high heat tolerance make it very attractive for use in electronics and optics for extreme operating conditions and very harsh environments. Diamond’s other excellent physical properties, such as very high thermal conductivity and wide band gap, also seem to make it the prefect material for devices such as power diodes and high-frequency field effect transistors. Diamond can operate without breaking down – at higher levels of voltage, power, and temperature (up to 700 C) than silicon or gallium arsenide. This also suggests that diamond circuits could be smaller and therefore faster. However, in its naturally occurring form, even the best diamonds have too many defects and impurities to be used for such electronics applications. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-diamonds-about-to-be-cheap/246240/26 "2004-05-21T19:22:45Z")
> [@Edward The Head](#): > > Why are we all focused, for the most part, on diamonds for personal use? There are a lot of things diamonds get used for that large companies would love to have get cheaper in value. I worked in a factory that used diamond grinding wheels, they were very expensive and I’m pretty sure that no one would care if they used fake or real diamonds just so long as they worked the same. I do know that they make fake grinding wheels, but from what I understand they do not work as well as real diamond flakes do. There will be huge markets for such items and I’m sure the value of diamonds will go down, unless of course people insist on having the “real thing”, which of course screws us guys. In fact, the long standing price fixing charges I alluded to above, which have kept DeBeers out of the US for 50 years, involved industrial diamonds. The suit has kept them from establishing any, well, “facet” of their business here, however. People are going to find the thought of huge reductions in gem grade stones, and wonderful new technological uses for cheap diamonds more interesting to talk about than the possibility of a reduction in the price of industrial grade diamonds for grinding wheels. Obviously, it matters if you are close to the industry, and might concievably have some eventual influence on the price of consumer goods, but it just doesn’t grab your attention the way the thought of gem grade diamonds cheap enough to be cereal box trinkets does. Even if that isn’t quite going to happen. I’ll put it this way - I wouldn’t be investing in any diamond mines these days. In addition to Russia and Canada, Australia’s been horning in on the act for the last couple of decades, too. The world’s most productive diamond mine is now the Australian Argyle mine, in fact. Argyle bailed out of the DeBeers cartel in 1996, and started selling directly. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-diamonds-about-to-be-cheap/246240/27 "2004-05-21T19:39:53Z")
> [@Edward The Head](#): > > Why are we all focused, for the most part, on diamonds for personal use? Well, the original post was pretty clearly talking about diamonds in personal jewelry, not industrial uses. 😉 That’s where _I_ took my cue from. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-diamonds-about-to-be-cheap/246240/28 "2004-05-21T20:32:36Z")
An important point: Man-made diamonds are _not_ “fake” diamonds. Cubic zirconium and rhinestone could be called fake diamonds, but man-made diamonds are diamonds, period. And personally, I think that sapphires would make better jewelry. Inherently more valuable (due to genuine rarity), and a good star sapphire is absolutely stunning. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-diamonds-about-to-be-cheap/246240/29 "2004-05-21T20:42:17Z")
> [@Jman](#): > > I make good money, but 6 months pay (even take home) means that I should have bought my wife a $30,000 engagement ring. That’s a bit steep for someone who’s middle class. If it’s gross, then, damn…that’s almost half a house! Not around here, it’s not. A modest house costs half a million. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-diamonds-about-to-be-cheap/246240/30 "2004-05-21T20:52:21Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > The world’s most productive diamond mine is now the Australian Argyle mine, in fact. Argyle bailed out of the DeBeers cartel in 1996, and started selling directly. I’ve have word that the Australian Argyle mine (which is a pit mine) is experiencing pit wall failures. This safety issue could potentially cause serious difficulties for Argyle, up to and including the possible shut down of the mine. Unfortunately I don’t have a cite because I cannot find any confirmation online. My information comes from the investment banking firm of Bear Stearns (which is handling some of the Apollo Diamond finances). And as an aside, Apollo Diamond is in the process of buying a company which will develop the MEMS and NEMS (micro- and nano-electromechanical systems – itty bitty switches) technology using Apollo manufactured diamonds. Cool stuff. ---
**Author:** ![35340](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/8baadc/32.png) [@35340](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/35340)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-diamonds-about-to-be-cheap/246240/31 "2004-05-21T20:54:43Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > Hmmm… just wondering now, if the price of diamonds crashes due to artificial imitations, will their place as the ‘six months’ salary engagement stone’ possibly be filled by artificial designer stones, created to appear even more remarkable than diamonds, in accordance with carefully designed trends?? “Show her she’s the only one in the universe for you— buy her a GALAXY SAPPHIRE… put all the stars in the night sky on her finger and she’ll love you forever.” > > 😃 I assumed the next big thing would be slicing off a digit and getting made a diamond for your lovely that is truely “from you”. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-diamonds-about-to-be-cheap/246240/32 "2004-05-21T21:07:53Z")
> [@Mynn](#): > > I assumed the next big thing would be slicing off a digit and getting made a diamond for your lovely that is truely “from you”. All I can say is… “Ewww!!” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-diamonds-about-to-be-cheap/246240/33 "2004-05-22T05:43:44Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I think you’re underestimating the invisible hand. In a free market, even with only two players on the supply side, it will be to one’s advantage to undercut the price of his rival by a little bit to increase his sales. Prices would inevitably spiral down. This seems like the most reasonable way my prediction would fail, but it still seems a bit unlikely. If given a choice to maintain profits or begin a process to inevitably risk them, I’d maintain them every time. All rational agents would. Of course, this is with the knowledge that all of the major players are coming from the traditional diamond industry, where people expect huge margins from the shiny gravel. If new startups are allowed to exist, things will go to hell. But suppliers just need to only sell to those with whom they have established business relationships, and this problem goes away. **LuckySevens** , **js\_africanus** , that’s not relevant. It’s better to have proven income than immediate cash. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-diamonds-about-to-be-cheap/246240.md?page=1)